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2017-02-01 2:21 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Originally posted by marcag

Thomas, I am curious, what is your relationship with either of these vendors ? Sponsored ? Compensated in any way ?





Definitely not sponsored. I am actually trying to devoid myself of any SPONSORSHIP arraignments. Frankly I am sick and tired of my peers making up outlandish claims about stuff. Not sure if you saw this thread but this kind of highlights my view.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Fo...

When it comes down it my writing focuses on 3 key things:

1) Innovation - such as this piece - http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2016/05/fastest-ironman-bike-shoes-aer...

2) Avoiding the 5x Triathlete Markup - this piece and pieces like the following: http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2016/05/best-cheap-ironman-cycling-sun...

3) General tips and tricks or things nobody else will talk about it: here is an example of my latest one http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2017/01/athlete-blood-testing-blood-wo...

Ultimately I want to be brand agnostic and offer choice, but not so much choice that people get overwhelmed by choice if that makes sense. Recovery Boots is a great example of this. There are probably 20 pairs out there, of which I have tried 9 now. I recommend one on the higher end of the spectrum and one on the lower end of the spectrum that basically gets you the same place.

When it comes down to, in the Facebook world, I am amazed how little people actually know but truly believe they are subject matter experts in. Frankly coming up in the sport over 10 years, I learned to trust certain resources for certain topics. So many people led me astray early on in my career because they were not *true* triathlon geeks.

Anyway, that is probably way more than you want to hear. Realize that I have had discussions with Normatec and Air Relax on the phone talks about future ideas to improve the product, because of the piece I have gotten a lot of questions, and if I never ask any questions I don't continue to grow. When it comes down to it, what I write tends to be based on how sick and tired I get about answering the same questions. But yes, I am very fascinated by this space. Boots are probably the one thing I wish I took seriously 5 years ago and not last year.

But when it comes to writing it is about being efficient but providing sound answers to peoples questions. A quintessential example of this over the past year has been Latex tubes. It is simple not efficient to have 100 one-off discussions regarding Latex. Because I present my self as very open, people do feel they can ask anything and many people want to get into a detailed discussion of Latex. Would it be nice just to spend a day writing a good piece on latex and using that as the basis for my response instead of reinventing the wheel?

Ultimately I struggle with this internally. I want to provide the highest quality content. I want to be the sheldon brown of triathlon but with a bit more polish. I have no idea if I can get there but I am trying.


2017-02-02 3:47 AM
in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?

- Use Normatec Recovery Compression Boots? yes

- If so do you own a pair or are you using them at gym, physio, etc? If so do you pay to use them? And how much do you pay to use them? own

- How did you become aware of Normatec? Was it advertising in Magazine, at Events??? race expos, friends using them

- How often do you use boots? just got so only a few times but after more intense workouts (spouse uses them too, and much more often)

- Have they reduced the number of massages you get? not a massage person, but probably should be

- Lastly, are you aware of less expensive, non-marketed brands out there? If so can you name them off the top of your head without cheating? yes, aware because I have read your blog otherwise I would have only known about Normatec

2017-02-02 10:45 AM
in reply to: brucemorgan

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
I appreciate your time and feedback.

I do try to make it clear who my sponsors are. Those are listed here: http://www.thomasgerlach.com/p/sponsors.html

Fwiw, by my own estimation Ray is making between $6 and $10 million a year. With such a large chunk of money at stake, and the real value to Ray being his early access to the products, do you think there is an opportunity to be corrupted? For instance, if someone doesn't like what he writes, could someone say we are not going to give you early access anymore? Ray already makes a big deal by saying he goes back to buy the products he tested, but the value isn't in the product itself, it is in the early access to the product and doesn't explain that to people. I understand that but his readers don't. That seems rather disingenuous to me.

I don't see where Ray talks about this HUGE potential for conflict of interest that is no different than that of David Pogue or Walt Mossberg. Maybe it is there and I am just missing it. Regardless this doesn't mean that I ignore the responsibility, but ultimately if the articles I write are garbage then no one is going to read them or continue to read them. Fortunately that is not the case, and in this case I have received numerous messages from people thanking them for saving well over $1K by going with Air Relax. It is nice to hear that.

