General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I Going About Training All Wrong? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2015-09-29 7:05 PM


18

Subject: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
I'm very new to endurance sports, and as such my endurance is really bad for my age/athleticism. I've been swimming/biking/running these past 3 weeks solid, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm going about it all wrong. A couple of points:

- I bought a Garmin 910XT w/ HRM to aid my training
- I've been using it on the bike and run but not the swim because I am barely swimming 50m at a time right now
- I upload all my data after each session and now that I'm looking at my heart rate I'm wondering if I'm training wrong.

I'm 5'9 175lbs around 10% bodyfat. I have a lot of lean mass (arguably) but what concerns me is my average heart rate for my running has been around 160bpm, and for the bike it's been around 155bpm. My average run with that rate is 3.04m and for the bike 13m.

Am I exerting too much energy? Can anything be said without knowing my MHR and RHR? I've been trying to read up on HR for training but I thought I would ask first. I'm trying to compete in my first sprint early next year hopefully, and I don't want to be spinning my wheels until then because so far I don't feel much more conditioned from when I first started 3 weeks ago.


2015-09-29 7:21 PM
in reply to: manimal


82
252525
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
For starters - welcome and congrats on your decision to enter endurance sports.

Without knowing your age, there's not much anyone can help you with on target HRs, please provide.

Lastly - you've only been training 3 weeks, you aren't supposed to see significant benefits/progress just yet.

Give it more like 3 months.
2015-09-29 7:31 PM
in reply to: H2OhNo


18

Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
Sorry, I'm 29.

I guess I'm used to picking up on things really fast and progressing easily. I'm not saying that I'm bad at any one of these disciplines yet, I know I just need time, but I guess I just thought that after running 3miles 3x a week for 3 weeks that I would feel a little better about it, LOL.
2015-09-29 8:00 PM
in reply to: #5143934

User image


1570
10005002525
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
When I first started running it took me 2 months to do 3 miles..
The training you are doing is something new for your body, so give yourself a little credit and take it easy
You are preparing for sprint distance that will happen in few months - you have time. If you already do bike and run distance, then I would suggest focus on swimming.
Good luck! You will do great
Mary

PS I cannot speak about HR. I never measure mine.
2015-09-29 8:18 PM
in reply to: manimal

User image

Regular
585
500252525
Pueblo, Colorado
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
Keep training. It does take time to build up the conditioning. HR is a good tool, but keep in mind it's not always consistent. A lack of sleep, stress at work, something you ate or drank and when you did so, can all impact your heart rate. In addition to HR, pay attention to how you are feeling. Try doing some of your runs at a slower pace and consider walking for a minute every half mile or so. See if it makes a difference in how you feel. If you can learn about how you feel during exercise, you will be set up for better performance down the road. Good luck!
2015-09-29 8:25 PM
in reply to: marysia83

User image

Pro
15621
500050005000500100
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?

Just curious.....if you are 29 years old and otherwise healthy, and have just started out with "endurance sports" with no baseline for what your current fitness is, why are you wearing a HR monitor and what do you hope to get out of it?  If I were you.....and I have been.....I would simply use RPE (rated perceived exertion) and keep my runs/rides somewhere in the 2-4 area.  RPE is a scale of 0-10 with 0 being noting and 10 being very, very heavy exertion.  2 is light, 3 is moderate, 4 is moderately heavy. Depending on where you look for information on RPE you may get slight variances in the scale numbers......but you get the idea. Google it and become familiar with RPE......in endurance sports it is usually your best friend.

For now, run very easy......a 2 would be fine.  You can bike a bit heavier because it's not nearly as load bearing as running, but even your bikes should stay somewhere in the 4-6 range for now.

9 miles of running per week for 3 weeks isn't much running......what I mean is that it's fine for starting out, but you are looking for gains and changes that happen over a course of months and years.....not weeks. 

This is not weightlifting.



2015-09-29 8:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


18

Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
Thanks for the replies. I agree I should pay a little more attention to how I feel during/after my sessions,which I kind of have been. At the moment I'm currently only really using my HRM to keep a log in case I want to go back and see if there is a correlation between my HR and something else that I'm questioning. I think I will look more into the RPE, that's part of what I made this thread so that I could get some good advice like that. I'm not foreign to forums, but to be honest although this forum is somewhat partitioned there is a very big portion of it thrown together so it's a bit much to look through.

Thanks again.
2015-10-01 3:26 PM
in reply to: manimal


701
500100100
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
Originally posted by manimal

Thanks for the replies. I agree I should pay a little more attention to how I feel during/after my sessions,which I kind of have been. At the moment I'm currently only really using my HRM to keep a log in case I want to go back and see if there is a correlation between my HR and something else that I'm questioning. I think I will look more into the RPE, that's part of what I made this thread so that I could get some good advice like that. I'm not foreign to forums, but to be honest although this forum is somewhat partitioned there is a very big portion of it thrown together so it's a bit much to look through.

