Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?

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2009-11-23 5:09 PM

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Buttercup
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Subject: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
Governor Sanford of SC is facing impeachment for the following alleged violations of SC law:
  • 27 counts of upgrading his flight from coach to business class
  • 9 counts of using SC State aircraft for non-state business
    • To the Anderson County Republican Party dinner
    • Flying staff member and himself to an event (they don't say which event) that was not state business
    • To a book signing
    • Birthday party of a campaign contributor
    • Flying family members and himself from WV to GA for a personal weekend
    • To attend son's sporting event
    • To attend South Carolina House Republican Caucus Legislative reception
    • To attend Reason Weekend dinner
    • Flying wife, son and others to opening of Hard Rock Park
  • Alleged misuse of campaign funds
    • $40 reimbursement without a receipt
    • $329.40 to attend Alfalfa Club Dinner in DC
    • $610.30 reimbursement to campaign staffer to attend 2007 Republican Governors Association meeting
    • $181.23 reimbursed to state (governors mansion expenses) for direct marketing services and use of telephone, internet, cable
    • $280.16 for same
    • $298.89 for same
    • $864.0 to attend Republican Governors Association meeting in FL, and a hunting trip in Ireland
    • $79.95 for direct marketing services
    • $96.95 for direct marketing services and ticket to Presidential Inauguration (did he travel by Greyhound bus?)
    • $159.90 for direct marketing services

Seriously? Upgrading from coach to business is an impeachable offense? Representing the state at the RGA meeting is not official state business?

They examined his expense reports for how many years and this is the most damning "evidence" they could find for impeaching their governor? There are a couple of flights on state aircraft that seem to be improper/unacceptable if you accept them at face value, but are these valid reasons to impeach the governor? Seriously?

I understand they want to run him out of town on a rail, but seems to me if they can't present a compelling case for impeachment they should just shut-up already. This seems like nothing but theatrical vendetta and personalizing the law because your guy embarassed your party.
 



Edited by Renee 2009-11-23 5:13 PM

2009-11-23 5:17 PM
in reply to: #2527932

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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
Just like they got Capone for tax violation. I don't know anything about it, I guess he refuses to step down and is forcing their hand? Guess the South American affair, and his lying about where he was, didn't violate any laws.
2009-11-23 5:19 PM
in reply to: #2527932

Regular
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
No the above do not justify the punishment.

Butt.

The single greatest issue ignored is:  As the military commander of the SC National Guard the horndog gov. abandoned his post.

2009-11-23 5:20 PM
in reply to: #2527932

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Master
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
It's enough for me. BTW, he didn't embarass my party, he embarassed the office of the Governor.
2009-11-23 5:22 PM
in reply to: #2527932

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
I dunno. I'd fire an employee for such misappropriation of funds, so why shouldn't the public via their elected reps?
2009-11-23 5:39 PM
in reply to: #2527950

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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
scoobysdad - 2009-11-23 6:22 PM I dunno. I'd fire an employee for such misappropriation of funds, so why shouldn't the public via their elected reps?


Oh my god we agree !

9 counts of using SC State aircraft for non-state business
  • Birthday party of a campaign contributor
  • Flying family members and himself from WV to GA for a personal weekend
  • To attend son's sporting event

Using taxpayer money for totally private events? Not okay.

Edited by trishie 2009-11-23 5:41 PM

2009-11-23 5:43 PM
in reply to: #2527942

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
ChrisM - 2009-11-23 6:17 PM Just like they got Capone for tax violation. I don't know anything about it, I guess he refuses to step down and is forcing their hand? Guess the South American affair, and his lying about where he was, didn't violate any laws.

 
This is a complaint by the State Ethics committee, not the SC Revenue service or any law enforcement agency. Seems if he had actually violated SC law, then a SC law enforcement agency of some kind would be pursuing action against him. If found guilty, then I could see an impeachment action as a valid punishment by the legislature, in addition to whatever civil penalties he would have to pay.

Maybe I don't know enough about SC law. Anyone know what kind of power the Ethics Commission holds? 

I forgot to include link to the complaint: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/us/20091123-sanford-notic...
2009-11-23 5:49 PM
in reply to: #2527932

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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
I think they're lumping the small things with the big things so that if one thing doesn't stick, something else will. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) this is known as "throwing the book" at someone. And it works.
2009-11-23 5:57 PM
in reply to: #2527942

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Master
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?

