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2005-11-06 11:00 AM

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: so, why do i feel guilty?
today i ran into an old friend i haven't seen in about 3 years. she gave me a halting hug and a chilled greeting. 'how are you doing?' i asked 'not good' she said, and left.

i had recently received an email from her, an email she sent to lots of other folks, asking for letters vouching for her mothering skills. she is in the middle of a nasty divorce and wanted letters in order to fight custody issues with her husband. i didn't respond to the email, not even to extend my sympathies.

why not? i was uncomfortable replying to say 'sorry to hear it' but then not sending a letter of support. i couldn't send a letter of support because i didn't think i had enough knowledge of her or her family to write something. we were in a playgroup together once a week for about a year or so. i haven't seen her in over 3 years. i saw her mother her daughter on a very limited scale via the playgroup. this didn't seem to be enough experience with which to vouch for her in court, especially since it wasn't just about this daughter, but her other two children from a previous marriage whom i only even met once.

i think i feel guilty because she was very cold towards me when i saw her. i'm sure there is a lot going on in her life, but it took me by surprise. i probably should have responded to her email, but the idea made me uncomfortable.

i probably also feel guilty because this is the second time this has happened in my life. years ago, a friend from college asked people for the same sort of letters, and again - i didn't respond. i had only met one of her children, from her first marriage, and she asked for letters regarding that child and two from her second marriage as that marriage was breaking up. i had only met one of these other children once, when that child was a baby. i only met that husband once, since i was living in another state at the time. i knew she tried as best she could, but i didn't really know what that home life was like since we had only limited contact with one another.

if my marriage were to fall apart (god forbid), i'm sure i would want the help and support of my friends. however, i would only ask for this particular kind of support (letter for the court) from those who really know me and my children, who have spent time with me and and my girls, spent time in our home, etc. just the fact that these women are reaching out to people like me, people who were more acquaintances than friends, makes me even less inclined to write letters of support ('why are they asking me when i haven't seen them in years and don't know their children?'). then again, i'm not in their shoes and maybe i've been a royal a** and owe both of these women an apology for not stepping up when they were in need.


2005-11-06 12:33 PM
in reply to: #279068

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T1
Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
IMHO, I don't think you owe either of these women an apology. If it was me, I would have dropped a line just stating that I didn't feel I had enough exposure to comment on their mothering skills. You don't have to do that, though. It is also important that the kids get what is best for them. You didn't see the mothering skills, so you couldn't even have an informed view (albeit limited) of what was best for the kids. I wouldn't want someone writing a letter who didn't know the situation, and they shouldn't expect that either. Don't feel you have to help them no matter what just b/c you used to be friends back in the day or because they are have ovaries and are going through a tough divorce.
Don't think about it any more and realize although they both have a lot of hard things going on in their lives, you are not really friends with them any more and your letter would not have helped that much anyway because it would be a view of something you saw years ago or never saw at all.




2005-11-06 1:21 PM
in reply to: #279068

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Master
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Savannah,
Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
Nope, don't feel guilty. Chances are if she was asking play-moms for support letters, her mothering skills were in question for a reason. Better to not get involved. Be happy with yours.
2005-11-06 3:43 PM
in reply to: #279068

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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
You have no reason to feel guilty for the exact reasons you've stated. You made a sound decision based on the information at hand.
2005-11-06 11:32 PM
in reply to: #279068

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Champion
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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?

It should also be noted that it's a bit presumptious on her part that you WOULD write such a letter, and to be offended (if she was) that you didn't.  It certainly put you on the spot, and I can't really blame you for not responding at all.  I'm sure there was a concern on your part that even if you wrote a note saying "I can't really do this because..." she would respond with some kind of guilt trip or begging and not let it go.

I think you use the term "friend" a bit loosely here as well, though.  I don't consider anyone a "friend" unless I know them well enough to write such a letter.  Otherwise, they're some one I know, or an aquaintance, etc.  But that's just me.

I say it's time for you to take the next exit off the guilt highway.

2005-11-06 11:39 PM
in reply to: #279068

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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
Eh, we do letters like this for sorority life all the time. Thing is, the situation is very rare (i.e. when a non-direct legacy comes through and we "should" know about it). So when we get a letter saying we have a legacy or a non-direct legacy coming through recruitment, that person is "vouching" for your ability to be an effective sister. When we are deciding who we are extending bids to, many times a sister has to vouch for a candidate, and support her to the rest of the group. In both cases, you are saying "with my membership, I would initiate this woman...". It's a big responsibility, and one that we take seriously. Recommendations are not required here, but if you've got one, it carries a lot of weight. It has me thinking about what my word means and what my character is judged on.

Translation: Don't ever sign your name to something you don't fully know, understand, or support.


2005-11-07 9:13 AM
in reply to: #279068

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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
Well, you feel guilty....
<< i didn't respond to the email, not even to extend my sympathies. >>
She asked for help, you felt unconfortable and decided to avoid the whole thing. At least a reply to the e-mail would've been polite.
I think that if I was in similar position I would ask help from people I know. I understand anyone can get pretty desperate in those cases. I wouldn't ask anyone to lie, but I would ask people I've been in contact with... For instance, I haven't seen many of my coworkers interact with their kids, but I know abouth their concerns, they way the talk about their kids, etc, etc....
Did she asked you to lie? You could've write a letter describing your limited experience, without lying, then she could've decide to use the document or or not...
On the other hand, it seems this person is not close to you, some friends are just "old", maybe the friendship is not that important (otherwise you would've done something for her )
It is one of those cases... Damned if you do, dammed if you don't....
2005-11-07 11:08 AM
in reply to: #279068

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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
Autumn,
don't feel guilty....I agree with everything you said.

