marathon pace help

The best gauge to use is Jorge's ........

HIM run split should be equivalent to your stand alone mary. time.

Oly. run split should be equivalent to your stand alone 1/2 mary. time.

Sprint run split should be equivalent to your stand alone 10k time.

So if you have a HIM where you successfully ran well, then use those mile splits as your estimated mary. pace.

What have your long runs been at?  That is also a good reference point to work from.

Thanks!  I think that I'll go ahead use my recent HIM pace as a gauge.  I've only had two sort of long runs this go around, and they've been at 11:10 and 10:20 paces.  But, my boyfriend and I have been more focused on chatting than finishing the miles .

Give this site a try: www.runcalculator.com

You'll need a previous 5K PR or equivalent and your weekly bike and run volume for the last 6 weeks.  The calculator uses an average of your best 2 weeks of volume (bike and run) in the past 6 weeks of training.  I find the run predictor typically predicts a shorter finish time, but this site www.triathloncalculator.com has typically been within 10 minutes of predicting a realistic triathlon finish time.

Thanks!  I've used the tri version twice before, and it's been within 5 minutes for me both times.  I didn't know they had a running one as well.

I've never used a pace calculator to determine what I should run in a race.

I think you're better off having a general goal, and not worrying too much about your mile splits.

I agree with that as far as racing goes (just personal philosophy), but what about training runs?  My plan calls for me to go at my marathon pace.  How would you determine that?

If you are training by HR and plan on running by it in the race, it is effectively different.  Your race day average HR at the same pace will be slightly higher than the same pace on a training run.

However, if you plan on "racing" the 1/2 to your best time, then you should be very close to your training LT the entire run.  Maybe only 2 or 3 beats under at most.  Example is my LT is right around 180-ish.  My last stand alone 1/2 I averaged near 177 or so.  And set a huge PR while I was at it .....

Well, personally, I don't like race pace workouts that use projected race pace.  That being said, having a general goal in mind, you can use that to set a pace and use the workout to determine if you're being realistic or not.

Keep in mind, you're doing an Intermediate plan, so the understanding is that you have a certain level of experience at running the marathon, and would have a more current marathon (or other race time) to use as a determinant.  You don't have to do a race pace workout; I never did when I used Higdon's plan.

Daremo...I did an LT test tonight and established 166 as my LT. THis was my avg over 21 min...3 miles. 

 I am still new to this long distance running but this test was fairly painful towards the end.  Should I be able to run 13.1 at LT?

I am planning on using that number as a "do not surpass" # for the race this weekend (my first half).  

thoughts...

According to both Daniels and Pfitzinger, the pace you should be able to run a 1/2 at (or 15k for slower runners) is right at your LT.  Again, as you mentioned, not above, but right at or under it.

The problem is ...... it takes a whole lot of mental fortitude to run for that long right on the edge.

It ain't fun!!

IMO your pace for the test is much more valuable 7 min/mile for 21 min (if measured accurate) and if properly trained it would indicate you should be able to hold 7:40-7:50s for the half marathon. 8s min/mile seems or a bit slower seems reasonable if your training hasn't been consistent (again given the result from your test and assuming the distance was accurate)

Yep.  My last 1/2-marathon, I ran the first 10 miles about 2-3bpm under LTHR.  Then pushed hard to hit LT for the last 5k.  My average HR for the race was 168bpm vs. LT of 170...  The result was nearly puking at the finish to PR by about 4 mintues with a 1:36...