Thanks again.


I've just now started dabbling with RPE.
As a completer, not a competer, my pursuits have been pretty laid back. The training plan I used for my first 70.3 was even less heady. "45 minutes of moderate biking with 5 one minute periods of really hard effort" or "swim x meters with a main set of x meters, go faster than yesterday on the main set"

Then again, I wouldn't hesitate to log that data. I wouldn't necessarily use it this shortly in, but it might be really fun to look at down the road. Especially if you geek out on numbers and trends. I geek out on numbers, even if they don't mean anything. I wish I would have tracked more things when I lost 100+ lbs, instead of just lbs. It would have been fun to have inches off waist, body fat, resting heart rate (not bad to know anytime for things beyond use in fitness) and such. I didn't have starting points on most of that data.
2015-10-01 4:12 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Master
2713
2000500100100
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
Welcome to the sport! Training by heart rate is a pretty good way to get your training done efficiently and you don't need your age to figure that out, just the equipment you already have.

This article will explain everything you need to know to get your zones:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...

You can also spend some money at a lab to get your LTHR but the field tests get pretty close.

After you get your LTHR, use the BT calculators to get your zones.

=^.^=
Roland

Edited by kloofyroland 2015-10-01 4:12 PM
2015-10-01 4:14 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Master
2713
2000500100100
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Just curious.....if you are 29 years old and otherwise healthy, and have just started out with "endurance sports" with no baseline for what your current fitness is, why are you wearing a HR monitor and what do you hope to get out of it?  If I were you.....and I have been.....I would simply use RPE (rated perceived exertion) and keep my runs/rides somewhere in the 2-4 area.  RPE is a scale of 0-10 with 0 being noting and 10 being very, very heavy exertion.  2 is light, 3 is moderate, 4 is moderately heavy. Depending on where you look for information on RPE you may get slight variances in the scale numbers......but you get the idea. Google it and become familiar with RPE......in endurance sports it is usually your best friend.

For now, run very easy......a 2 would be fine.  You can bike a bit heavier because it's not nearly as load bearing as running, but even your bikes should stay somewhere in the 4-6 range for now.

9 miles of running per week for 3 weeks isn't much running......what I mean is that it's fine for starting out, but you are looking for gains and changes that happen over a course of months and years.....not weeks. 

This is not weightlifting.




This too.
2015-10-02 10:27 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Extreme Veteran
1234
100010010025
West Michigan
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Just curious.....if you are 29 years old and otherwise healthy, and have just started out with "endurance sports" with no baseline for what your current fitness is, why are you wearing a HR monitor and what do you hope to get out of it?  If I were you.....and I have been.....I would simply use RPE (rated perceived exertion) and keep my runs/rides somewhere in the 2-4 area.  RPE is a scale of 0-10 with 0 being noting and 10 being very, very heavy exertion.  2 is light, 3 is moderate, 4 is moderately heavy. Depending on where you look for information on RPE you may get slight variances in the scale numbers......but you get the idea. Google it and become familiar with RPE......in endurance sports it is usually your best friend.

For now, run very easy......a 2 would be fine.  You can bike a bit heavier because it's not nearly as load bearing as running, but even your bikes should stay somewhere in the 4-6 range for now.

9 miles of running per week for 3 weeks isn't much running......what I mean is that it's fine for starting out, but you are looking for gains and changes that happen over a course of months and years.....not weeks. 

This is not weightlifting.

I don't always agree with LB, but when I do, I agree whole heartedly!  

For years I trained with a HR monitor paying close attention to my zones (I did the LT testing to establish accurate max HR, re-tested every ~4-6 months) and in my opinion I undertrained as a result.  I had a guy at my gym CONSTANTLY telling me to scrap the strap and use RPE and finally I did and never looked back.

I'm in no way saying HR training is wrong, I will say it is a tool and used incorrectly it can be a limiter.

 

 



2015-10-02 10:39 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image


8763
5000200010005001001002525
Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Just curious.....if you are 29 years old and otherwise healthy, and have just started out with "endurance sports" with no baseline for what your current fitness is, why are you wearing a HR monitor and what do you hope to get out of it?  If I were you.....and I have been.....I would simply use RPE (rated perceived exertion) and keep my runs/rides somewhere in the 2-4 area.  RPE is a scale of 0-10 with 0 being noting and 10 being very, very heavy exertion.  2 is light, 3 is moderate, 4 is moderately heavy. Depending on where you look for information on RPE you may get slight variances in the scale numbers......but you get the idea. Google it and become familiar with RPE......in endurance sports it is usually your best friend.

For now, run very easy......a 2 would be fine.  You can bike a bit heavier because it's not nearly as load bearing as running, but even your bikes should stay somewhere in the 4-6 range for now.

