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2020-01-30 9:16 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!

Looks like this mess will be over soon.  Has there ever been a group of people (the house managers) with less self-awareness??  Someone should make a comic book with Schiff and Nadler as the main characters.



2020-01-30 9:55 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Originally posted by Rogillio

Alan Dershowitz just ended this trial. Very compelling!


I'm curious about your reasoning around this. So because he believe's his reelection is in the interest of the public he can do... well.. anything he wants?? Is he really trying to justify totalitarianism? That's a pretty blatant admission that he didn't do it for "corruption" reasons, but that shouldn't come as any surprise.
2020-01-30 10:01 AM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!

Originally posted by Synon
Originally posted by Rogillio Alan Dershowitz just ended this trial. Very compelling!
I'm curious about your reasoning around this. So because he believe's his reelection is in the interest of the public he can do... well.. anything he wants?? Is he really trying to justify totalitarianism? That's a pretty blatant admission that he didn't do it for "corruption" reasons, but that shouldn't come as any surprise.

That's such a crap comment. 

This is really simple.....there has to be a violation of law.   The President of the U.S.  has broad power under the constitution, and if you actually listened to Dershowitz' argument then you heard  him rattle off a list of President's who were considered to have "abused their power". 

What this really is.......mid-level managers who don't agree with the President's policies.  You know what?  Who gives a rats arse what they agree with.  The man was elected President by the people of this country.  The Dems lost and have never gotten over it.  I hope the people of this country never forget what that rotten party has put the U.S. through the last 3 years.

Democrats......PLEASE nominate Bernie Sanders for President......put the final nail in your own coffin.

 

 

2020-01-30 12:00 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Leveraging aid against foreign governments to try and undermine your political opponents is called "policy" these days, who knew. Dershowitz also said an impeachable offense need only fit the meaning of high crimes and misdemeanors. Seems pretty obvious why the constitution was framed this way - to prevent abuses of power that aren't specifically spelled out in the criminal code because the president is in a unique position of power.

LB you gotta be sick of the shitposting by now, but man are you relentless. Take a few breaths before you respond, it may prevent these "dems bad" emotional outbursts that seem to be your sole focus every post. Speaking of things people can't get over... jesus.

I'll be disappointing no matter who wins the next election, they all suck. You're right about Sanders though, I can think of no better way to turn people off than promise everything but not have the power to deliver any of it.
2020-01-30 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: The trial begins!

Unfortunately, Synon.....relentless is exactly what it takes to keep Dems from getting a foothold on ANYTHING.  As I have said before, I was well on my way to being socially liberal (even was told by people on this forum that I was no Conservative)....but after watching that party in the wake of the 2016 election I will stay just where I'm at, but thanks for caring.

I don't care what it is that liberals want, the answer has to be an unequivocal NO!  They have shown, without question, that nothing is ever enough.  They want their way and their way only on everything.....and to make it worse, if they don't get their way they will work to destroy everything they can get their hands on, just like little children.

So no.....I'm not going to stop.  The Dems will be happy to ruin this country if we all stop opposing them.  No thinking  needed anymore....the Dems  have shown exactly who they are.  NO to everything they want!!



Edited by Left Brain 2020-01-30 12:47 PM
2020-01-30 12:48 PM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio

Alan Dershowitz just ended this trial. Very compelling!


I'm curious about your reasoning around this. So because he believe's his reelection is in the interest of the public he can do... well.. anything he wants?? Is he really trying to justify totalitarianism? That's a pretty blatant admission that he didn't do it for "corruption" reasons, but that shouldn't come as any surprise.


That is a media gross exaggeration of what was being argued. He was making the point that is there is both a national and personal interest it is not impeachable. I think he as since tried to clarify.

I think all the debating is smoke and mirrors. IMNSHO it all boils down to one word in the Constitution, “other”. The president shall be impeached for bribery, treason and OTHER (meaning similar crimes like bribery and treason). This is pretty clear to me. I don’t need a lawyer or scholar to interpret what that means so my dumb countryazs can understand it. This whole thing is politics and posturing. I don’t care what additional witnesses have to say. We’re heard from 18 witnesses. None have alleged anything remotely close to bribery or treason.