ChrisM - 2009-11-23 3:17 PM Just like they got Capone for tax violation. I don't know anything about it, I guess he refuses to step down and is forcing their hand? Guess the South American affair, and his lying about where he was, didn't violate any laws.

Chris, you remember how we do it out here---just hold a special election and recall him.

2009-11-23 6:02 PM
in reply to: #2527983

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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
Renee - 2009-11-23 3:43 PM

This is a complaint by the State Ethics committee, not the SC Revenue service or any law enforcement agency. Seems if he had actually violated SC law, then a SC law enforcement agency of some kind would be pursuing action against him. If found guilty, then I could see an impeachment action as a valid punishment by the legislature, in addition to whatever civil penalties he would have to pay.

Maybe I don't know enough about SC law. Anyone know what kind of power the Ethics Commission holds? 

I forgot to include link to the complaint: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/us/20091123-sanford-notic...

Well, if the ethics commission has the power to institute a complaint against him for impeachment, I'd say they are enforcing the lawsm and thus are at least equivalent to a law enforcement agency.

Edited by ChrisM 2009-11-23 6:04 PM
2009-11-23 6:05 PM
in reply to: #2527932

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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?

he's an public employee and he misused his position... no matter how small it may seem.  all public employees are expected not to mis-use funds...they all go through ethics training.  he knew better.

2009-11-23 6:22 PM
in reply to: #2527950

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
scoobysdad - 2009-11-23 6:22 PM I dunno. I'd fire an employee for such misappropriation of funds, so why shouldn't the public via their elected reps?


Another first. We do agree.

Elected officials hold a unique position...people have asked them to do a job on their behalf, and trusted them to do that job. He may be doing that job, but minor violations of policy/ethics violate the trust. Hence the reaction.

IMHO, elected federal officials live a charmed existence...lots of expense funds, guaranteed retirement at a very good level....the ones that are trying to eek out the next couple hundred bucks from an expense account have shown their colors. Not a good dude, not good behavior, let the punishment send a message to the rest of the cheaters. Cheaters have no place in government.
2009-11-23 6:46 PM
in reply to: #2527950

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Master
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
scoobysdad - 2009-11-23 3:22 PM I dunno. I'd fire an employee for such misappropriation of funds, so why shouldn't the public via their elected reps?


Yes, then re-call or elect out... impeach is, I believe, is based on criminal offenses.
Being a D-bag with an expense account is one thing, stealing is a higher level (even if on the same continuum.)

On both sides, I think the call to impeach is, not based on the issues of illegality of activity, but as a political hot potato.

It is starting to lose gravitas as, once one side is in office, the other side is already trying to find a reason to impeach.

2009-11-23 7:00 PM
in reply to: #2528049

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
eabeam - 2009-11-23 6:46 PM

scoobysdad - 2009-11-23 3:22 PM I dunno. I'd fire an employee for such misappropriation of funds, so why shouldn't the public via their elected reps?


Yes, then re-call or elect out... impeach is, I believe, is based on criminal offenses.
Being a D-bag with an expense account is one thing, stealing is a higher level (even if on the same continuum.)

On both sides, I think the call to impeach is, not based on the issues of illegality of activity, but as a political hot potato.

It is starting to lose gravitas as, once one side is in office, the other side is already trying to find a reason to impeach.



You have a good point. In any case, I think we can agree that this guy should not be allowed to continue to hold office. If he had any class, he'd resign and save the taxpayers the money of forcing the issue.
2009-11-23 7:04 PM
in reply to: #2528049

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Subject: RE: Do alleged violations justify proposed punishment?
eabeam - 2009-11-23 4:46 PM

scoobysdad - 2009-11-23 3:22 PM I dunno. I'd fire an employee for such misappropriation of funds, so why shouldn't the public via their elected reps?


Yes, then re-call or elect out... impeach is, I believe, is based on criminal offenses.
Being a D-bag with an expense account is one thing, stealing is a higher level (even if on the same continuum.)

On both sides, I think the call to impeach is, not based on the issues of illegality of activity, but as a political hot potato.

It is starting to lose gravitas as, once one side is in office, the other side is already trying to find a reason to impeach.



The compalint alleges with each count that it's a violation of SC law. Not sure how much more you need. I am certain there are political reasons for this, but according to the charging documents, they are crimes nonetheless

ETA - I agree with your last sentence completely

Edited by ChrisM 2009-11-23 7:05 PM
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