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2008-08-08 3:52 PM

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Subject: Can I do this?
I have been thinking a lot lately about my 2009 season. I have always wanted to run a marathon (ever since I knew what one was!) and wanted to know if one was possible for me next year. The marathon I have in mind is at the end of March- which gives me 7 months to train. I have been running for a year now (as part of my tri training) and ran a little on and off for a few years before that.

I have recently started to get more consistent with my running though and have been running at least 10-15 miles a week for the past 3 months (which is a recommended base for most of the novice programs). I have thought of making a schedule that would have me build up to 20 miles a week of running and have me do a couple half marathons. I would start mary training in January using this program: http://www.ingnycmarathon.org/training/trainingschedule.php

I am just woundering if this is possibe.

I am also wondering (if I do start mary training) how I would balance it with swim team season. I am on a year-round swin team and most of our meets are in the winter when I would be mary training. Is there a good way to balance these things or would it be too much? Would mary training affect my swimming times?

Sorry for the long post. I was just wondering what was possible for me. I would really love to do a marathon next year


2008-08-08 4:07 PM
in reply to: #1591092

Subject: Mor e Info...?
Not a marathoner, but just asking because it might help others - how many times a week do you swim? Do you swim double practices? How many weekends do you have a meet? That might make a difference. Can't help with specifics though, since I'm gearing up to do my first one in late October.

Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-08-08 4:08 PM
2008-08-08 4:29 PM
in reply to: #1591134

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Subject: RE: Mor e Info...?
wurkit_gurl - 2008-08-08 5:07 PM

Not a marathoner, but just asking because it might help others - how many times a week do you swim? Do you swim double practices? How many weekends do you have a meet? That might make a difference. Can't help with specifics though, since I'm gearing up to do my first one in late October.

I swim 4-6X a week (usally about 1.5-2 hours a practice) but have the option of swimmng 1 hour practices some nights with my school team during Nov-Feb
I don't swim double practices
I have meets Oct-March. They are not every weekend. Oct, Nov, and Feb I swim maybe 2 meets a month. Jan and Feb, they are most weekends but not all (I still have a 2 week long winter break and snow days!)
2008-08-09 3:16 PM
in reply to: #1591092

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
2008-08-09 3:40 PM
in reply to: #1591092

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?

Anything is possible if you dedicate yourself to the training and listen to your body. 

Just follow the schedule, try not to skip any runs, rest when you need it, and go for it!

2008-08-09 5:11 PM
in reply to: #1591092

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
Read Hal Higdon's "Marathon" before deciding.  He has a lot of good points for training that might help you make a more informed decision.  I've only done a half marathon, and am planning my second one this fall.  The build for a full is minimal of 20 weeks.


2008-08-09 5:18 PM
in reply to: #1591092

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
^^^^ X2. Hal higdon has lots of good information about marathons. I think you could do it with seven months to train. Good Luck!
2008-08-09 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Can I do this?

Hmm.  I guess I get to be the voice of dissent. 

Point 1.  I am absolutely certain that you could complete a marathon (and probably do relatively well) given your current mileage of 10-15 per week.  

Point 2.  I'm not stalking you, but I recall from your post a week or so ago about your first Oly that you are relatively young, and female.  

Point 3.  Because you are young and female, running the amount of miles to be sufficiently prepared for a stand alone marathon (max of 35/wk in your plan) presents certain health risks that a young man or older female would not experience. 

I'm specifically thinking of female athlete triad, which, in a nutshell, is disordered eating, reduced bone density, and amenorrhea.  There is a fair amount of debate in the running community about what sort of mileage for a young female is too much, too soon.  By putting in 35 mile weeks, you are very near that threshold. 

I would encourage you to look at your reasons for doing a marathon.  It might be better for your running in the long term to forgo the marathon until you're out of college, and work on speed between now and then. 


    

2008-08-09 8:28 PM
in reply to: #1591092

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?

I think you can do it just fine if you commit to the training. You have more than enough time to have a good base without overdoing it, and can move right into one of the 18 week programs you shared (I use one of those, btw, and it has always worked well). With your volume of swimming, you'll most definitely have to make some compromises in your schedule and it might be that your cycling suffers a bit, but you can always pick it back up after the spring mary.

On the young female front, I was 25 when I did my first marathon and while it's definitely easier for me to do now in my 30s, I didn't find there to be any health challenges at that age. Good luck and have fun with it, it's a great experience!

2008-08-09 10:52 PM
in reply to: #1592351

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
dlb3830 - 2008-08-09 7:35 PM

Hmm.  I guess I get to be the voice of dissent. 

Point 1.  I am absolutely certain that you could complete a marathon (and probably do relatively well) given your current mileage of 10-15 per week.  

I disagree.... 10 - 15 miles/week is not nearly enough to think of running a marathon.  As OP stated in her post 20 miles/week is a good STARTING point for a marathon training plan.

Point 2.  I'm not stalking you, but I recall from your post a week or so ago about your first Oly that you are relatively young, and female.  