On the flip side. Just looking at generic activity trackers, I would challenge you, where are Ray's reviews of $15 devices. It is possible those $15 devices could work for many people???? I don't really know, but I don't see any reviews for cheaper items. Is that because if he goes down the commodization route that a company like Garmin might not want to work with him??? If so isn't he doing his readers a potential disservice?

A great example of this and why I linked to it in my initial response to you is his review of the way overpriced Podium Desk Stand???

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/12/the-podium-trainer-desk-in-depth...


When he could have saved each one of his readers about $200 and have way more functionality with something like this:

http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2016/10/best-indoor-trainer-cycling-st...

I just don't get it.
2017-02-02 11:49 AM
in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
"Fwiw, by my own estimation Ray is making between $6 and $10 million a year."How did you come up with that number ?
2017-02-02 6:10 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
He has his own stats published on his website in the section where he *sells* ads. His site is very very large, but crunching those numbers from other publicly available numbers. Complied with a couple of private equity guys, and understanding that his site isn't a site people go to say, "log training numbers" over and over again - they are actively searching for very expensive products often times. 2.4 million unique a month is a lot of uniques. If Google and Facebook are getting over $20 a user per quarter, and Ray has 2.4 million uniques. Yeah the numbers are staggering. That doesn't even to take into that the average price of a product on Ray's site is an absolutely crazy high. He isn't just selling pencils and paper.

But I want to make it clear, I'm NOT out to hate on Ray. All the power to him, he has created a crazy successful business following a passion of his, blogging. And I do often skim his reviews. I just don't like it when people use him as an example of some beacon of absolute integrity to pin against me. He accepts advertising, he accepts early access to products, he doesn't seem to talk about any more generic products. Honestly, I am scratching my own head about his Podium Desk review. I don't know why he did that.

As I said before, personally I am trying to dissolve myself of more and sponsorship and be as agnostic as possible. I also don't want to ever take advertising. People should see some of the absolute *junk* products people message me about that literally get binned. I see others hawking the same products on Social Media and just shake my head, you took a terrible product, you know it is terrible, and now you are recommending it.

Frankly I even pass on opportunities for amazing products and innovate as just recently did that with Morf. I really like the owner and his product but there were some reservations regarding my own situation and a few things about the product as well:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Fo...

Did I pass up a money making opportunity that I think is actually a really great product. Absolutely, but I just didn't feel comfortable with it.
2017-02-04 6:28 PM
in reply to: #5210967

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
A bit much


2017-02-08 12:32 PM
in reply to: #5212591

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
This thread got me on the ball so I finally ordered some Air Relax boots. They are out for delivery today.. perfect timing since I have a 2 hour run tonight. Can't wait to get home and try them out!
2017-02-08 1:09 PM
in reply to: tjones2k9

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Originally posted by tjones2k9

This thread got me on the ball so I finally ordered some Air Relax boots. They are out for delivery today.. perfect timing since I have a 2 hour run tonight. Can't wait to get home and try them out!


Great to hear!!!! Let me know how you like them down the road a bit.
2017-02-08 6:59 PM
in reply to: #5212938

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Yes. I own a pair and use them on my patients.

I have an email from Normatec explaining why rhe air relax is so cheap and the differences. Granted they would be biased but it seems pretty spot on
2017-02-08 9:50 PM
in reply to: FELTGood

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Originally posted by FELTGood

Yes. I own a pair and use them on my patients.