I listen to Shummer and Shift and CNN and MSNBC continue to insult me and it angers me. They assume Trump supporters are ignorant. They continually insult republicans and act as though if senators don’t agree with their take they are dishonorable.

Russia failed and yet Dems mentioned Russia over 200 times in their opening statement. If I heard nothing else that alone tells me Dems have no case. The fact that they are begging for more witnesses also screams they have no case. Don’t pizzs on my back and tell me it’s raining.


2020-01-30 12:55 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
My question for Dems.

If Biden was not running for President would it be wrong for Trump to ask for an investigation?

Second question: Do you think American think it’s ok for the VP’s son to get $83k a month from a Ukraine company?
2020-01-30 1:03 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Watching the Q/A and the one thing that is clear, nothing NEW is coming out! It’s the same arguments by both sides over and over and over.

Why are they doing this? Politics! No chance of ever getting 67% of the Senate. Doesn’t matter how much more of this krap must I endure? Yes, I know I can change the channel but it’s like watching a train wreck.
2020-01-30 2:57 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Originally posted by Rogillio My question for Dems. If Biden was not running for President would it be wrong for Trump to ask for an investigation? Second question: Do you think American think it’s ok for the VP’s son to get $83k a month from a Ukraine company?

Of course they don't think that it's ok.....but they will say ANYTHING to disparage president Trump or try to remove him from office.  This has NOTHING to do with reality.  Look at all the runs the Dems have taken at the President SINCE THE DAY HE WAS ELECTED.  They have NOTHING but a fractured and divided Democrat Party, and a completely polarized electorate, to show for it.  They deserve every bit of what they are going to get in the 2020 election.

2020-01-30 4:17 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
LB, that's an amazing story. Well on your way to being socially liberal and BAM! Trumps gets elected, the democrats whine and cry and complain... or rather, the media does, almost everyone else got on with their lives. So you decide to give up on your core values and positions on issues that would make you socially liberal in the first place and now whine and cry and complain about the dems on a BT forum, kind of ironic don't you think? You are encompassing the division the media strives to create between "the parties", this us vs. them . You're second paragraph sounds exactly like the very few liberal extremists people I know (college students unsurprisingly), just replace liberal with conservative. They can't see anything past their hatred for "them" even if there was an issue they were in line with they would find a way to disagree and cause conflict. You seem to be a victim of group identity, you gotta let that go man. It's those divisions and inability to work through differences that will ruin this country, not the dems or repubs.


I don't consider myself a dem Rog, but here are my thoughts on your questions.

No, it wouldn't be wrong and it's almost certain he would have zero inclination to care about a private citizen earning a good amount of money from a private company. You think Hunter is the only person making millions off his name? Nothing classy about it, but I don't see anything illegal about it. Sounds like a great reason to call additional witnesses, maybe Trump should volunteer to clarify the whole mess eh? Hell lets get Hunter on the stand too.

Dershowitz's statement was not an exaggeration, "If a president did something that he believes will help him get elected — in the public interest — that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment."

For there to be any kind of public interest Burisma must be a benefactor of US aid money, which I'm unable to find any source claiming this to be the case. All of this occurred after Hunter was no longer even on their board. This is just like the birther he pulled on Obama, fake news.
2020-01-30 4:56 PM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Originally posted by Synon

LB, that's an amazing story. Well on your way to being socially liberal and BAM! Trumps gets elected, the democrats whine and cry and complain... or rather, the media does, almost everyone else got on with their lives. So you decide to give up on your core values and positions on issues that would make you socially liberal in the first place and now whine and cry and complain about the dems on a BT forum, kind of ironic don't you think? You are encompassing the division the media strives to create between "the parties", this us vs. them . You're second paragraph sounds exactly like the very few liberal extremists people I know (college students unsurprisingly), just replace liberal with conservative. They can't see anything past their hatred for "them" even if there was an issue they were in line with they would find a way to disagree and cause conflict. You seem to be a victim of group identity, you gotta let that go man. It's those divisions and inability to work through differences that will ruin this country, not the dems or repubs.