Point 3.  Because you are young and female, running the amount of miles to be sufficiently prepared for a stand alone marathon (max of 35/wk in your plan) presents certain health risks that a young man or older female would not experience. 

I'm specifically thinking of female athlete triad, which, in a nutshell, is disordered eating, reduced bone density, and amenorrhea.  There is a fair amount of debate in the running community about what sort of mileage for a young female is too much, too soon.  By putting in 35 mile weeks, you are very near that threshold. 

I would encourage you to look at your reasons for doing a marathon.  It might be better for your running in the long term to forgo the marathon until you're out of college, and work on speed between now and then. 

again I disagree... unless you are still in high school ie. under 18 you should have no health problems if you train smart.  disordered eating, reduced bone density and amenorrhea in a young adult female  is not caused by a reasonable low mileage plan that builds progressively. (35 miles/week is low mileage for a marathon training plan) .... where did you get this info?

2008-08-09 11:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
ugghhh.... I was going to say "Go for it!" Up until the part about the year-round swim team and 1.5-2hr practices, plus meets, etc. One or both is going to suffer if you choose to do the marathon. I can tell you that on the day I did my long runs past the point of 16 miles I didn't want to do anything that day or the next day, and certainly not any kind of hard workout. But that's just me, so do with that what you will. Another thing that I consider a pre-requisite for taking on a marathon is having a good enough reason to do it; something only you can determine. If I hadn't been so driven to do one I wouldn't have made it past the half-mary point in my training. Everyone's different so I'm just telling you what I think.


2008-08-09 11:38 PM
in reply to: #1591092

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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
On your peak marathon training weeks, you will have long runs of 20 miles plus. This means a 3 or 4 hour run, just on your long run day.

You normally would be running 2 to 4 other days per week as well. Usually each of those days will be one to two hours of running.

If you weren't swimming, you could do it. But with your swimming schedule, as well as school or work.... makes for long days, and little social life.

Or skimping on either your run or swim workouts.

If you skimp on run workouts, you could probably still finish the race, it would just hurt a lot more on race day.

If you dont respect the distance ( by doing all the workouts), the distance won't respect you ( meaning you will run slower and hurt more).
2008-08-10 8:02 AM
in reply to: #1592535

Subject: RE: Can I do this?
cathyd - 2008-08-09 11:52 PM

again I disagree... unless you are still in high school ie. under 18 you should have no health problems if you train smart.  disordered eating, reduced bone density and amenorrhea in a young adult female  is not caused by a reasonable low mileage plan that builds progressively. (35 miles/week is low mileage for a marathon training plan) .... where did you get this info?

I think the OP might actually still be in high school - OP, how old are you?

Edit: The OP has a video on her profile - she's in high school.

I'm not a marathoner AT ALL, in fact, I'm training for my first right now, but my only thought would be that having meets every other weekend would conflict too much with the long runs. Unless, you put your long runs in the middle of the week. And as the plan progresses, the mid-week runs are going to get longer. Otherwise, you wouldn't want to run, say 13 miles the day before a meet (then you're fatigued for the meet) or the day after (fatigued from the meet and therefore might have a crappy run). I'm following a marathon plan now (Hal Higdon's Novice) that I've incorporated into my tri training, but I only have one race that conflicts with a "really" long run, so I will do some schedule swapping just for that week. After that triathlon is done, I'm not doing anymore for the year. That would be my concern - being too worn out from all the swimming to be rested enough to perform well during running workouts and not get injured. My sister swam competitively for many, many years, so I know what the schedule is like for them.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2008-08-10 8:05 AM
2008-08-10 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
Thanks for all the replies! I have thought a lot about what everyone has said so far. I do have a strong motivation to run a marathon. I just took some time to think about all my reasons, and listed over 20 reasons!

I have also thought about having the meet schedule conflicting with all my long runs. I figured out that if I start the marathon plan right now, I will be able to complete all the workouts on the schedule. I would just have to figure out an alternate schedule for when I have swim meets (i.e. don't run long that week, but do enough runs so that I have a pretty good week of running i.e. 2o miles a week) and pick up the plan the weeks that I do not have a swim meet on the weekend.

I also know the risks about being a young distance runner, such as not getting enough iron; however, I am really trying to eat healtier and will make sure I will get enough iron.

Is this idea still possible? I really want to run a marathon, but I don't want to do too much and hurt myself or my swim season. Will I still be ready in 7 months?

Thanks for all the replies!

P.S. I have read the Higdon book. It is great
2008-08-10 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
As a high school track/cross country coach, I STRONGLY advise you to not run a marathon at your age.

No high school athlete should attempt a marathon, regardless of ability/athletic background.

The stress of running a marathon carries over into an extended recovery period. Injuries are common during the training, and at your age, you do not want to put that much stress on your body while it is still growing. The mileage necessary to train for marathon is far too great for someone at your current level of running.

Teenagers need significantly more sleep than adults do; school schedules generally do not leave time for enough sleep. Between swim practices, early morning school classes, home work, etc - there is not enough time in the day for you to get adequate recovery. (I also am a high school teacher, so I am aware of the amount of school work that is required). If you are not getting adequate sleep your body will end up sick, injured or overtrained. The potential for major problems is quite high.

