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Low back pain on bike
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 2016-10-09 5:00 PM |
 233   Ventura, California |  Subject: Low back pain on bikeI have recently been getting some low back pain on the bike. This will come on in the beginning of the ride and then go away after say 10ish miles. It is a fairly mild pain that is irritating but not debilitating. Riding flat or climbing makes no difference, it is very consistent. Once it goes away, its gone, doesn't matter 20, 45, or 60 mile rides. I would like to nip it in the bud before it creates any real problems from developing like a pinched nerve, etc and its just annoying and unnecessary. It started recently after a bike fit was done in which the seat was moved up and forward. (about 5cm up and a few forward) The simple solution would be just to move the seat back where it was, but the fit actually appears to have helped in a critical way and that is bike stability. I believe this is due to shifting my weight forward and putting more weight over the handlebars. I was getting scary speed shakes about 50mph, that seems to have gone away. I do feel more comfortable/confident for the moment after several rides where I have clipped some pretty good speeds in the 45-50mph range. My perceived solution I have in mind is to go to a longer stem to 'stretch' the back to where it was originally before the seat was moved forward, this would also get even more weight over the bars. The current stem is approx. 100mm. I see they make stems in 110, 120, and 130. My problem is since this is a 27yr old bike I would have to buy a quill conversion to threadless stem, then the stem itself, and then since all the stems are for modern bikes, I have to purchase new handle bars, and bar tape, etc... and the cost just kinda ramps up..... Perhaps I should just do some stretches before getting on the damn thing, Thoughts, recommendations??
Edited by rjcalhoun 2016-10-09 5:03 PM |
| 2016-10-10 10:34 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
| 467 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike It seems counter intuitive to me that moving forward and up on the saddle would make the bike more stable, it always makes me less stable to be forward. Anyway, you might want to try moving back to the original position for a ride or two just to see if that is the cause of your back pain . . . at least you'll know then. |
| 2016-10-10 11:27 AM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
Member 1748  Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike You moved up 5cm all at once, that is huge! that's almost 2inches. I'm not saying its not the right position but you need to adjust. You should mark/measure everything very well now before making any adjustments. Once marked I would suggest you drop back down some. Most people would suggest not moving more than 1cm up at a time. Try to get to the 5cm increase in at least 2 to 3 adjustments with a week or two at each position. Also the position your fitter put you in may never be good for you, he may have closed up your hip angle too much putting you in a good aero position but not a comfortable one. If that is the case you could try shorter cranks, which would open you hip angle up at the higher seat position. As for stability, it has not increased at all. By changing the system geometry (your position on the bike), he has changed the resonate frequency of the bike. This has resulted(in your case) in eliminated the bike shakes around 45-50mph. In you old bike position you could have done this yourself by clamping the top bar with your knees while riding at that speed. Basically some bike get the shakes above 40mph(usually) and some don't. The older smaller tube bikes had more issues with this then the newer larger diameter tube(or shaped tube) bikes do. |
| 2016-10-10 4:46 PM in reply to: mike761 |
| 233 Ventura, California | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike Thank you both for your replies. In regards to moving forward or back for stability, I used to move my rump off the back of the seat and tuck in low on my descents when I would end up with the shakes, being more forward seems to help much more then moving rearward. See quote and link included below. Also I seem to have misspoke, so my apologies. The seat was moved upward 5mm not cm. Interesting that Mike from PA mentions hip angle and going to a shorter crank. In addition to the bike fit, I also installed a set of 172.5mm cranks from my previous 170mm crankset. Regarding the hip angle, since my crank throw is longer by 2.5mm and my seat was raised 5mm, the leg angles would be essentially compensated for, but being higher in the saddle with the handle bars untouched this would as you say close the hip angle. If I raised the handle bars say 5mm, do you think this could have an positive effect on opening the hip angle? Dropping the seat may help open up the hip angle but could then mess with leg angles. But in the mean time I will drop the seat back down and give it a whirl. Next year I will be shopping for a more modern bike, but for now I like working with this older one because I am learning alot from having to upgrade and work with it to get the optimal position and to keep seeing continued improvement in my riding performance. Thanks for engaging me in the conversation. Also in regards to the being rearward helps stability issue, I followed these tips and moving forward and lifting my arse just off the seat seems to have really helped. Incorrect weight distribution is a very common cause of speed wobble. Quite often, speed wobble has just as much to do with the rider as it does with the bike. If speed wobble starts occurring, many people will intuitively put their weigh towards the back of the bike instead of putting their weight towards the front to actually stop it and dampen it out. The best thing to do to get out of a wobble is to weight one of your legs down at the 6/12 o’clock position, put some weight on the front end by bending your elbows (use soft hands – don’t grip handlebars firmly!), and take some weight off your seat (to take the pivot point away) which puts more weight back on the handlebars, which puts more weight on the front wheel. This will usually bring stability back to the bike and correct the oscillation. The reason it’s suggested that the pedals be in the 6/12 o’clock position (rather than the 3/9 o’clock position) is because this will bring your body weight into a better balanced position which will calm the bike down. http://cyclingtips.com/2011/03/speed-wobble-when-the-bike-shakes-its-head/ |