9 miles of running per week for 3 weeks isn't much running......what I mean is that it's fine for starting out, but you are looking for gains and changes that happen over a course of months and years.....not weeks. 

This is not weightlifting.

 

Left Brain has some great questions for you - what do you want to get out of using the HRM?

My advice, and LB will probably cringe, but use the HRM along with the RPE - go to the track, if you have one nearby, on a cool morning- not when it's 100F. Run about 3-4 miles at what you would consider 'easy' - on a scale of 1-10 it would be a 5 or 6. Pick a pace you could run all day and or have a conversation with someone. Check your average HR for that run and then use that as a guideline for your 'easy' runs. Once you have some fitness - 6 weeks or so - add in some 20-30 second pick ups - you'll just pick up the pace a bit - and then go right back to your normal pace. Nothing like a sprint, just think of running something somewhat hard, but certainly, no where near -' all out'.
And the best thing you can do is get a plan here on the website - there are plenty of free ones that are very good!

I hope this helps a bit.

2015-10-02 1:02 PM
in reply to: mikericci

User image

Pro
6005
50001000
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?

Originally posted by mikericci

Originally posted by Left Brain

Just curious.....if you are 29 years old and otherwise healthy, and have just started out with "endurance sports" with no baseline for what your current fitness is, why are you wearing a HR monitor and what do you hope to get out of it?  If I were you.....and I have been.....I would simply use RPE (rated perceived exertion) and keep my runs/rides somewhere in the 2-4 area.  RPE is a scale of 0-10 with 0 being noting and 10 being very, very heavy exertion.  2 is light, 3 is moderate, 4 is moderately heavy. Depending on where you look for information on RPE you may get slight variances in the scale numbers......but you get the idea. Google it and become familiar with RPE......in endurance sports it is usually your best friend.

For now, run very easy......a 2 would be fine.  You can bike a bit heavier because it's not nearly as load bearing as running, but even your bikes should stay somewhere in the 4-6 range for now.

9 miles of running per week for 3 weeks isn't much running......what I mean is that it's fine for starting out, but you are looking for gains and changes that happen over a course of months and years.....not weeks. 

This is not weightlifting.

 

Left Brain has some great questions for you - what do you want to get out of using the HRM?

My advice, and LB will probably cringe, but use the HRM along with the RPE - go to the track, if you have one nearby, on a cool morning- not when it's 100F. Run about 3-4 miles at what you would consider 'easy' - on a scale of 1-10 it would be a 5 or 6. Pick a pace you could run all day and or have a conversation with someone. Check your average HR for that run and then use that as a guideline for your 'easy' runs. Once you have some fitness - 6 weeks or so - add in some 20-30 second pick ups - you'll just pick up the pace a bit - and then go right back to your normal pace. Nothing like a sprint, just think of running something somewhat hard, but certainly, no where near -' all out'.
And the best thing you can do is get a plan here on the website - there are plenty of free ones that are very good!

I hope this helps a bit.

My opinion is similar.  I like new athletes to train for about a month with RPE, but wear their HR monitor to begin learning how the two correlate.  It's the beginning of developing awareness of how the different intensities feel, and ultimately preparing them for the inevitable day that the monitor dies during a race, and they just shrug it off and run their race.

 

2015-10-02 4:41 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

User image


8763
5000200010005001001002525
Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?

Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by mikericci

Originally posted by Left Brain

Just curious.....if you are 29 years old and otherwise healthy, and have just started out with "endurance sports" with no baseline for what your current fitness is, why are you wearing a HR monitor and what do you hope to get out of it?  If I were you.....and I have been.....I would simply use RPE (rated perceived exertion) and keep my runs/rides somewhere in the 2-4 area.  RPE is a scale of 0-10 with 0 being noting and 10 being very, very heavy exertion.  2 is light, 3 is moderate, 4 is moderately heavy. Depending on where you look for information on RPE you may get slight variances in the scale numbers......but you get the idea. Google it and become familiar with RPE......in endurance sports it is usually your best friend.

For now, run very easy......a 2 would be fine.  You can bike a bit heavier because it's not nearly as load bearing as running, but even your bikes should stay somewhere in the 4-6 range for now.

9 miles of running per week for 3 weeks isn't much running......what I mean is that it's fine for starting out, but you are looking for gains and changes that happen over a course of months and years.....not weeks. 

This is not weightlifting.

 

Left Brain has some great questions for you - what do you want to get out of using the HRM?

