Tri Bike without bar end shifters?

WHY don't you like the idea of aero bar end shifters?

It just seems that shifting gears in the middle of big climbs would be pretty troublesome. I tend to spend a lot of time on the horns and out of aero.

** edited to add: When looking at my last sentence, I have a new question. Would tri-geometry only be beneficial if you spend the majority of your time in aero position?

Edited by wdpresta 2009-06-26 10:46 AM

Fair enough, but I can tell you it isn't. Not that I do a lot of big climbs. What is troublesome is having to break aero to shift gears.

IMHO the reason for a tri bike and geometry is to maximize a balance of your power, comfort and aerodynamics, so I'd have to answer your last question with a YES. If you're not going to ride in the aero position, get a road bike.

Edited by the bear 2009-06-26 10:49 AM

I have a Cervelo S1 that was set up as a road bike. I have since bought a second seat post, a tri saddle and clip on aerobars (no bar end shifters). 

I am not sure I will ever ride this bike again as a pure road bike. I live in a valley in upstate NY so where ever I go I have hills. I can still get out of the saddle and use the hoods when I want, but I can relax in the aero position on the flats. 

I am a little faster on the aerobars, but the bigger advantage for me is the way I feel on the run. This is like night and day as the tri geometry puts you ahead of the pedals and opens the core up.

I am considering going to an integrated handlebar with brakes and shifters on the aerobars. 

Kevin   

There is no scientific basis to this statement, or that riding a tribike helps your run.

Yes, Bear is right on the money. If you are not staying in aero either force yourself to or get a road bike.

I don't think it's wise to setup a TT bike with road shifters. Every time you move your hand to the shifters you *are* coming out of aero and losing time. Just the fact that you'll be running road bars will make the bike less aero. And, TT bikes are not designed to be run with road bars so you will be altering the designed geometry.

IMO, if the course is such that a TT bike isn't ideal, then just ride a road bike with clip-ons.

I also would never personally alter the geometry of a road bike with a seat post. Until this season, I've always ridden a slack road geometry with clip-ons. I've always been able to get a fairly aggressive aero position, split at FOP, and my road bike retains all the handling qualities for which it was designed.

This season I am racing on a steep angled TT bike and it's been a a more significant transition than I expected including getting used to the shifters, but I'm confident that I'll soon have everything dialed in on the TT bike for tri racing on flat courses.

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like it would be much easier and more beneficial to ride a road bike with clip ons. I understand I would receive less of an aero benefit than if I stayed aero on a true TT bike the entire race, but thought the steeper geometry may make aero position more comfortable whether it provides more aero benefits or not. Maybe (when the time comes for a new bike), I could just look out for a road bike with a slightly steeper geometry. Thanks for the help.

Check out the pic of my bike on my log (hopefully you can see it).  In the pic my bike still had the shifters on the drops.  I did end up moving the shifters to the aero's.   I will tell you that moving the bar end shifters to the aero's was a big improvement for me.  Yes I could shift with putting my hand down to the drops but having them on the aeros is so much easier.  I guess I need to update my log pic!

Why not? Everyone is different, and adjusting the seat, seatpost, bars, etc. is part of getting fit for a bike. No one setup will work for everyone, or we'd all just be riding the same bike. I ride a dedicated TT bike that I already had at 76*, with me riding at about 79*, and I am probably going to work towards going to a FFC seat post, adjusting the angle to 79*-ish, and riding somewhere in the low 80*s. I've got 1 ride in on the new setup, and I'm liking it so far, but I only have moved the seat 2cm further so far, but that allowed me to flipflop my stem to get my bars a bit lower with no discomfort.

Because IMO when you rotate the rider forward say 4 degrees on a bike that was designed in terms of frame, fork, bars, etc to have a specific geometry, you've shifted weight forward where it was not designed to be and so you end up with something that is now not "as designed" for either road or TT.


Yes that is true. When I said "I" above, I meant "me". I do a lot of climbing and high speed descents. I want my road bike to ride exactly as it was designed. I have it fitted for road and when I get on my clip-on aero bars it just reduces my hip angle. My weight does not shift forward. I do have to ride a few degrees "stretched out" in aero but that's the only way I've ever ridden in aero so it feels perfect to me.


I meant I wouldn't try to turn a road bike that is designed to be ridden at say 73-74 degrees into steep angled geometry with a seat post like a Fast Forward. IMO, that is not the same as "fitting" a bike. Again, I'm just talking about "me".


I also have a TT bike that I'm riding at ~78 degrees as its geometry was designed to be ridden. The two bikes are like night and day in terms of handling.

I don't disagree that a TT specific geometry will handle better with the higher angle than a road specific frame. Yes, getting fit for a bike with the seat angle in mind would be better than trying to take any old road bike and add a forward seat post, but 4mm won't make a huge difference. Most seats have at least that much play in the rails, and there are many companies (Cervelo especially) that take great pride in the fact that they have a "feature" in certain models that allows you to flip flop the seatpost (ok, use a different mounting point) to change from road geometry to TT geometry.

Alot of times the handling can be "fixed" on a "converted" bike by changing the rake of the forks - that's the real secret. More rake, less "twitchy", less rake and more "twitchy". Best example of this - I roadraced motorcycles in the supersport and superbike categories at a national/pro level - think of the difference in the rake of a sportbike from a Harley. The Harley has alot of rake, where the sportbike has very little. You could not expect the Harley to be as nimble as a sportbike, but the Harley is more stable. My TT bike has alot more rake in the fork than my street bike. As a result, my TT bike is more stable, but can not turn as well as my roadbike.

Move a roadbike seat forward, swap forks, drop the bars accordingly for the moved seat and you will have a bike that will handle every bit as good as a TT specific geometry, as a matter of fact, it will infact be the TT specific geometry (if you've swapped the fork). Just moving the seat, lowering the bars, adding aerobars will put more weight on a bike with very little rake and it will be more "twitchy", which would be fixed by changing the rake, putting the center of gravity at the correct ratio between the front/rear wheels, allowing for the same stability as a TT bike.

Yeah, I'm rambling, but it's late, I can't sleep, and I've had a couple of Landshark Lagers (by couple, I mean 2 - which is 2 more than I drank for the first 5 months of the year - it was HOT today, and it just sounded refreshing).

If you really want, I can create a diagram to further explain why changing the fork is the real fix, but if you think about it, it should not be necessary.




Edited by tjtryon 2009-06-26 11:43 PM

IMO when you start going down that road you are now taking on the role of a bike designer. I have no doubt that some people here can do that effectively (EG. Daremo). I can not. IMO, a bike is designed with all the parts working together to produce certain ride characteristics (and of course within the constraints of price). I'd prefer to just have two bikes and ride them as designed, with some minor upgrades that don't signficantly change the ride characterics. But again that's just my preference and I respect/understand other opinions on the issue.

And honestly, I learned in my last race where I crashed badly that having two bikes has it's disadvantages too since I think part of my crash was due to having more weight forward on my TT bike than I'm used too, in combo with different (and less worn) brakes on the Zipp wheels.


A couple beers in the evening is guaranteed insomnia for me. It's the main reason I don't drink much at all.