Advice for Your Own Dog Biting You

Hmmmm.... that's a tough call.

We have one with the similar, bratty, stubborn personality - she's a hardhead and doesn't respond to the same stimuli our other ones do (we have 3). She's on an invisible fence and she yelps and runs right through it when she feels like it... ON PURPOSE.

Were you rough with him? Some dogs simply don't respond well to negative feedback, like spanking/hitting. They feel threatened and it makes them even more stubborn! They need positive reinforcement instead.

Our one dog bit my husband in a similar instance; he just let it go and has been trying to discipline her in a different way. It hasn't happened since (that was a few months ago) and she's been more responsive. We basically reward her for being good and ignore her (and tell her NO) when she's bad.

I'm surprised a shephard would be so stubborn.. we have two hounds.. what a nightmare.. they are most stubborn breed EVER. LOL

~ Adrienne

Edited by AdrienneP 2005-08-31 4:26 PM

That's bizarre. Anything change recently in his environment? Were you just crating him and he turned on you and bit? What were you disciplining him about? How did you react when he bit (other than the obvious screams of pain)? How old is he?

he was digging in our sod

nothing new in his enviorment, no new food
im going to give the positive reenforcment a try

I would just drop it at this point because the dog won't understand why it's being punished. You have to let the dog know immediately that their bad behavior is unacceptable. I would highly recommend enrolling in an obedience class. They can help you train your dog and show you how to appropriately discipline him. I brought my German Shepherd, Zavi (see avatar) to classes for about six months (although you probably don't need to go that long) and she's very happy, friendly, and (most of the time) obedient. You might want to check out a couple books by The Monks of New Skete: "The art of raising a puppy" and "How to be your dog's best friend: The classic training manual for dog owners". Good luck!

Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but you should know what to do when a dog bites.

Although it's completely unnatural, the best thing to do is shove your arm or hand back in their mouth. They choke and let go. Here are a couple of posts from an on-line friend of mine from SLC who goes by the internet name "straydog". (btw rnc = rear naked choke, just wrap your arm around the throat and compress)



ok, guys, got my name for a reason. i've been attacked by lots of dogs, and i've attacked a few myself (like the akita that pinned my toy pomerranian at the dog park last year, or the bull mastiff that chest butted my ridgeback from the blindside).

first of all, pit bulls: i've only had one attack me (three years ago, almost to the day): i allowed him to live, in fact, i didn't even have to hurt him. pit bulls fight each other like this: one grabs on, say, an ear. if the other gets his neck, however, he'll drop the ear and try to get the other's neck/throat. once they feel they're at a disadvantage, they'll either a) go for a better grip, or b) submit.

in my case, a pit bull started after my shepsky, which is an extremely stupid thing to do for any dog of any size, much less a puny pit bull. anyway, i separated them by getting low and pushing against their chests before either had latched on. i thought everything was ok when i looked over at my dog, and WHAM!, the pb latched onto my elbow. ouch! all i had to do was let go of biff and the pb would have been toast, but since he didn't take my face (he could have had it), i decided to let him live. i kept ahold of my dog with my left arm, then with my right, still in the vise grip of the pitbull, i twisted my forearm around until i could grab the back of his neck, twisted the flesh there and pushed down until his throat touched the ground. (this hurt like hell!!!) as soon as his throat barely touched ground, he let go and was my instant friend. the owner came over and explained that he had only had the dog for three months and the previous owner had abused it quite viciously, so the dog was just afraid i was going to hurt him and that's why he latched onto my arm. i had holes in my elbow for just over a year.

always choke a dog or occlude its airway in some way if attacked. i've used this several dozen times, both as a real small, skinny kid and as an adult and it works every time. twice i've jammed my fingers down german shepherds' throats and the fight just went out of them. i've choked a bunch more, and at least one i just clamped onto the end of its snout after it took my arm and it was whining in seconds. something that happened
recently, a pitbull attacked a woman's small dog that happened to be on a leash. the woman first broke both the pitbull's hips simultaneously by twisting the legs out, with no effect on the pitbull (i could have told her that), so she put the old rnc on it and squeezed 'til it died, and unlike all the urban legends you hear, pitbulls are not supernatural, and when they die, they're dead and their muscles relax, just as this one's did, the dead pit bull let go and the woman was able to save her dog.

