First ultra 2 months after first marathon?

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2010-04-07 8:42 AM

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Subject: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
I am running my first full marathon May 2. I was kind of thinking that if I'm going to be in marathon shape anyway, why not do an ultra? a 50K, so only a few more miles than a marathon.

I am thinking of doing this race on July 10: http://www.psychowyco.com/id75.html

I ran a 20 mile race on the same trails in February, so I learned the hard way what being unprepared looks like. It is crazy hilly, but honestly the hills weren't as bad as the mud and carrying around 5 extra pounds of gunk on each foot. And being freezing cold and undertrained. I'm hoping (perhaps unrealistically) that it won't be so muddy in the summer time...

So anyway, what do you all think? I just got a wild hair to do this and I don't know a whole lot about ultra marathons.


2010-04-07 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
Actually it's a super idea in my opinion. you use the marathon as your long run for the ultra. Train up for the marathon as you normally would, then drop your long run distance down a bit after the marathon but keep the weekly mileage up. Then taper off two to three weeks pre-Ultra. I think ideally running an ultra around 6 weeks after a marathon is perfect but who knows? Why not go for a 50 miler instead of a 50K? 50K is really not that much more than a full marathon. I felt totally fina at 50 K when i was doing my 50 miler. The real "wall" that I hit was at mile 43.

Just saying that if you want to jump up mileage and do an Ultra, 50 miles is not crazy (not like 100 milers) but still a good challenge.

Either way, definitely do an Ultra and the time frame should work well.

But then again, I've only ran two marathans and one 50 miler so what do I know?
2010-04-07 2:32 PM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?

I don't think it will be a problem at all, I personally think 50k trail runs are easier than road marathons.  I tend to keep the pace up in a marathon and really punish myself, it feels more like a race.  The trail runs I tend to slow down a bit and stay in my comfort zone and enjoy the experience more.  I too don't think a 50 miler is out of the question either, just start slower and take your walk breaks.

2010-04-07 3:28 PM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
OK you guys are WAY too encouraging. I went from thinking "30 miles...could I do it?" to "50 miles...could I do it?" in a matter of seconds! Sadly I can't find any 50 milers near me in June or July (I'm in Lincoln, NE). Driving a few hours is no biggie but we definitely don't have the funds to fly anywhere. The closest I can find is at least 8 hours away by car, which would mean one day driving, one day racing, one day driving back minimum. I'm not sure if our schedules will allow for that or not. Thanks a ton for the encouragement though!
2010-04-07 4:04 PM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
I did exactly that actually.  My first Marathon was Feb 6th, a fairly hilly course (Sedona, 68.7ft/mile of vertical).  I viewed it as a training run for the 24 Hours of Utah on March 27th-28th (85.6ft/mile of vertical).

Check my race report for details on how it went and basically what I was thinking. I ended up doing 48.33miles... I'm sure I could have hobbled/limped/log-rolled/stumbled out the next 1.67 miles to do 50, but it was either another 5.37miles or nothing at all.

50k is definitely doable if you're in marathon shape.  Use this first one as an experience gainer and don't try to go out and set a course record or something.  If you can, try to find some people at the race beforehand that have 1) done ultras before and 2) have a marathon time around your own ability and then stick with them at first.  Just being on their heels will teach you a tremendous amount within the first few miles.

GO FOR IT... and remember to have fun.
2010-04-07 4:21 PM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
zionvier - 2010-04-07 4:04 PM

I did exactly that actually.  My first Marathon was Feb 6th, a fairly hilly course (Sedona, 68.7ft/mile of vertical).  I viewed it as a training run for the 24 Hours of Utah on March 27th-28th (85.6ft/mile of vertical).

Check my race report for details on how it went and basically what I was thinking. I ended up doing 48.33miles... I'm sure I could have hobbled/limped/log-rolled/stumbled out the next 1.67 miles to do 50, but it was either another 5.37miles or nothing at all.

50k is definitely doable if you're in marathon shape.  Use this first one as an experience gainer and don't try to go out and set a course record or something.  If you can, try to find some people at the race beforehand that have 1) done ultras before and 2) have a marathon time around your own ability and then stick with them at first.  Just being on their heels will teach you a tremendous amount within the first few miles.

