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2014-12-30 2:26 PM


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Subject: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
I have a trainer and a spinerval dvd but I do not have/use a computer or heartrate sensor. My workouts consist of using the dvd interval and sprints, where I just go to a big cog for the sprint and then change and spin in an easy gear for the recovery. Ill also workout using specific times for the sprints(30s, 90s, 2min, 5min...)

my question is, since I cant track heartrate or cadence, are there any workouts or suggestions you can make for someone without a computer so I can still get a good trainer workout? While I know rearwheel computers are about $100, I just don't want to buy something else after buying a new bike, tires, pedals...

Thanks

Edited by sandcastle 2014-12-30 2:27 PM


2014-12-30 2:35 PM
in reply to: sandcastle

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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
You can use RPE (rate of perceived exertion). It's that scale 1-10 where you evaluate where you are at in terms of effort. A 1 would be "very light" up to 10 which would be maximum effort (like you can't go anymore). If you are willing to spend about $50-60 on a Garmin Speed/ Cadence Sensor, you could connect into Trainer Road for about $10/month. That will let you train with Virtual Power and give you a wide range of options for workouts.
2014-12-30 4:08 PM
in reply to: sandcastle

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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor

Originally posted by sandcastle I have a trainer and a spinerval dvd but I do not have/use a computer or heartrate sensor. My workouts consist of using the dvd interval and sprints, where I just go to a big cog for the sprint and then change and spin in an easy gear for the recovery. Ill also workout using specific times for the sprints(30s, 90s, 2min, 5min...) my question is, since I cant track heartrate or cadence, are there any workouts or suggestions you can make for someone without a computer so I can still get a good trainer workout? While I know rearwheel computers are about $100, I just don't want to buy something else after buying a new bike, tires, pedals... Thanks
Spending $ is all part of the game!

I too recommend searching for Ant+ speed sensors.  The Garmin GSC10 is an older speed & cadence unit that is about $45 these days on Amazon/eBay. Bontrager has a Speed only that sells for $35 on their site, shop around.  For using with a PC you'll also need the Ant+ USB stick such as this Suunto for $29. I also bought a used Bontrager Node2 Ant+ head unit on eBay for $65.  There's a new Node1 (no HRM) listed today for BIN $45.

When I first got my KK fluid trainer I tried the HR & RPE method of training and did'n't like it.  HR lags to much for intervals and RPE is day to day.  I switched to virtual power (VP) and have loved it, very objective, have been using for 4-5 years now.

No need to use TR and spend more money per month.  There are some free programs such as Golden Cheetah and a newer one that is referenced in a sticky post above that includes the BT Winter Cycling plan.  If your trainer is supported and you have Ant+ / PC you can use VP, and IMHO get a more effective workout.  At some point there has to be more to training than hitting intervals hard all the time.

 

 

2014-12-30 6:19 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
Buy a few Sufferfest videos. They go by perceived effort (1-10 where your heart explodes at 10). They are challenging.
2014-12-30 7:13 PM
in reply to: sandcastle


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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
I should have also said I really don't understand all that you are saying either. If I buy the garmin mentioned above, don't I still need the computer for it? Also And does that run off the rear wheel? I do have a cateye wireless but it is on the front wheel of mountain bike and I don't think if I put it on the rear wheel of my road bike it would sync while on the KK? Or would it? Also, what is VP and how does that work?

Sorry for all this, like everything road and tri related, it keeps getting more and more complicated while getting more and more expensive...
2014-12-31 1:31 AM
in reply to: sandcastle

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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
Originally posted by sandcastle

I should have also said I really don't understand all that you are saying either. If I buy the garmin mentioned above, don't I still need the computer for it? Also And does that run off the rear wheel? I do have a cateye wireless but it is on the front wheel of mountain bike and I don't think if I put it on the rear wheel of my road bike it would sync while on the KK? Or would it? Also, what is VP and how does that work?

Sorry for all this, like everything road and tri related, it keeps getting more and more complicated while getting more and more expensive...


I am not an expert at all in this area, but I hope I can offer a little help.
I get the financial concern, and am in a similar situation

The cadence / speed sensor discussed is a device that uses a wheel magnet and captures the revolutions of the rear wheel / and or the crank, sends the information via ant+ wireless signal to a computer, either your laptop or desktop. You will need the usb stick, mentioned earlier, to read the ant+ signal and input it into your laptop/desktop pc.