kicking and punching and even eye gouging don't do any good against an aggressive dog. i would recommend spraying with water over that (but this does NOT work on pitbulls or akitas, and probably not chows).

real big dogs, like akitas and malamutes, seem to have very poor lateral motion. you might find this useful information if you get backed into a corner by one (keep on stepping to the side). akitas, chows and pitbulls tend to lock their jaws on you. thank god if they do, because, contrary to a lot of things that are being said, an adult human can always beat a dog, even if the fight's to the death, and that goes for a relatively small human (say, 100 pounds) against a very large dog (say, 165 pounds). a dog that latches onto you is a dog that's given you its neck, throat, back, head, legs, ears, testicles, etc. i would recommend choking with your arms as in an rnc or standing triangle, or with your free hand if the other hand is in the jaws of the dog, or clamp it over the snout and squeeze as hard as you can, or shove your hand down the dog's throat, or press an elbow or knee into its throat, etc. always cut off an airway, always, and if it doesn't let go in a couple of seconds, keep the pressure on 'til it does.

the bad dogs to fight, imo, are the ones who lunge in, bite hard leaving a deep wound, and lunge out, all as fast as a rattlesnake strikes, literally. german shepherds are a good example of this. hounds (like ridgebacks) do this very well, also. they can shred your legs with impunity, they're just so quick. it's very hard to fight them and inflict damage on them unless you can close and get a grip on them.

but i would always rely on the choke.

always guard your face and groin. these are the two favorite spots for a dog that really wants to inflict damage on you or kill you. always, always, always protect these spots. and while you're guarding your face, you're also guarding your throat.

in a multiple dog attack, i can't offer any advice. i've intervened in fights where eight adult non-neutered male dogs were fighting (three were rottweilers), and i've had multiple dogs run at me only to have only one attack, on several occassions. i've been stalked by feral dogs in winter in maine (one was in ambush ahead of me, another behind tailing me, but i circled around some trees and got the drop on the tail dog, a pitbull/lab mix, before we got to the ambush site -- boy, was it embarrassed!). but i wouldn't know what to do in a multiple dog attack, unless i was near a body of water, then i'd be in it, with the dogs attached to me or not.

but always, 1) protect your face and groin, and 2) cut off an airway if a dog does attack. be aggressive as hell and just kill its ass if you have to. dogs are extremely quick, so keep your face away until you have the dog in your control.

so far, i haven't had to hurt a dog and i've been able to let go and i can't remember any attacking after i 'submitted' them, even when i was just a kid, but this is a judgement call on your part. if you are letting go of a live dog, just keep your face away as you do. i guess i could always tell that the fight had gone out of them, so i felt safe in letting go.

hope this helps, dogs are much easier to fight, imo, than people. bears and cougars are a different matter.

you'll find a dog's neck much tougher than a man's, and a rnc might actually damage the neck muscles/structure if you try to compress it hard, so i just go with the hand around the throat, or, in cases where i've been bitten and the hand is in the mouth, i shove hard like a spearhand down the throat. i've done this twice with wonderful results. it's totally unexpected. i wouldn't try this with a shark, however. it would just swallow and smile.

i'll see if i can dig up something about the super chick who saved her dog from the pitbull. yeah, some chicks are tough with animals. i knew one vet that kept both of her 140-pound non-neutered malamutes under control by grabbing their nuts, but i wouldn't suggest this approach.

as for dogs being able to twist around and bite your face, yeah, you have to be careful, but be aggressive and get a firm hold. also, watch out for sharpei's, that's just why they're a fighting breed is because of all those folds of fat (which mostly disappear by the time they're adults but there's still a lot of fat left). my understanding is that pitbulls get a nasty surprise when they latch onto the neck of a sharpei, and the sharpei turns around and bites through the snout of the pitbull while the pitbull still has a hold of the sharpei. i haven't seen this happen yet, and i hate dogfighting, but there have been a few pitbulls that i would like to see learn this lesson.

note: if you have a good hold of it from behind, it's hard for a dog to bite you. that's why if you're administering first aid to an injured dog, you kneel behind it to take its pulse, etc.