GO FOR IT... and remember to have fun.


My friend and I almost did the Sedona half marathon this year - ended up doing the Psycho Wyco 20 miler which was much closer to home, though I'm sure not nearly as scenic!

It was good to read your race report, definitely some things I need to remember! And don't worry about me trying to set course records - when I did my 20 miles on this course it took me 6 hours. I know I will be better prepared this time around, but still!! I'll be pleased if I finish around 9 hours. It's a pretty punishing course.


2010-04-07 7:34 PM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
brynn - I'm signed up for this marathon http://www.psychowyco.com/id1.html on April 24th.  Is this the same course that your 20 miler and 50K is on?  I was hoping for hilly but not brutally hilly.
2010-04-08 7:20 AM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
jkholden - 2010-04-07 7:34 PM

brynn - I'm signed up for this marathon http://www.psychowyco.com/id1.html on April 24th.  Is this the same course that your 20 miler and 50K is on?  I was hoping for hilly but not brutally hilly.


It's not the same course. Your race is at Clinton Lake in Lawrence, and both my races will be at Wyandotte County Lake in Kansas City. I have been out to Clinton Lake (husband did KS HIM there in 2008), but when I compared the HIM course with your course it looks like you will be running on a lot of trails that he did not run on. So I can't help you out there! But the race you are doing looks beautiful, I'm sure you will do fabulous!
2010-04-08 7:40 AM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?

I did things the other way.  I did my first ultra (50 miles) last April and will be doing my first marathon May 2. 

You've already run on the trails, so you have an idea of what to expect.  Trail running is far different and really takes some specific training to do well.  How much will you be able to get out onto those trails between the marathon and the ultra run?  (Running 3-4 hours on the roads doesn't really set you up well for running 7-9 hours on the trail. ) 

I'd also suggest that a February trail run and a July trail run will be dramatically different beasts.  Heat and possibly humidity will likely play a huge role in the July run.  Both ultras I've run had daytime highs in the 50's. 

If you can get out for some 4-6 hour trail runs (mid-day) after your marathon, the ultra should be fun. 

2010-04-08 8:00 AM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
McFuzz - 2010-04-08 7:40 AM

I did things the other way.  I did my first ultra (50 miles) last April and will be doing my first marathon May 2. 

You've already run on the trails, so you have an idea of what to expect.  Trail running is far different and really takes some specific training to do well.  How much will you be able to get out onto those trails between the marathon and the ultra run?  (Running 3-4 hours on the roads doesn't really set you up well for running 7-9 hours on the trail. ) 

I'd also suggest that a February trail run and a July trail run will be dramatically different beasts.  Heat and possibly humidity will likely play a huge role in the July run.  Both ultras I've run had daytime highs in the 50's. 

If you can get out for some 4-6 hour trail runs (mid-day) after your marathon, the ultra should be fun. 



I live 3 hours away from the trails, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to get out and run on them or not. We are about to get a couple of foster kids coming and living with us, so we have to get permission to leave the state, etc. etc. and I'm not sure how all that is going to work!

I do live in an area with very hilly dirt roads, so after my marathon in May I will probably train almost exclusively on those. I know it's not quite the same, but that's really the only thing comparable around here. The only "trails" we have used to be railroad tracks, so they are pretty flat for the most part. Good call on trying to do long runs mid-day though - that's a good idea and will help me better prepare for the potential heat! Thankfully the course will be pretty well shaded, but that also means there probably will not be very much of a breeze because of all the trees.
2010-04-09 12:41 AM
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Subject: RE: First ultra 2 months after first marathon?
Brynn
Get Pete Pfitzinger's book on Advance Marathoning to give you ideas on recovery after the first race and training for the 2nd.  He has a whole chapter devoted to running 2nd marathons within 4 to 12 weeks after the first, and as you say, a 50K is basically an elongated marathon, so the same principles apply.  If you don't want to buy the book, read through his articles posted on runningtimes.com.

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