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2017-11-06 1:13 AM


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Subject: 70.3 running question
I've got a 70.3 in 4 weeks and am keen to improve my run split. Previous run in May was 1.40 which was disappointing, but to be honest I hadn't done enough work, averaging around 20 - 25 miles per week. Since June I've slowly increased my run volume and am now doing close to double that, 40 - 50 mpw. I haven't done a race yet and am yet to really test out how my running is going. The only race I had was a duathlon a month ago, I improved my 5km from 21.10 to 19.35, so I have improved, but I'm not sure how things will pan out during the 70.3 race. :Looking back at previous 70.3s I seem to start OK, but then fade around the 7 - 10km. Not terribly, but I slow down and things get painful. Will the increased run volume simply mean that won't happen or will happen later? I also don't know how I should pace it? I'd expect to get mid 1.30s (1.34 - 1.36) and hope for low 1.30s. But just not sure how to pace it correctly.



2017-11-06 11:12 AM
in reply to: zedzded

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Subject: RE: 70.3 running question

The McMillan run calculator should give you a decent preview of a stand-alone HM relative to your 5K times.  WIth the mileage, you *should* be considered properly trained to hit that time (probably need some adjustments due to it being a HIM rather than stand-alone run).  

I wouldn't recommend any changes to your training, but work out the run strategy that is aggressively realistic.  Specifically, what do you want to do in the first 10K that'll set you up for success overcoming the historical fade?  This needs to be something easily measured on the course and could be as simple as targeting a pace variance of 5 seconds per mile/km over the first 10km (i.e. your goal is to hit each mile within a 5 second window).  It might be fair to have your goal be the lower end of your expected split (1:34 = ~7:15/mile).  If you're running 7:15's even though you feel you're "holding back" then maintain that same pace through the critical zone and if you're still holding it at mile 10, you can pick up the pace for the last 3.  You'll have lots of positive reinforcement as you pass runners in these last 3 miles.  

2017-11-06 2:54 PM
in reply to: zedzded

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Subject: RE: 70.3 running question
Originally posted by zedzded

I've got a 70.3 in 4 weeks and am keen to improve my run split. Previous run in May was 1.40 which was disappointing, but to be honest I hadn't done enough work, averaging around 20 - 25 miles per week. Since June I've slowly increased my run volume and am now doing close to double that, 40 - 50 mpw. I haven't done a race yet and am yet to really test out how my running is going. The only race I had was a duathlon a month ago, I improved my 5km from 21.10 to 19.35, so I have improved, but I'm not sure how things will pan out during the 70.3 race. :Looking back at previous 70.3s I seem to start OK, but then fade around the 7 - 10km. Not terribly, but I slow down and things get painful. Will the increased run volume simply mean that won't happen or will happen later? I also don't know how I should pace it? I'd expect to get mid 1.30s (1.34 - 1.36) and hope for low 1.30s. But just not sure how to pace it correctly.





When I was running 19:25 on a 5k I was at 1h35 on a good HIM. I suspect mid 1:30s is more realistic than low 1h30s
I went from 1:40ish to 1:35 based on three things
-more volume as ou did (about 64km per week)
- better pacing. I controlled m HR during the race, breaking into 4 pieces and capping each segment, but progressively going higher. For example max 148 for the first quater, then max 152, 156 and then just ignore everything and survive
- my long runs had "work" in them rather than just straight 90min of aerobic running. This allows to build that strength to get to 15-16km strong.
2017-11-06 7:59 PM
in reply to: McFuzz


471
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Subject: RE: 70.3 running question
Originally posted by McFuzz

The McMillan run calculator should give you a decent preview of a stand-alone HM relative to your 5K times.  WIth the mileage, you *should* be considered properly trained to hit that time (probably need some adjustments due to it being a HIM rather than stand-alone run).  

