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2007-09-06 10:07 AM

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Subject: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

sorry, I just don't get this one...on the one hand, what were the lifeguards watching; on the other, what in HELL was the father watching?

"CENTREVILLE, Va. -- Fairfax County police identified the 5-year-old girl who drowned at a gym pool on Friday as Jana Hammad of Clifton.

Jana drowned at "name of fitness center" on Trinity Parkway just after 7 p.m. Friday, police said. Lifeguards had cleared the pool for a scheduled break. That's when the child's father realized his daughter was missing. She was found at the bottom of about 4 feet of water in the kiddie pool.

Lifeguards immediately started CPR, but the girl was pronounced dead about an hour later at Inova Fair Oaks Hospital."



Edited by LHablas 2007-09-06 10:22 AM


2007-09-06 10:21 AM
in reply to: #953828

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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

Being a father myself, I cant understand why that would happen.  That should never happen. If you are taking a child to swim, wouldnt it make sense that you stay with that child? Kiddie pool or not, it doesn't take very much water to drown. Dad too busy oogling the lifeguards to notice his daughter missing? That breaks my heart. Now I wanna go and hug my kids.

 



Edited by ryanlc 2007-09-06 10:22 AM
2007-09-06 10:37 AM
in reply to: #953828

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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

Heartbreaking indeed.

This is getting so depressing: "dead neglected child" week in COJ. 

2007-09-06 10:50 AM
in reply to: #953828

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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
*Lifeguard mode*

I'd need to know more about the size/capacity of the pool, the layout, the position of the guard stands, and how many people were swimming and how many guards were there. BUT!

1) The guards failed to notify the father that he had to stay with the child. Depending on the pool, children under X age must be attended AT ALL TIMES by an adult/guardian. The two pools I work at define that as "Within 1 arms reach". Not on a beach towel, not doing laps, nothing. Arms reach. The lifeguards failed to enforce that supervision policy.

2) If a child is unable to swim, and is in a pool deeper than a wading/kiddie pool, they should either be a) in the parents arms and/or b) wearing a USCG approved life vest of appropriate size. Not arm floaties, not noodles, not a kickboard. Life vest. c) in an authorized, supervised swim class with an instructor and guard on duty. Again, there's a major failure to reinforce general water safety rules here.

3) First and foremost, parents are responsible for the overarching safety of their children by making sure children are aware of the rules and are following these rules. Ex: reading the safety rules to the child, and acting within those rules themselves. One of those rules is usually, "obey all lifeguard warnings and notifications". That means reinforcing the lifeguard's call ("Johnny, stop running!"..."he's not running! He's just a kid!" does not help). However, lifeguards are responsible for all accidents in the water because they are supposed to be creating a safe environment by reinforcing safety regulations.

Now, all of the above are "best practices". What happens in real life, in a high capacity pool, is very very different. Lifeguards are sometimes overworked, underpaid and generally underappreciated by the facilities. This doesn't excuse the staff by any means, trust me, they should be putting their best foot forward at all times, but when you've got a guard who has been the only guard on duty for 8 hours with no break (happens a LOT more than you think, especially at health clubs)...that sharpness and vigilance slips. If the facility is properly staffed and the guards properly rested, this should have been spotted.

There's so many questions, so many variables. It is so sad that this happened to such a young child. I'm interested to see what happens with this case.

(ETA: I just got a memo on this incident from work. We receive memos on all drownings so that we can learn from the mistakes of other facilities or notice "risk factors" in our own facilities).
2007-09-06 10:51 AM
in reply to: #953857

Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
ryanlc - 2007-09-06 11:21 AM

Being a father myself, I cant understand why that would happen.  That should never happen. If you are taking a child to swim, wouldnt it make sense that you stay with that child? Kiddie pool or not, it doesn't take very much water to drown. Dad too busy oogling the lifeguards to notice his daughter missing? That breaks my heart. Now I wanna go and hug my kids.

 



Yup, again, I don't have kids, but I have spent enough time practically raising other people's children to know that you just DON'T leave them alone in potentially dangerous situations! Yes, the lifeguards should have noticed, but often, pools are understaffed or the lifeguards can't see all areas of the pool. And lifeguards do not excuse parents from keeping an eye on their kids.

Edited by wurkit_gurl 2007-09-06 10:51 AM
2007-09-06 11:04 AM
in reply to: #953828

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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

*sigh* That is tragic, tragic news.

