Increasing swimming volume
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Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
2017-03-10 2:03 PM |
New user 175 | Subject: Increasing swimming volume I've been swimming on and off for 4 years (adult on set). 'In season, ' I swim 5-6k yards per week. Average pace is around 2:00 minutes per 100 yards. I want to increase my yardage to 8-10k yards per week, but wondering how much intensity to do while allowing my body to the adjust to the increase? I am currently swimming3x per week at ababout 2k per session. Warm up, then sets of 50s, 100s usually. |
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2017-03-10 9:50 PM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by goforit I've been swimming on and off for 4 years (adult on set). 'In season, ' I swim 5-6k yards per week. Average pace is around 2:00 minutes per 100 yards. I want to increase my yardage to 8-10k yards per week, but wondering how much intensity to do while allowing my body to the adjust to the increase? I am currently swimming3x per week at ababout 2k per session. Warm up, then sets of 50s, 100s usually. What race distance are you training for? That makes a huge difference. Not necessarily in repetition length but in volume. At 2:00/100y you have some technique issues that are holding you back. A couple of lessons with a qualified coach/instructor will help you reduce drag and swim more efficiently which will eventually translate into speed. As to what intensity to train at. Swimming isn't like running. You can swim VERY hard and not risk injury. The idea is to swim repetitions with sufficient rest so you can maintain proper technique. But here's the rub. You need to develop proper technique and swim fitness simultaneously. They go hand in hand. You can't have proper technique without good swim fitness and you can't have proper swim fitness without good technique. Technique and fitness are two sides of the same coin. My suggestion is to first get your technique sorted out. Then determine what your threshold pace is. Once you know your threshold pace, start doing 50's at threshold + 3 seconds per 100. For example, if your threshold is 1:30/100, your target pace would be 1:33/100 or 0:47/50. Add 15 seconds to your target pace and round to the closest 0:05. So, for the example I just gave, your target pace is 0:47/50 + 0:15 = 1:02. Round to the closest 0:05 your sendoff interval will be 1:00. Then I would begin doing a LOT of reps. Maybe start with 25 x 50. The reps will get increasingly difficult as you get deeper into the set. If you miss a send-off, take the repetition as rest and then continue on as if you had done the rep. If you miss a second rep, get out of the water, go home, and try again next time. In fairly short order you will be ready to increase either the number of reps or go to 100's. As a general guide, you should be swimming 1.5-3.0 times your race distance swim at least 3-4 times per week for a MOP finish. The shorter the race distance the more relative training you should be doing - for a sprint you'd want to be closer to 3-times the race distance per workout 3-4 times/week, for an Ironman you'd be closer to 1.5 times the race distance per workout 3-4 times/week. Hope that helps. Edited by k9car363 2017-03-10 10:09 PM |
2017-03-11 10:29 AM in reply to: #5215579 |
New user 175 | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Thanks K9. Currently, aiming for HIM to IM distance, but not signed up for anything yet. I don't have instructors near by, nor Master's in my area. Reallyworworking on sinking legs and a better catch. Shoulder mobility is horrible, but I'm trying. As i increase yardage from,say, 2k to 2.5k, that last 500 feels awful no matter how i break it up and even with excessive rest. The good news is that i don't miss, nor cut short any work outs as I'm motivated. |
2017-03-12 3:27 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Expert 1074 Tyrone, Georgia | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Just curious k9car on your statement of "At 2:00/100y you have some technique issues that are holding you back". At what min/100y time would you think someone has overcome "most" of their technique issues and now are strength/fitness limited? I realize this may not be a one size fits all but respect your opinions and advice on swimming, along with other things I guess what I am asking is what would you expect to see from an adult on set swimmer with really good technique be able to lay down for a consistent set of say ten 100's that maybe is lacking swim strength/fitness? 1:35's, 1:40's? Kind regards, Rich |
2017-03-12 4:37 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by goforit I've been swimming on and off for 4 years (adult on set). 'In season, ' I swim 5-6k yards per week. Average pace is around 2:00 minutes per 100 yards. I want to increase my yardage to 8-10k yards per week, but wondering how much intensity to do while allowing my body to the adjust to the increase? I am currently swimming3x per week at ababout 2k per session. Warm up, then sets of 50s, 100s usually. What race distance are you training for? That makes a huge difference. Not necessarily in repetition length but in volume. At 2:00/100y you have some technique issues that are holding you back. A couple of lessons with a qualified coach/instructor will help you reduce drag and swim more efficiently which will eventually translate into speed. As to what intensity to train at. Swimming isn't like running. You can swim VERY hard and not risk injury. The idea is to swim repetitions with sufficient rest so you can maintain proper technique. But here's the rub. You need to develop proper technique and swim fitness simultaneously. They go hand in hand. You can't have proper technique without good swim fitness and you can't have proper swim fitness without good technique. Technique and fitness are two sides of the same coin. My suggestion is to first get your technique sorted out. Then determine what your threshold pace is. Once you know your threshold pace, start doing 50's at threshold + 3 seconds per 100. For example, if your threshold is 1:30/100, your target pace would be 1:33/100 or 0:47/50. Add 15 seconds to your target pace and round to the closest 0:05. So, for the example I just gave, your target pace is 0:47/50 + 0:15 = 1:02. Round to the closest 0:05 your sendoff interval will be 1:00. Then I would begin doing a LOT of reps. Maybe start with 25 x 50. The reps will get increasingly difficult as you get deeper into the set. If you miss a send-off, take the repetition as rest and then continue on as if you had done the rep. If you miss a second rep, get out of the water, go home, and try again next time. In fairly short order you will be ready to increase either the number of reps or go to 100's. As a general guide, you should be swimming 1.5-3.0 times your race distance swim at least 3-4 times per week for a MOP finish. The shorter the race distance the more relative training you should be doing - for a sprint you'd want to be closer to 3-times the race distance per workout 3-4 times/week, for an Ironman you'd be closer to 1.5 times the race distance per workout 3-4 times/week. Hope that helps. 6K yds/workout at 2:00/100 is north of 2 hours/session...........3-4X wk? That's (if you avg. 3.5x/wk).....SEVEN HOURS OF SWIMMING PER WEEK! Who does that? |