I don't consider myself a dem Rog, but here are my thoughts on your questions.

No, it wouldn't be wrong and it's almost certain he would have zero inclination to care about a private citizen earning a good amount of money from a private company. You think Hunter is the only person making millions off his name? Nothing classy about it, but I don't see anything illegal about it. Sounds like a great reason to call additional witnesses, maybe Trump should volunteer to clarify the whole mess eh? Hell lets get Hunter on the stand too.

Dershowitz's statement was not an exaggeration, "If a president did something that he believes will help him get elected — in the public interest — that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment."

For there to be any kind of public interest Burisma must be a benefactor of US aid money, which I'm unable to find any source claiming this to be the case. All of this occurred after Hunter was no longer even on their board. This is just like the birther he pulled on Obama, fake news.


The “public interest” would be the $500m in aid going into some corrupt entity. Been proven Trump was interested in multiple countries wrt corruption. He is obligated to make sure he is not just throwing away our taxpayer money. All of Ukraine was known as the most corrupt country in the world.

He also suspected Ukraine interference in 2016 so even it Biden was not running he would still have asked Ukraine to work with the US to find out what happened. And that is exactly what he asked for.

Dems have couched this as he was “looking for dirt”. If there was no corruption then there would be no dirt. The Dems model was they would find corruption.

Personally, I believe Trump honestly believe what many people told him about Ukraine wrt 2016 and was looking for exoneration to clear his name.

Nevertheless, I still hold that asking their help was not a crime. At best it was a campaign finance violation...punishable by a fine not impeachment.

BTW, lets not forget the Hillary/DNC funded Russian dossier if we want to talk about using foreign aid to influence an election. Almost worked too....’cept, to everyone’s surprise Trump won!

It is interesting that the House failed to cite a crime. I think that is when they lost. The problem was, the could not cite a federal statue that he allegedly violated. If there was one, rest assured they would have charged it.

Bribery, treason and OTHER (SUCH OFFENSES)

This was a fool’s errand anyway. Impeach Trump and you get Pence. Pence names female as VP and serves 8 years. :-).



2020-01-30 5:18 PM
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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
We've gone through this already. There doesn't need to be dirt, trial by public opinion is all Trump cares about, a public announcement of said investigation was a requirement if you remember. Just like the birther idiocy it does't matter if it's true or not to get people frothing at the mouth, he's the king of fake news and people don't don't care if it actually happened. Not only that, but asking a corrupt country to investigate itself? That makes zero sense Rog. I know you are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but man this is such a stretch. And yes, lets not forget the Russian dossier, if we don't shut this kind of down then we set a precedent that it's ok to solicit foreign interference. That was wrong and I have never and will never defend it.

Maybe Pence will choose Sarah Palin LOL!

Maybe we should investigate Bolton too, didn't he receive huge amounts of "speaking fees" from Ukraine? It must be corruption!

Edited by Synon 2020-01-30 5:19 PM
2020-01-30 6:49 PM
in reply to: Synon

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Whatever the Libs in this country want.....NO!! Give them NOTHING...they will destroy this country because it won't be enough until they do.
2020-01-30 7:00 PM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Listening to talking heads and shaking mine. What galls me is the arrogance of some of the commentators. I just saw one say “I honestly believe that most senators would vote to convict if it was a secret vote”. I suppose if you believe something with all your heart and soul it becomes difficult to believe that reasonable, thoughtful people can see things totally differently than you do.
2020-01-30 7:28 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Look at the bright side Synon.....at least, through this joke of an impeachment, the Dems can run on "we must defeat Trump".. because they sure as hell don't have anything else they can try to win with. But we both know that was the point all along. What a damn farce.
2020-01-30 7:30 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Rog.....are you watching the mind readers again? LMAO


2020-01-30 7:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Tell me LB, what issues were you socially liberal on?
2020-01-30 7:33 PM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Originally posted by Synon

We've gone through this already. There doesn't need to be dirt, trial by public opinion is all Trump cares about, a public announcement of said investigation was a requirement if you remember. Just like the birther idiocy it does't matter if it's true or not to get people frothing at the mouth, he's the king of fake news and people don't don't care if it actually happened. Not only that, but asking a corrupt country to investigate itself? That makes zero sense Rog. I know you are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but man this is such a stretch. And yes, lets not forget the Russian dossier, if we don't shut this kind of down then we set a precedent that it's ok to solicit foreign interference. That was wrong and I have never and will never defend it.