I can't be so quick to condemn the father, though. Things - standards - have really changed. When I was a kid, my sisters and I would head to the community swim pool - Olympic sized with a deep diving well. We had to wear badges sewn to our swimsuits - one color badge meant you were restricted from entering the diving well area. To get the other badge (meaning total access), you had to swim the length of the 50meter pool. We spent almost every summer day in that pool and we walked - unescorted by adults - to the pool from our house. That was on an AFB which was very secure but we repeated this pattern when we moved to Tampa and off base. I remember life guards at the AFB pool; I remember only 1 lifeguard at the 25yd pool in Tampa. And no parents on deck to keep watchful eyes on us. And nobody thought there was anything odd about that.

But... things change. When I was with my nephews last year, I would not go into the bathroom while the boys were in the pool. I made sure I was on the pool deck and watching them when they were in the water. Mostly because I couldn't live with myself if anything happened to them while they were in my care. But it sure is different than the way my mother raised her 5 girls and nobody ever called her negligent.



2007-09-06 11:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

Having our own scare at the pool a few weeks ago, it's crazy what can happen.  Our son 3yrs old went into the deep pool  for a few seconds before my wife realized he wasn't next to her (she is also watching our 2yr old).  When she noticed he was gone, she saw the boat he was playing with in the other pool and his little hands reaching out of the water.  She ran over and pulled him out just as the life guard saw what was happening. 

 

Poor Hunter was a little blue, but immediatly started coughing and breathing.  It happened so fast but the poor life guard (a 15 year old boy) freaked out and left her alone to go throw up in the life guard area.  

 

What blows my mind, is there were many people near hunter as he struggled under the water, including mothers and parents who didn't life a finger to help a flailing 3 yr old under the water.   

It just takes a split second.

What I don't understand about this case is, how did the Dad not figure out where his child was until after they cleared the whole pool. 

2007-09-06 11:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

This is my pool.  The girl drowned in the leisure pool (they also have a dedicated lap pool in the facility), which at its deepest is 4 feet.  I have mixed feelings on this situation.  It's tragic, there is no question about that.  I think the father is at fault more than anyone.  Based on what I have seen and experienced with the lifeguards here, I can't say that I am overly surprised.  I don't mean this to offend all lifeguards, or even all of the lifeguards at this particular LTF, but there are definitely not eyes on both pools at all times.  No way.  No chance. 

I was there last night for a workout, the lap pool is 25m, 4 lanes.  At any given point there were 8-12 people in this pool (they max the lanes at 3 people).  One lifeguard was on duty.  I had just finished my workout and was drying off at the side of the pool.  The lifeguard left, and was gone for probably two minutes, as she went to get a bin of towels to restack the shelf.  That means the pool was left unattended for that period of time (and let us not forget Deanna Babcock's thread over in TT).

The leisure pool isn't open all the time.  Usually when it is open, there will be two guards in the pool area.  But most times it seems that both guards gravitate to the same side of the leisure pool, leaving the lap pool unattended.  Things just don't add up with the way that they monitor the pools (not having ever been a lifeguard, it doesn't make sense to me from a swimmer's point of view).  When I used to swim at the YMCA, I hated the guards there because they never used their whistles and kids ran free, but at least there were always several sets of eyes on the pool.

2007-09-06 12:45 PM
in reply to: #954018

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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

3558 - 2007-09-06 12:51 PM

... 

I don't mean this to offend all lifeguards, or even all of the lifeguards at this particular LTF, but there are definitely not eyes on both pools at all times. No way. No chance.

This is my gym as well, and I second that - I have never really felt there were enough lifeguards working and paying attention, especially when the leisure pool is open.  The leisure pool can be a complete madhouse when it's open and they definitely need more folks watching it. 

2007-09-06 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
The lifeguard left, and was gone for probably two minutes, as she went to get a bin of towels to restack the shelf. That means the pool was left unattended for that period of time (and let us not forget Deanna Babcock's thread over in TT).


First mistake. Guards should never be required to do anything but guard. They should never have to fold towels, get towels, or do anything other than patrol the pool.

However, I will say that the big issue at my facility is that I'm the only guard on duty. I'm not even allowed to go to the bathroom (which, on a 6 hour shift, is a challenge). I cannot go to the laundry to get new towels. Then I get people who yell at me (and get me written up) because I won't "get off my a$$ and do the towels" (that's a true story there folks). Guards, especially ones working alone, often get put into situations like this, where they have to try to balance customer service and pool safety. Its a crappy situation all around.

As to why the guard would guard the leisure pool more than the lap pool....