On the National Geographic channel there is a show called the Dog Whisperer.  Cesar Milan works with unruly/ bad behavior dogs..All sizes and types.    Seems to me that his approach is to establish who is the Alpha/the boss...

I'm not an expert, but yes definitly find a dog expert and get help.  The dog is being a dog, just have to find out what's going on with their head.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/

Edited by BellinghamSpence 2005-08-31 5:41 PM

no ER, just old school alchohol and gauze,it looks like it cleaned up pretty well

Im going to get him re-enrolled in school and maybe get him into some kind of hobby to keep him out of trouble, building model cars or catching tennis balls or something

You might want to look into clicker training. I personally haven't used it on a dog (but have used it to train a cockatiel, if you can believe such a thing!) but it's really straightforward. I've had excellent results with it and I know some people who swear by it. If you google "clicker training" you should be able to come up with some websites. Or you can head to your local pet store and they should have some books and clickers.

Just another option worth looking into.

I hate to sound like a mom...since I am not even one yet...BUT GO TO THE ER!!!!!

I had to be on REALLY STRONG antibiotics for 10 days to prevent infection...dog bites are very very serious....

I agree that the crate is a happy place for the dog and should not be used for discipline.

First, two questions: what do you mean by "white stuff"? Are you talking bone or connective tissue? If so, be very careful - err on the side of extreme caution and go to the doctor.
And, do you have children in the household? If the dogs are not getting along that could put the kids in a bad spot between them. Take care.

That said, I'm suprised that an Aussie would actually bite it's owner. Yes, they can be high-strung, especially so young. I hate to say it, but that 30 minute walk just may not be enough for him. As I'm sure you know, this is a serious working dog that needs serious focus and purpose, and lots and lots of physical activity.

Along with revisiting some training work as you've said, maybe you can find a dog obstacle course and/or a local group that does hearding training for such dogs. Sounds like the dog is acting out because he doesn't have a sense of what his role is, what his work is, and how the pack works together.

It's certainly worth putting the work in for this dog. But I also encourage you to really take a hard look at your own lifestyle, interests, schedule limitations and determine if you've really got the time to put extra work into this one animal. If not, it's not fair to you or him to keep him in a home where he is confused, frustrated and embattled, and where the people and other animals feel nervous, resentful and perhaps fearful.

I do not believe that people should be martyrs to animals. We make a choice to bring them into our homes, but somtimes the fit isn't right. You are not failing him if you make the decision that it cannot work. There are countless groups who work to place Aussies and other working dogs in working environemnts where they can really shine. I'm saying this as worst case scenario of course!

I sincerely hope you can find a way to work it out with your little friend, I'm sure you love him and he loves you.

BTW, I'm on Aussie #2 so I kinda know how they are. :)

I also recommend Ceasar Milan - Dog Whisperer.






Edited by newbiedoo 2005-09-01 8:08 AM

Any chance the dog has been mistreated while you're not around? Some years ago, a buddy had a similar incident where the dog's attitude changed (somewhat suddenly), and seemed to be getting worst very quickly. The dog had always been very passive and obedient.

Turns out his teenage boys (which I can't stand to this day), where having fun with the dog by abusing it:
Hitting it
Used it for target practice with anything they could toss at it from their 2nd story bedroom
Throwing lit firecrakers at it
Etc.

One day (about a month into the abuse), a neighbor approached my buddy and told him very angrily "If you guys continue treating the dog like that, I'm going to take him to some one that will care for him and then the ASPCA on you! I have you all on tape!"
Only then did he realize what was happening. To ensure the dog would not be mistreated again, he gave the dog to someone that loves him dearly to this day. My buddy was and is still heart broken and so visits the dog from time to time. Says he is back to his vibrant, happy self again.