One of my track athletes decided at age 16 to start training for triathlons. I helped her balance her tri training with her indoor and outdoor track seasons. I had her swimming 3x a week, cycling 3x a week, and running 4x a week (since she had track meets every weekend from Dec - Feb and again from April - June).

She was able to get her workouts in, but it involved a lot of later nights (getting back from the pool at 8pm) and early morning workouts - and she was training for SPRINT distances. This was an incredibly high volume of training for her, and she walked a fine line between being fit and being overtrained/sick. I carefully monitored her training daily and checked in with her regarding fatigue, illness. Whenever she felt a cold coming on or felt really tired, I adjusted her training to give her the proper amount of rest. This is a very delicate balance to maintain when you are training for 2 sports simultaneously. It's one thing to be on the swim team and train for 5k running races or track meets. It is an entirely different thing to train for a marathon while balancing it with another competitive season.

To put it in perspective, I am a professional level cyclist and I did not attempt to train for a marathon during my bike racing season. I used a little bit of cycling for cross training while I was training for my marathon, but there was no way I could train for both and still be functional in either sport. I ran track in high school and then XC and track in college, and I did not feel that my body was ready to take on the demands of marathon training until I was over 30. When I finally did train for a marathon, I was fortunate to do it on relatively low mileage (30 per week, only hitting 50mpw the two weeks of my longest runs). I ran 3:07 and it was an easy effort for most of the race - but I was prepared with 9 years of cycling and another 8 years of running prior to that.

And despite my strong endurance background, it still took me quite a while to recover from that one race, and I had a lackluster cycling season following that.

You are not ready for a marathon - even if you were a cross country/track runner, I would still advise against it, and most HS runners average 20-30miles per week.

Perhaps if you were done growing and you were not in school, this might be something you could undertake. But at this point, from a health perspective, you are not ready.



2008-08-10 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Can I do this?

Cathyd, you're right in observing that she would have difficulty completing a marathon right now on her current mileage. I meant she would be able to do a marathon with relative ease after her proposed 7 month training program.

In response to your statement that eating right is all you need to prevent female athlete triad, I also believe you are right. I will offer, however, that this is much easier said than done. While it is possible to keep a young female athlete healthy, it takes, at the very least, a knowledgeable coach who really knows what they are doing.

For young female endurance athletes, the cards are stacked against us to stay healthy. The media says that skinny is beautiful. Coaches and casual observers say that skinny is fast (Paula Radcliffe, anyone?) Your peers give you funny looks when you go out for dinner and order a plate of pasta instead of the socially-approved salad with light dressing.

So, we can use Paula Radcliffe as an example maybe. She recently had a child (aka all female systems are go), and is now back to racing. Unfortunately, the casual high school athlete does not have access to the same coaching / dietary resources that elites do, and its hard to get it right.

Here are a couple of links I dug up about the female athlete triad. They are both from the American College of Sports Medicine.

 

female athlete health challenges prevalent but misunderstood

http://www.acsm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Search&template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=5355

Female athlete triad: education is key

http://www.acsm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Search&section=20024&template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentFileID=704

 



2008-08-11 2:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Can I do this?
amyro1234 - 2008-08-10 12:06 PM

Thanks for all the replies! I have thought a lot about what everyone has said so far. I do have a strong motivation to run a marathon. I just took some time to think about all my reasons, and listed over 20 reasons!

That is awesome. What a great way to find, grab, and hold on to a goal. The best part about writing out all of your reasons is that you will be able to refer to that list over and over. While you wait.

Wait it out. If you have 20 reasons for doing a marathon, then you are very motivated. That motivation will stick with you through the swim season, through the long dark winters, through school work, through summers, through graduation, and on to college. You'll have that goal knocking around in the back of your head, growing as you do, and waiting until the right time. Then, when your body is ready, you and your motivation will rock the house TOGETHER. If you start too soon, your motivation will rapidly outpace your body, and you set yourself up for failure.

The really cool thing about running is that you can do it for the rest of your life. Take advantage of stuff like team sports NOW, while you are in high school. I miss the days of team competitions in all the forms I did. Those opportunities just don't exist in the same way as an adult. Though I've never done master's swims, they may be close, but even still, you don't get that awesome team "gel" that you get in high school and college. Enjoy those benefits while you can, because marathons will always be there, but high school sports won't.

Now, if you find that your motivation to do a marathon is draining your motivation from the swim team, try listing out the reasons you do swim. Sit on that for a month, then come back to it. Let the excitement of thinking about marathons settle a little, then start to decide if perhaps you want to pursue the track/cc team instead. You still won't be marathoning, but you'll get a base to bounce from as an adult.

Finally, talk to your swim coach, but more importantly, listen to him/her. Don't go in with your ears shut to what he or she has to say. Hopefully you have a good coach that cares about you and has a good idea of what you can handle. Listen to them. Absorb all this advice, and again, sit on it for a month or two and see how you feel then. Marathons aren't going anywhere, you'll have the time to pursue them once you are ready.
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