Maybe Pence will choose Sarah Palin LOL!

Maybe we should investigate Bolton too, didn't he receive huge amounts of "speaking fees" from Ukraine? It must be corruption!



I would love SP as VP....but she is toxic. Nikki Haley would be good IMO. But this is an issue for 2024.

Regardless of what happens with the trial Lindsey Graham has already said he is going to investigate Biden.

Funny thing about the trial is, I suspect very few people are watching. I’m a political junkie and I am sick of it. As I said, nothing new is coming out.

Trump approval rating is close to an all time high. That was not supposed to happen. LOL

2020-01-30 7:50 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Originally posted by Left Brain

Rog.....are you watching the mind readers again? LMAO


I am. And it is painful. My only regret is they are never made to account for their wrong prognostications. There is a hilarious utube video showing dozens of talking heads state emphatically “Donald Trump will NEVER become President”.

What cracks me up is all the draconian statements about the Constitution, the republic, the balance of power, national security, liberty and the American way. Acquit or convict, the country will survive.
2020-01-30 8:44 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Of course. This is nothing but a political move on the Dems part. This was entirely calculated to try to influence the upcoming election. The Dem leaders, after their impeachment debacle, would have to be dumber than a sack of hammers (and in no way am I ruling that out) to think they could convict or remove this President. Listen to Pelosi in the coming days after this case is dismissed....that will tell you all you need to know. They know they can't get the Presidency....they want the Senate....that is all this was about. It won't work, but it's been fun.
2020-01-30 8:54 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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If the trial is turning your brain to mush and you want to see real comedic genius turn on MSNBC.... absolutely priceless!!


2020-01-31 8:01 AM
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Subject: RE: The trial begins!
Taking heads making bold predictions that the impeachment results will hurt republicans in the election. Time to start building the montage of bad predictions. The Dems and media look like sore losers trying to blame everyone but themselves.

Pelosi says Trump will forever be impeached. True be he will also be forever acquitted.

Hope the Senate ends this today.

What bugs me is the media narrative that all the republicans are under Trump’s thumb. IOWs, they are all spineless and only support acquittal because the “fear” Trump.

Dems and media dreaming about Roberts being a tie breaker....IOWs, they ASSUME Roberts would side with them. Be funny if Roberts did cast a vote and sided with republicans.

Edited by Rogillio 2020-01-31 8:10 AM
2020-01-31 9:02 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Oh, get ready for the great whine and the endless spin of how much this hurts the President and his re-election chances.......meanwhile it never dawns on them that nobody is buying the endless "free stuff for everyone" crap they are trying to peddle. 

The real good stuff is coming when the Dems try to get rid of Sanders as their candidate and the Bros burn the party to the ground.  LMAO

2020-01-31 9:51 AM
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Media and Dems all “blaming” Lamar Alexander...seems to forget about the other 47 Senators who evidently feel the same way.

I heard a lib last night say “the biggest difference with the Clinton impeachment was witnesses”. Uh, no. The biggest difference was Clinton committed a felony and that was not disputed.

CNN mocking the Lamar “the Dems proved their case but we don’t care”. No, he said he believed the Dems case but it did not rise to the level of impeachment.

Edited by Rogillio 2020-01-31 9:56 AM
2020-01-31 9:59 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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You will get nowhere trying to reason with those folks.....just look in the mirror and practice saying "NO" every time you see their mouths move. 

It actually works really well, and cuts down on arguments.  You may have to put up with some screaming and stamping of feet, but it doesn't last long. 

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