Masterstroke!

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15655

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

I don't give a rats arse what Paul Ryan thinks........he should resign and move on.

, Arizona

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.

Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden? Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.

Are you telling me Trump worked the system?! I am appalled. ;-) We’ve been taken advantage of for years running trade deficits. About time someone has the balls to start to rectify the ship.

Make no mistake, I want to see our economy prosper too. Am I missing something? I don't see how this will give us an advantage, now our exported finished goods will be less competitive because the raw materials cost more. do you really think these countries are going to pay the tariff and not raise the price of steel to cover their additional expenses?

I think it's a matter of looking at the bigger picture rather than the narrow picture. When we look at tarrifs on a particular product you're absolutely right that it raises the price of that material and/or makes US based companies look more appealing from a price standpoint. This in turn employs more people and increases the overall GDP and those employees spend more money. All the additional economic growth leads to wage increases and on and on.
Obviously this stuff all takes time, but the fade to the negative has been going on for far too long and it needs to shift the other way. Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do and I for one am very thankful for that. Macro economics is a very complex thing with a lot of moving parts and it doesn't change quickly. I'm sure there will be some short term pain as a result, but I'm willing to endure it for the long term benefits.

Looking only at American steel companies and the jobs it will create IS the narrow view. It will HURT industries that consume steel (Construction, autos, ships, planes, machinery, the list goes on for miles), there are orders of magnitude more workers and potential for increasing GDP than there is for solely the steel production industry. The big picture is this will affect industries MUCH larger than steel producers, jacking up the price of their raw materials isn't going to create growth, it's going to restrict it and give the government a small piece of revenue.

Edited by Synon 2018-03-05 3:57 PM

My Race Log

Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Oysterboy I think the real question is what do we need to do to make our steel and aluminum industries competitive. If other countries are able to produce goods at a more competitive price then we should buy their goods, that just makes sense. If they manipulate markets to game the pricing then no, we should not buy their goods and call them out on unfair trade practices. But establishing tariffs to benefit one industry to the detriment of others sounds... like picking a winner. This is something that the right railed on Obama about.

Piece of cake. Abolish minimum wage, allow children to work, eliminate all worker safety protections, oh and abolish unions. ;-)

My Race Log

Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.

Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden? Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.

Are you telling me Trump worked the system?! I am appalled. ;-) We’ve been taken advantage of for years running trade deficits. About time someone has the balls to start to rectify the ship.

Make no mistake, I want to see our economy prosper too. Am I missing something? I don't see how this will give us an advantage, now our exported finished goods will be less competitive because the raw materials cost more. do you really think these countries are going to pay the tariff and not raise the price of steel to cover their additional expenses?

I think it's a matter of looking at the bigger picture rather than the narrow picture. When we look at tarrifs on a particular product you're absolutely right that it raises the price of that material and/or makes US based companies look more appealing from a price standpoint. This in turn employs more people and increases the overall GDP and those employees spend more money. All the additional economic growth leads to wage increases and on and on.
Obviously this stuff all takes time, but the fade to the negative has been going on for far too long and it needs to shift the other way. Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do and I for one am very thankful for that. Macro economics is a very complex thing with a lot of moving parts and it doesn't change quickly. I'm sure there will be some short term pain as a result, but I'm willing to endure it for the long term benefits.

Looking only at American steel companies and the jobs it will create IS the narrow view. It will HURT industries that consume steel (Construction, autos, ships, planes, machinery, the list goes on for miles), there are orders of magnitude more workers and potential for increasing GDP than there is for solely the steel production industry. The big picture is this will affect industries MUCH larger than steel producers, jacking up the price of their raw materials isn't going to create growth, it's going to restrict it and give the government a small piece of revenue.

You're only looking at the negatives of it and ignoring the positives. Short term the negatives will outweigh the positives, so I agree with you there, but over time the positives will outweigh the negatives.

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Expert

2373

Floriduh

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Historically this has never been the case, I guess we get to learn that again

, Arizona

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by tuwood

You're only looking at the negatives of it and ignoring the positives. Short term the negatives will outweigh the positives, so I agree with you there, but over time the positives will outweigh the negatives.

I've acknowledge the positives: American steel producers will proposer, they will add to their 150,000 headcount supported by artificial prices (for how long we don't know).

Now for the 6,000,000 workers who are involved with fabrication and consuming steel, what are these "long term positives" that will outweigh the negatives you mention for these folks?

I'm looking at the net result, when you raise the price for materials for industries that have FORTY time as many people as the one you are trying to help, get ready to feel some long term pain. We will lose FAR more jobs from fabrication than we could ever possibly gain by manipulating the price to help production. Significant amounts of time does not change this fact.

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Pro

9391

Omaha, NE

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Oysterboy Historically this has never been the case, I guess we get to learn that again

Have things ever historically been so imbalanced?

My Race Log

Expert

2373

Floriduh

Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

That’s a good question. Certainly not in terms of absolute dollars but maybe in terms of % GDP. US has oftentimes turned to protectionism to fend off real or perceived threats