I have an email from Normatec explaining why rhe air relax is so cheap and the differences. Granted they would be biased but it seems pretty spot on


They are both good systems but at completely different price points. Although, I would never ever run my Air Relax to the 240 max pressure, so I can't test them, but the fact that they go that high would seem that the 60-120 mm hg I am running them at is far less than they are made for. I do run my Normatec at the max pressure they got which is 100 mm hg. I hope to do an update in another 6 months time were I look at the long-term durability of both units.
2017-02-09 11:32 AM
in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
I have been looking at these for a while. Reading every review and all the science behind them. I understand how compression can help and have experienced the benefits of using compression sleeves, and pants. I get monthly deep tissue massages from a therapist I have worked with for over a year, so she knows where I need the work done. While I understand that these will not completely replace the massages, will these benefit a slower triathlete?? If I'm not running 6 minute miles, or pushing 200 + watts on the bike, are these worth the price?? My concern would be getting these and realizing they are more of a novelty. Have any back of the packers used these and felt the benefits? Don't get me wrong, I know I won't miraculously become a podium finisher at Kona. I just want to know is there benefits for the average triathlete.


2017-02-09 1:58 PM
in reply to: Rooster519

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Personally I think everyone can benefit from boots, not just athletes. Heck, I have been so sick the past 10 days, although I use them less because I haven't been training at all, I still make time at the end of the night to take a session of ~45mins. What they are doing is actively squeezing the muscles, lymph, fluid and help expedite the flushing process. Every athlete who trains can benefit from them.

If you think of the latest research on sitting, why is sitting is so bad for the body? Walking and exercise in moderation is a good for the body for a reason. It keeps everything moving.

Massage can still be great for targeting very specific problem areas, but I am also interested in the research out there. It seems like the general "flush" massage is on the way out and being replaced by recovery boots.
2017-02-13 4:50 PM
in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?


- Use Normatec Recovery Compression Boots? Yes.

- If so do you own a pair or are you using them at gym, physio, etc? If so do you pay to use them? And how much do you pay to use them? We own a pair.

- How did you become aware of Normatec? Was it advertising in Magazine, at Events??? Word of mouth from coaches/friends.

- How often do you use boots? After every medium or long run or ride.

- Have they reduced the number of massages you get? No, but they have reduced the need for visits to the PT

- Lastly, are you aware of less expensive, non-marketed brands out there? If so can you name them off the top of your head without cheating? I'm sure there are, but I am not aware of them.

 

We have had our pair for nearly 4 years now, and have found them to be very effective in aiding recovery. I also put them to use during pregnancy, helping combat edema in the last few months!

2017-02-13 6:37 PM
in reply to: swgtri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Originally posted by swgtri


- Use Normatec Recovery Compression Boots? Yes.

- If so do you own a pair or are you using them at gym, physio, etc? If so do you pay to use them? And how much do you pay to use them? We own a pair.

- How did you become aware of Normatec? Was it advertising in Magazine, at Events??? Word of mouth from coaches/friends.

- How often do you use boots? After every medium or long run or ride.

- Have they reduced the number of massages you get? No, but they have reduced the need for visits to the PT

- Lastly, are you aware of less expensive, non-marketed brands out there? If so can you name them off the top of your head without cheating? I'm sure there are, but I am not aware of them.

 

We have had our pair for nearly 4 years now, and have found them to be very effective in aiding recovery. I also put them to use during pregnancy, helping combat edema in the last few months!




Wow thanks so much for your response. Never heard anyone using them for pregnancy edema, but good to know!!!
2017-05-09 8:26 AM
in reply to: Rooster519

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Originally posted by Rooster519

I have been looking at these for a while. Reading every review and all the science behind them. I understand how compression can help and have experienced the benefits of using compression sleeves, and pants. I get monthly deep tissue massages from a therapist I have worked with for over a year, so she knows where I need the work done. While I understand that these will not completely replace the massages, will these benefit a slower triathlete?? If I'm not running 6 minute miles, or pushing 200 + watts on the bike, are these worth the price?? My concern would be getting these and realizing they are more of a novelty. Have any back of the packers used these and felt the benefits? Don't get me wrong, I know I won't miraculously become a podium finisher at Kona. I just want to know is there benefits for the average triathlete.