I wouldn't recommend any changes to your training, but work out the run strategy that is aggressively realistic.  Specifically, what do you want to do in the first 10K that'll set you up for success overcoming the historical fade?  This needs to be something easily measured on the course and could be as simple as targeting a pace variance of 5 seconds per mile/km over the first 10km (i.e. your goal is to hit each mile within a 5 second window).  It might be fair to have your goal be the lower end of your expected split (1:34 = ~7:15/mile).  If you're running 7:15's even though you feel you're "holding back" then maintain that same pace through the critical zone and if you're still holding it at mile 10, you can pick up the pace for the last 3.  You'll have lots of positive reinforcement as you pass runners in these last 3 miles.  




Yeah I think previously I've always gone out a little hard, feeling OK, but not easy. Trying to hold an unrealistic pace. In may I was hoping for mid 1.30s (which was unrealistic in hindsight) and went through the first 7km 4.34min/km pace (7.20/mile), 2nd 7km 4.50min/km (7.46/mile) and 3rd 7km 4.55min/km (7.55/mile). Mentally I was not feeling strong when things started hurting a little at 7km. It's quite challenging for me having to deal with the fact I have 14kms to go and am already feeling the pinch!

I think I now have the endurance to stay strong through the run, long weekly run has been 20 - 24kms which has included at least 30min of tempo running. Mid week some mid distances of 14kms, plus hill repeats and intervals. So I'm hoping that typical early fade I get won't happen or won't happen as badly/early. It shouldn't, but you never know.... I certainly won't be cocky (hence this thread). I think pacing is critical too, I probably need a plan before hand, at least for the first 10kms, if I can get to 10km feeling OK, I'll be fine

2017-11-06 8:09 PM
in reply to: marcag


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Subject: RE: 70.3 running question
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by zedzded

I've got a 70.3 in 4 weeks and am keen to improve my run split. Previous run in May was 1.40 which was disappointing, but to be honest I hadn't done enough work, averaging around 20 - 25 miles per week. Since June I've slowly increased my run volume and am now doing close to double that, 40 - 50 mpw. I haven't done a race yet and am yet to really test out how my running is going. The only race I had was a duathlon a month ago, I improved my 5km from 21.10 to 19.35, so I have improved, but I'm not sure how things will pan out during the 70.3 race. :Looking back at previous 70.3s I seem to start OK, but then fade around the 7 - 10km. Not terribly, but I slow down and things get painful. Will the increased run volume simply mean that won't happen or will happen later? I also don't know how I should pace it? I'd expect to get mid 1.30s (1.34 - 1.36) and hope for low 1.30s. But just not sure how to pace it correctly.





When I was running 19:25 on a 5k I was at 1h35 on a good HIM. I suspect mid 1:30s is more realistic than low 1h30s
I went from 1:40ish to 1:35 based on three things
-more volume as ou did (about 64km per week)
- better pacing. I controlled m HR during the race, breaking into 4 pieces and capping each segment, but progressively going higher. For example max 148 for the first quater, then max 152, 156 and then just ignore everything and survive
- my long runs had "work" in them rather than just straight 90min of aerobic running. This allows to build that strength to get to 15-16km strong.


I think you're right. I tend to come up with two different race times and split times for s/b/r depending on what mood I'm in. I have an overly optimistic time and a realistic time based on my training, results of similarly paced competitors and things like the JD or Macmillians calculator. Which all point to around 1.34 - 1.36. Guys that are running low 1.30s are running standalone HM around 1.26ish which is quicker than I would go. So yeah I'll aim for mid 1.30s.

Totally agree re long runs + work. I did 24km on sunday at 5min/km pace (8/mile) which included 7km at target race pace (4.30min/km). Felt OK, but I hadn't swam and biked!

I think I really need to focus on keeping my pace nice and controlled in that first portion of the race. So hard to do though. I'm chasing a spot on the podium and a spot at the worlds, I know there is one guy who I probably can't beat and 2 guys who are around 5 - 7mins quicker. So I need to get everything right on the day!

I've got an OD this weekend, so will aim to try and run a controlled 10km. What pace should I aim for? I was thinking 4.10min/km (6.42). It's going to be warm and it's a bit hilly, so not super fast. I think I should try and negatively split it, typically my first few kms are the quickest and last few the slowest.
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