Now, using either the paid subscription to Trainer Road (an online service that installs a program onto your pc, and helps set training intervals etc) OR one of the free programs (as mentioned earlier, the one at the top of the page called Maximum Trainer, or another program called Golden Cheetah, etc) the info from the speed sensor can be shown on your computer giving you a power reading called Virtual Power. It might not be completely accurate, but many consider it to be very usable. Not only is it displayed, but is recorded and can later be analyzed...

If you also have a heart rate sensor that works on ant+ technology, your heart rate will also be shown. All of this info can be recorded, showing you your performance (power output) in relation to your heart rate.

If you do not have access to this, or the financial ability or will to go this route, then Old School HR monitoring can be done - the finger on the neck while on a break right after a hard interval.... which is the way it was done waaay back
Using a wrist watch, take HR for six seconds, multiply by 10 and you have your HR.

You can use the spinerval you have, you can follow a plan here on BT - there are cycle plans, there is the BT cycle build plan, there are posts that discuss the 2x20 min intervals based on your 20 min FTP (search BT for the protocol to test for that).

DanielG posted a few youtube videos that I have been using. They have a short warmup, a series of intervals and rest periods, then a cool down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSFYRiqodvU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M45BSE6Qz3E

I hope this is helpful, and not even more confusing.


2014-12-31 8:54 AM
in reply to: sandcastle

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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor

Originally posted by sandcastle I should have also said I really don't understand all that you are saying either. If I buy the garmin mentioned above, don't I still need the computer for it?
The computer, or head unit, for the bike will be needed for outdoor riding.  So if you are not doing any of that right now (trainer only) then that can be an expense later on.  The Bontrager Node 1 computer I mentioned before is probably the cheapest ANT+ computer going (at least it was last year when I was researching & buying all this).

Also And does that run off the rear wheel?
Yes the Garmin GSC10 (or any speed sensor) mounts on the left chain stay as shown in this picture.  The magnet on the rear wheel spoke is for the speed and the magnet on the crank arm by the pedal is for the cadence.

I do have a cateye wireless but it is on the front wheel of mountain bike and I don't think if I put it on the rear wheel of my road bike it would sync while on the KK? Or would it?
Maybe, I had an older Cateye wireless CPU and it was mounted on my rear wheel.  The issue was that it was not ANT+ wireless protocol so it could not be used with a PC to read the speed. 

Also, what is VP and how does that work?
Above you mentioned KK, do you have the Road Machine model which is fluid based?

Virtual power is the use of the trainers resistance unit's Speed vs Wattage curve to determine the power at a given speed.  KK published their curve and has been know to be very stable. There is a basic "calibration" you can do to ensure that every time you hookup and ride that the resistance curve is about the same, as it does depend on the tension used to press the roller up against the tire.  When the resistance unit is cold it should take about 11.5 to 12 seconds to spin down from 20 mph to 0 mph.  After 10 ' or so of warm-up the internal fluid will temperature stabilize and the spindown will take about 2 seconds longer.  The 13.5-14sec window has been stated to be what the curve below is based on.  So its a simple procedure. 

  1. Pump up your tire to whatever it is you use (I use a dedicated trainer tire at ~ 105 PSI)
  2. Tighten the tension knob to 2.5 turns or 5 half turns (I leave my tension set when bike is on the trainer)
  3. Get on and spin up to 20mph then let it coast and manually time how long it takes for the wheel to stop spinning
  4. Adjust tension if necessary and recheck

Sorry for all this, like everything road and tri related, it keeps getting more and more complicated while getting more and more expensive...

The good thing about going ANT+ is that it (and Bluetooth) is the communication method for a lot of the cycling world now and has worked its way down into the cheaper components like the Bontrager Node 1 I mentioned before.

 

 

2014-12-31 2:37 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
I agree with Trio, when money is a real issue, use a stopwatch or even a clock in the house with second hand and good old fashioned self-monitored Heart Rate measuring. Do hard intervals and monitor your heart rate every 5-10 minutes or so. You'll only stop pedaling 5-15 seconds (up to you how quickly & accurately you read) to gather Heart Rate info. Have a plan going into the workout and go off the HR feedback. All in all this won't cost you a dime extra
2014-12-31 7:48 PM
in reply to: #5077923


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Subject: RE: Using Trainer without computer or heartrate monitor
Awsome, awesome info! Really appreciate the help
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