My advice, and LB will probably cringe, but use the HRM along with the RPE - go to the track, if you have one nearby, on a cool morning- not when it's 100F. Run about 3-4 miles at what you would consider 'easy' - on a scale of 1-10 it would be a 5 or 6. Pick a pace you could run all day and or have a conversation with someone. Check your average HR for that run and then use that as a guideline for your 'easy' runs. Once you have some fitness - 6 weeks or so - add in some 20-30 second pick ups - you'll just pick up the pace a bit - and then go right back to your normal pace. Nothing like a sprint, just think of running something somewhat hard, but certainly, no where near -' all out'.
And the best thing you can do is get a plan here on the website - there are plenty of free ones that are very good!

I hope this helps a bit.

My opinion is similar.  I like new athletes to train for about a month with RPE, but wear their HR monitor to begin learning how the two correlate.  It's the beginning of developing awareness of how the different intensities feel, and ultimately preparing them for the inevitable day that the monitor dies during a race, and they just shrug it off and run their race.

 

 

And BINGO ^ - the HRM will die and you'll need to know RPE or you up a creek sans the paddle! Great point Don

2015-10-03 12:32 PM
in reply to: mikericci


18

Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
thanks everyone.

So I've been wearing the HRM still but I don't, and haven't, pay attention while I'm actually in my workout. So I guess in theory I've been using RPE all along, I just look back at my HR after I load my data.

With that said, I've been paying more attention to my RPE during my last bike and run and here are my findings so far:

Bike - I rode 15 miles the other day at a very easy pace, I actually had to slow myself down sometimes because my legs just started spinning faster. The result was an average of 15mph, and my average HR was 140bpm. I felt fine afterwards, I hardly even broke a sweat. In this case I feel like using the RPE was a really good thing to do.

Run - I ran 3.14 miles, at a very easy pace, I almost felt like I was standing still. I averaged a 10:54 mile, and after I felt ok. It wasn't a great run all together, but my my RPE seemed to be nearly as easy as I could have possibly ran. Any slower and I would have been walking.

My question is, is that even a good thing? I feel like I was going so slow that I wasn't actually benefiting from it, or even gaining any conditioning.

Thanks again for all of the advice
2015-10-03 2:26 PM
in reply to: manimal

User image


8763
5000200010005001001002525
Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?

Manimal

This is ALL good. At this point if you are still new to endurance training you are absolutely doing the right thing.

Going easy is helping your body adjust to the stress of training without over doing it. Now, if you want, you should think about moving the runs up a bit - to say 40 minutes - and add  5 minutes each week to your longest run of the week. If this week was 33-35 minutes, next week could be 40, and the week after could be 45 and so on. For the bike, it's the same principle: Move the bike up 10-15 minutes per week. Whatever feels like easy is fine, but if you want to attack a hill on the run of bike, you can do that.

Once you get in a few weeks of training, we can help you insert some harder efforts into your training.

Happy training!

 



2015-10-03 5:41 PM
in reply to: mikericci


18

Subject: RE: Am I Going About Training All Wrong?
thans Mike. Originally that's what I was doing. Each week I was adding 10 minutes to the run and bike. I was running up to an hour long, but I think it was too soon for that because my feet were hurting, and my knees were starting to bother me so I backed off to what I'm running now and I'm not really hurting anymore. So I'll continue to do this for another couple of weeks and then slowly start adding more.

At this point should I be focusing on time or distance? I've been aiming to run a 5k each run day and just taking it easy until it feel like cake to run the 5k. Same for the bike, I've been riding 15 miles and I want to keep doing it at an easy pace until it becomes super easy. Is that a good approach?

Tomorrow is my brick, 30 min ride/30 min run

Thanks again!
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I Going About Training All Wrong? Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

What went wrong? (bad training ride)

Started by furiousferret
Views: 1808 Posts: 19

2011-07-01 11:33 AM tkd.teacher

Trainer: What am I doing wrong?

Started by Rennick
Views: 817 Posts: 5

2005-12-14 12:46 PM CindyK

Cycling training: am i doing it all wrong? Pages: 1 2

Started by Renee
Views: 2533 Posts: 27

2005-08-09 10:12 AM Renee

What am I doing wrong - swimming

Started by See Mom Run
Views: 1645 Posts: 20

2005-03-24 10:52 PM mikericci

HR on Run...Am I doing something wrong?

Started by swgtri
Views: 1295 Posts: 9

2005-02-24 10:51 AM Steve-
RELATED ARTICLES
date : October 20, 2008
author : Nancy Clark
comments : 0
People who range from casual exercisers to competitive athletes are eating at the wrong times, choosing the wrong balance of carbohydrates, protein, and fat, and drinking too little fluids.
 
date : May 5, 2008
author : TriPainter
comments : 1
I went into the pool area (as this was a pool swim) and got body marked. That's when it hit me that I was there to race - this was not a clinic.
date : July 5, 2005
author : bflrich
comments : 1
What makes the difference between success and failure is not how often you fall but how often you rise. Next time you’re chewing that second cookie and you realize it’s not what you planned on...STOP!