Again, not defending it because they should be doing sweeps on both pools. However, it is hard to do a full through sweep on one pool while alone, let alone a leisure pool, especially if it has play structures (mushrooms, slides, etc). Leisure pools are full of hazards because they attract mainly kids who can get tangled, trapped, slip, fall, dive, swallow water/toys, get in just slightly too deep etc. The (misguided*) thinking of some guards is that "lap swimmers know how to swim, therefore let me devote my attention to the non-swimmers in the leisure pool". This isn't a great idea because you've got adults in the lap lanes who are more likely to have a stroke/heart attack, or the opportunity for loose children to jump in. It's a no win situation. Ideally, they should have had two guards on. It surprises me that they didn't, because you said they usually do. If it came down to a "call off", they should have closed the leisure pool or the lap pool. At the one facility I worked at, we had to turn away swimmers if we were over our 1:25 guard to swimmer ratio. People were PISSED about it all the time, but it was what we were told to do.

*(I say misguided because one of the most prevalent profiles of a "high risk swimmer" is in fact a man, late 20's to early 40's, and foreign. I went after a guy with this exact profile a year ago. They assume they're adults and therefore can swim and/or dive in any pool with little risk of drowning).
2007-09-06 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...

phoenixazul - 2007-09-06 1:48 PM Ideally, they should have had two guards on. It surprises me that they didn't, because you said they usually do. If it came down to a "call off", they should have closed the leisure pool or the lap pool.

 

I wasn't there last Friday, so I don't know how many guards were on when it happened.  Last night, when I referenced the one guard being on duty, only the Lap Pool was open.  (The leisure pool is actually closed for cleaning until this weekend).

 

The leisure pool, like you mentioned, has all the structures that kids love.  The two slides dump into the 4 foot end, but most of the other stuff is in water that's no deper than one or two feet (I think the article mentioned she was in 4 feet of water).  Sad story.  Hopefully it prompts them to rethink how their guards work, but based on what I saw yesterday, it doesn't seem like it so far.



2007-09-06 3:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
BodyCheck - 2007-09-06 12:45 PM

3558 - 2007-09-06 12:51 PM

... 

I don't mean this to offend all lifeguards, or even all of the lifeguards at this particular LTF, but there are definitely not eyes on both pools at all times. No way. No chance.

This is my gym as well, and I second that - I have never really felt there were enough lifeguards working and paying attention, especially when the leisure pool is open.  The leisure pool can be a complete madhouse when it's open and they definitely need more folks watching it. 

I am going to jump in here....I managed LTF's in Illinois.  Operations.  1) The lap pool is never "Guarded"  as it is a lap pool and no children should be in that pool. Period. (This is supposed to be monitored by management of the club.)

Leisure Pool- This is supposed to be guarded by a minimum of 3 to 4 guards if done properly.  This is of course depended on the number of people swimming.  The minimum for indoor pool is three.  Outdoor pool is 5.  If this is not done than you should complain to the management and have it corrected.

I was very conscience of the amount of guards at all times at my LTF and went over labor budgets to ensure that it was staffed properly. 

I have guarded for Ten Years prior to manageing the facility and have had no drownings.  To fault only the father is wrong, Though he is ultimately responsible.  There is no way a child should go unnoticed in a properly guarded pool.

As I guarded pools parent s were always the key to my guarding the pool.  It is difficult to watch all children in a pool.  When a parent moved fast it let me know there was trouble in that area of the pool.  I worked and met with many parents to help me keep a safe pool.



Edited by bryans0626 2007-09-06 3:29 PM
2007-09-06 5:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
Very tragic. Every pool we've ever gone to requires a parent to be with children under 7. My kids are 7 and almost-10 and I still don't let them swim unsupervised...even with a lifeguard on duty. (They're not great swimmers yet.) The teenage lifeguards at our pool are notoriously inattentive. We have a few really good ones, and the "sleepers" are being fired. The pool now requires one guard to sit in the tower, and one on his/her feet near the pool with flotation device in hand.

Edited by NightOwl 2007-09-06 5:56 PM
2007-09-06 8:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
I am a member of LTF club in Illinios and let me tell you. I wish they did not have the outdoor pool and they would have an indoor track. seriously get ride of the outdoor pool and get an indoor track. ok that being said I think they do a good job. They have guards folding towels and cleaning windows and such but you tend to see like 4 - 5 guards out there for the pool sometimes during busy summer and like 3 during weekdays.

yes they do not guard the lap pool and sometimes we almost die but hey it makes it more like OWS swimming right?

2007-09-06 10:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
my fitness center doesn't have any lifeguards.....  
2007-09-07 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Child drowns at fitness center pool...unbelievable...
Parents need to be responsible for their kids. Don't count on anyone making minimum wage to watch your loved ones. This is a cool link that shows what kids can do when trained properly.

http://www.childdrowningprevention.com/index.html


2007-09-07 11:43 AM
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