| 2016-10-10 7:27 PM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
Coach 9167  Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike your fitter moved the seat up and forward (5mm up, ??mm forward) without changing the stem...in theory the distnace to the handlebars should still be the same (depending on how many mm forward it was moved). When you move a saddle up 5mm, you are also moving it back because the seat tube is sloped back a bit. So sliding it forward keeps the distance to the handlebars similar. It also opens up the hip angle and extends the knee more, possibly allowing you to access better power from your legs in a slightly more aero angle. I'm curious...idd you lengthen the cranks on your own after the fit or was that recommended by the fitter? Lengthening by 2.5mm increases the diameter of your pedal stroke by 5mm...the same distance the seat was raised. At the bottom of your stroke you're 7.5mm more extended and at the top 2.5mm more closed than you would be if you'd kept hte same cranks. When fitting a bike there is a certain order to the operations. I'm not a bike fitter, but it's an interest in mine. It sounds liek this is an older road style bike. Stems can be changed out but with the quill stem you're working with older technology. Using an adaptor to add a longer stem is goign to put more leverage on parts that may not be "willing" to handle the load including the headset & headtube, depending on the condition of the bike. Can you go back to the same fitter and let him know what you are experiencing? Did you make any changes to the saddle itself? Do you roll your pelvis forward at all or are you on the sit bones creating more roundedness of the low back? |
| 2016-10-10 9:29 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 233 Ventura, California | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike Suzanne, thank you for responding and providing your insights. I had not taken into account the seat going up and forward being relatively the same distance to the bars, but its obvious once you brought it up. One thing I noticed in regard to the bike fit was the fitter was only interested in my leg angles. I asked him about the handle bars and he said nothing and just kinda deflected. When I told him I spend abit of time in the drop bars and he said that would have no effect. In regards to the cranks, I changed them just days before the bike fit in the belief that I would be able to push more power to the pedals. You are also correct in that it is an older road bike. It is a 1988 Peugeot 'Triathlon', although it is not a 'Tri' bike. It is in great condition and made from excellent materials so I would like to assume that it could handle quill adapter and slightly extended stem. You bring up a interesting point in regards to sitting on the sit bones, or rolling the pelvis forward. My answer is it depends, If I am more upright in a relaxed position with hands on the top of the handlebar I am most definitely on the sit bones, when I am more aggressive and in the drops I am not on the sit bones and this is actually when I feel best on the bike; although it does get tiring after some period of time. I also do not have the most slender of mid sections unfortunately. And yes, I can and will talk to my fitter tomorrow and see what they say or schedule a refit. Edited by rjcalhoun 2016-10-10 9:32 PM (IMG_3265[1].JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_3265[1].JPG (2001KB - 39 downloads) |
| 2016-10-11 3:01 PM in reply to: rjcalhoun |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike Ok, you had said 5 cm in your original post. 5 mm is no big deal. first your thought on the crank length is wrong. If you go from a short crank to a long crank you actually need to lower your seat, because your foot will drop down further. Of coarse at the top of the stroke you foot will be higher and compress you more. Not sure why you are trying to go to a longer crank? As for speed wobble- fastest best way to control it is to bring your knees in and clamp that top tube. |
| 2016-10-15 10:16 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 233 Ventura, California | Subject: RE: Low back pain on bike I wanted to update this thread with some positive news. My lower back pain issue seems to have been fixed. My 'perceived' fix was to move the handle bars forward to stretch the back out. Well I went ahead with the upgrades and went about 20mm forward on the bars, and the new handle bars have a deeper drop which allows me to go forward and downward. I went for a 10 mile test ride, no issues, today did a 16 mile race simulation and not only did my back never give me a issue, I posted some of my best bike performances to date. I was able to average 19mph overall and 25mph on a good long stretch. I was in the top 10 on almost all segments recorded. The bike position has never felt better, and the lower back pain is no longer an issue. Super happy. Now I need to get back on my running game, my 5k off the bike sucked, lol
Edited by rjcalhoun 2016-10-15 10:27 PM (IMG_3279[1].JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_3279[1].JPG (1683KB - 29 downloads) |
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