So did you decide on anything??? If you bought a pair how are you liking them and are using them frequently?
2017-05-09 9:50 AM
in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Originally posted by ThomasGerlach ProTri

Originally posted by Rooster519

I have been looking at these for a while. Reading every review and all the science behind them. I understand how compression can help and have experienced the benefits of using compression sleeves, and pants. I get monthly deep tissue massages from a therapist I have worked with for over a year, so she knows where I need the work done. While I understand that these will not completely replace the massages, will these benefit a slower triathlete?? If I'm not running 6 minute miles, or pushing 200 + watts on the bike, are these worth the price?? My concern would be getting these and realizing they are more of a novelty. Have any back of the packers used these and felt the benefits? Don't get me wrong, I know I won't miraculously become a podium finisher at Kona. I just want to know is there benefits for the average triathlete.


So did you decide on anything??? If you bought a pair how are you liking them and are using them frequently?


After much discussion with the better half we decided that this wasn't the year for it. Just to many other things requiring money right now, building tri bike, wedding, and now a baby on the way. Hopefully next year. Maybe I'll get them for her as a wedding present lol.


2017-05-09 2:08 PM
in reply to: Rooster519

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
wow exciting times. That is a lot of change. Wishing you the best with it all. If you do get boots and you happened to remember drop me a line 3 months or so after purchase and let me know what you think.
2017-05-09 6:21 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
I find it interesting that there were a number of posts coming down on Thomas as shilling, which I think in subsequent posts he has pretty well shown that not to be the case (tactfully I might add), yet I am yet to see one "oops, my bad" response....ahem....

Further, even if he was shilling, I think we have discussed this previously that folks that contribute a lot of really good content and answers get a "License to Shill" (didn't intend a beastie boys reference...just happened and it's awesome) every once in a while. Thomas is the only pro I'm aware of that spends a lot of time on BT offering solid advice to us schlepers, so I think he fits that bill.

To the actual question; I find this very interesting; as an engineer by training who now works in marketing. It actually took this post to realize that Normatec totally "got" me. My wife has been harassing me about getting recovery boots (specifically Normatec) ever since her weekly run mileage has started to approach the 50's but I've been stalling due to the cost of them. I found myself saying, I wonder if the cheaper options are the real deal, without ever properly vetting "the real deal". I guess I got wrapped up in their marketing blitz and just accepted that Normatec was the standard without ever doing the research, which is exceptionally rare for me. So I find that very interesting from a professional standpoint. I've never been a proponent of marketing the heck out of something for position, especially something technical like I deal with, but apparently it can get the best of us.

Regardless, I find the information really helpful, and now I have to pull the trigger. I can't hide behind the price point anymore. I appreciate the info.

Edited by 3mar 2017-05-09 6:22 PM
2017-05-10 11:13 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
Thanks for the kind words. Marketing is a weird thing and confirmation bias can play such a huge part in the decision making process. I haven't discussed this publicly but while my "peers" are often more concerned with "looking cool", I have never played that part opting for function and price over branding.

Although the last thing I want is to cause them embarrassment while training with me, the reality is that more than a few peer pros said I couldn't ride my bike with them simply because it was a generic heavy aluminum cross bike, with 42mm tires, and baskets, panniers, and rear rack. The reality is that they were all too happy to let me carry their stuff in my baskets on our 26 mile ascent up Mt Lemmon, but don't want the bike to hurt their image.

While 99% of those in Triathlon (pro athletes, age-groupers, coaches, clubs etc) are promoting Normatec, there are other options. I am huge believer in Normatec and a big fan of the awareness they are bringing to Ironman, but the reality is that there are so many people that could benefit that don't because the cost is prohibitively high. As an already expensive sport the last thing I want to see is someone balk at the sport because they don't think they can be competitive without the biggest name brands.
2018-11-23 1:05 PM
in reply to: ThomasGerlach ProTri

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Subject: RE: Do You Use Recovery Compression Boot?
For those ever looking to get into compression boots now are the best deals of the year.

- Normatec has their holiday savings event (run although way through the holidays) at $200 off.

- Air Relax has their only real deal of the year that runs only thru cyber monday - $50 off $300 purchase. More details regarding the Air Relax deal can be found here:

http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2017/11/air-relax-black-friday-coupon-...
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