But I do have to say it never ceases to amaze me how lax and lazy we have become ever since this form of communication, email, came about. With something as serious as what this woman is going through why couldn't she pick up the phone and call these friends of hers and ask for their support? To send out a blanket email smacks me as just plain lazy, especially when dealing with something as serious as custody of her children. Sorry, don't mean to be uber-intense but my hackles have been raised...when it comes to my kid I'd be banging down doors and rallying the troops.

2005-11-07 2:00 PM
in reply to: #279324

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
madkat - 2005-11-06 10:32 PM

I think you use the term "friend" a bit loosely here as well, though. I don't consider anyone a "friend" unless I know them well enough to write such a letter. Otherwise, they're some one I know, or an aquaintance, etc. But that's just me.


you're quite right. even when we were seeing each other at play group, she was more of an aquaintance. when the old college friend asked 6 years ago, i was able to reply with a 'hope things get better' and decline writing a letter because i knew her well enough (albeit several years ago) to know she would be able to accept that response with no hard feelings or guilt trips. i had no idea how this woman would react, so i procrastinated over responding because i had no idea what to say. that in and of itsef says a lot.
2005-11-07 2:25 PM
in reply to: #279068

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
thanks for all your replies. she ended up emailing me explaining her reaction. she was hurt because she had expected a response from me, as well as others, and was loaded with some hurtful comments and venting about how no one supports her. against my best judgement, i replied and apolgized that i hadn't acknowledged her original request (in a way, its like when someone dies - its hard to find words, but its better to say something than nothing). i was at a loss for words and needed time to figure out how to tactfully decline writing a letter, since i didn't feel comfortable or qualified, and that i truly hoped things improved for her. this was enough to put closure on the situation without it turning into a wasps nest. sher replied with a 'thank you'.

after that, i ended up being frustrated about the whole thing for a bit, and the mental energy it consumed. grouching to myself 'she never contacted me afte fiona was born, made no effort to maintain a freindship with me or many of the other women she emailed (she left the playgroup after a spat with another mom, and didn't stay in contact with anyone after that- but i can also say it didn't leave a void in my life in the least, since we weren't close), etc.' then i let it go.

tracey, you nailed it with this: Translation: Don't ever sign your name to something you don't fully know, understand, or support. VERY true, especiallly when it comes to someone else's family!

nancy, i hadn't even thought about the medium she used to communicate with us. the women who know me and my girls wouldn't need an email. as they would have known long before that point about what was going on in my life and marriage. they would be with me in person to show their support.

thanks for all your words. it was a really uncomfortable situation for me. it was very helpful to talk to my friends, including my friends here at bt, in order to figure out what to do.
2005-11-07 6:31 PM
in reply to: #279859

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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
was she asking you to sign something pre-written, or to write a letter? because in a letter, you can state what you do know and on what basis:

e.g., "I observed this mother in a play-group setting from date x to date y. At that time she displayed ___ and ___. I (did/did not) observe her act in an abusive manner towars the child/children at that time."

"Signed."

Believe it or not, that sort of very concrete information is more helpful to a judge than, "Jenny is my best friend since we were in kindergarden and she would never do anything to hurt her children!" And usually that is all the court needs; she's not asking you to appear as a witness or anything.

Maybe she was asking you to sign a specific form or something? That would be a different story. Usually an attorney writes that stuff and if it's not your words then no.

But if no-one responded to a request for LETTERS because they didn't want to get involved, I can see why she'd be upset. Then she's potentially losing her kids, and feels alone in the world. She didn't hear anything from you, so doesn't know whether to think you think she's just a terrible mom. For all she knows you've given an affidavit to the husband saying, "she's a terrible mom." No wonder she doesn't want to talk to you when she bumps into you at the market.

I dunno. Am so rarely the dissenting voice here, but I can see her side. I think the email you wrote explaining WHY you didn't respond the first time was the right thing to do. I don't think "feeling guilty" is ever helpful, and you've done what you can to set this right from this point forward, but there is more to think about (maybe for the rest of us) in the story.

Edited to add: the above does not excuse the venom in her second email to you. That would be hard to take, no matter what. But it's clearly where she's at now; divorces do things to people.


Edited by CitySky 2005-11-07 6:33 PM


2005-11-07 6:47 PM
in reply to: #280042

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
she was asking for a letter, but asking for one regarding all three children (i'd only known one of the children via the playgroup 3+ years ago), and also the relationship between her two daughters (which i never witnessed). she also needed the letters within 2 days of her email, which would not have been enough time for me to gather my thoughts and write something. i know a couple of the women she contacted wrote letters. i also didn't intend to ignore her request, i just needed time to think about how to respond in a tactful way to someone i knew in such a limited capacity several years ago. i ran into her (for the first time in 3+ years) before i had even had a chance to form a response into thought. she was asking for more than my knowledge and experience was able to provide. at the time i knew her, i didn't know anything about her home life or her other children, and have no idea what has happened in the years since. even saying that she did not see 'her act in an abusive manner towards that child at that time' wouldn't have felt comfortable for me. i've written letters for other things (adoption, mainly) and it was easy to say 'yes', but in this instance i didn't even know why i had been asked.
2005-11-08 9:27 AM
in reply to: #280056

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Subject: RE: so, why do i feel guilty?
Well, you are just a human being trying to do what is right. The truth is, we cannot make everyone happy. You feel bad because this lady is in trouble and you are a nice person. Custody battles are nasty, parents trying to hurt each other using their own kids. Everyone loose. So sad
The important thing is that you have your values and you live by then.

Edited by clflgrl 2005-11-08 9:27 AM
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