2017-03-12 6:32 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by goforit I've been swimming on and off for 4 years (adult on set). 'In season, ' I swim 5-6k yards per week. Average pace is around 2:00 minutes per 100 yards. I want to increase my yardage to 8-10k yards per week, but wondering how much intensity to do while allowing my body to the adjust to the increase? I am currently swimming3x per week at ababout 2k per session. Warm up, then sets of 50s, 100s usually. What race distance are you training for? That makes a huge difference. Not necessarily in repetition length but in volume. At 2:00/100y you have some technique issues that are holding you back. A couple of lessons with a qualified coach/instructor will help you reduce drag and swim more efficiently which will eventually translate into speed. As to what intensity to train at. Swimming isn't like running. You can swim VERY hard and not risk injury. The idea is to swim repetitions with sufficient rest so you can maintain proper technique. But here's the rub. You need to develop proper technique and swim fitness simultaneously. They go hand in hand. You can't have proper technique without good swim fitness and you can't have proper swim fitness without good technique. Technique and fitness are two sides of the same coin. My suggestion is to first get your technique sorted out. Then determine what your threshold pace is. Once you know your threshold pace, start doing 50's at threshold + 3 seconds per 100. For example, if your threshold is 1:30/100, your target pace would be 1:33/100 or 0:47/50. Add 15 seconds to your target pace and round to the closest 0:05. So, for the example I just gave, your target pace is 0:47/50 + 0:15 = 1:02. Round to the closest 0:05 your sendoff interval will be 1:00. Then I would begin doing a LOT of reps. Maybe start with 25 x 50. The reps will get increasingly difficult as you get deeper into the set. If you miss a send-off, take the repetition as rest and then continue on as if you had done the rep. If you miss a second rep, get out of the water, go home, and try again next time. In fairly short order you will be ready to increase either the number of reps or go to 100's. As a general guide, you should be swimming 1.5-3.0 times your race distance swim at least 3-4 times per week for a MOP finish. The shorter the race distance the more relative training you should be doing - for a sprint you'd want to be closer to 3-times the race distance per workout 3-4 times/week, for an Ironman you'd be closer to 1.5 times the race distance per workout 3-4 times/week. Hope that helps. 6K yds/workout at 2:00/100 is north of 2 hours/session...........3-4X wk? That's (if you avg. 3.5x/wk).....SEVEN HOURS OF SWIMMING PER WEEK! Who does that? Another interesting question is what % of weekly training time should one allocate to the swim. |
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2017-03-12 8:51 PM in reply to: dandr614 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by dandr614 Just curious k9car on your statement of "At 2:00/100y you have some technique issues that are holding you back". At what min/100y time would you think someone has overcome "most" of their technique issues and now are strength/fitness limited? I realize this may not be a one size fits all but respect your opinions and advice on swimming, along with other things I guess what I am asking is what would you expect to see from an adult on set swimmer with really good technique be able to lay down for a consistent set of say ten 100's that maybe is lacking swim strength/fitness? 1:35's, 1:40's? Kind regards, Rich You're right, this isn't really a one-size fits all type of thing. GENERALLY speaking, in my experience when a swimmer gets their threshold pace below ~ 1:30/100y they have reasonably good technique. That ISN'T to say that above a threshold pace of 1:30/100y they have crappy technique, nor is it to say that below a threshold pace of 1:30/100y they have great technique. I'm merely saying a swimmer needs reasonably good technique to get around a threshold pace of 1:30/100y. The key here is threshold pace. I've seen people with TERRIBLE technique that were able to muscle their way to a 1:05 100-yard TT. However they couldn't maintain that pace because their technique was so poor they were beating the water into anaerobic submission and they simply blew up. As I said earlier, to truly have good technique, you need good swim fitness - and to have good swim fitness, you need to have good technique. They go hand in hand and must be developed simultaneously - an adult onset swimmer (actually any potential swimmer for that matter) decides to swim with a purpose. They begin to learn proper technique and with that rudimentary proper technique they begin to swim some volume. With the increasing volume they begin to develop swim fitness built upon proper technique. As they develop swim fitness, their technique continues to improve, as their technique improves, their fitness improves - technique and fitness are two sides of the same coin. For an adult-onset swimmer, the very best thing they can do is get with a qualified coach/instructor early in their swim career - learn the fundamentals and NOT learn the bad habits so common among a large number of adult onset swimmers. Just my humble two-cents. |
2017-03-12 9:24 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by nc452010 6K yds/workout at 2:00/100 is north of 2 hours/session...........3-4X wk? That's (if you avg. 3.5x/wk).....SEVEN HOURS OF SWIMMING PER WEEK! Who does that? The idea is that a swimmer isn't swimming at 2:00/100! If someone were to do a VERY intense swim block in the off-season when they can devote the bulk of their training time to swimming, they can develop proper technique and get their threshold down to a reasonable pace. 6,000 yards at a 1:30/100y threshold with a 1:45 send-off interval is an hour-and-forty-five minutes in the water. Three times a week is 5:15 in the water per week. The athlete wouldn't be doing that volume the entire season. They would build to that volume over the course of the season just as they would build cycling and/or running volume. Who does that? The people that want to come out of the water aerobically after an Ironman swim tickling the one-hour mark. Does that mean everyone has to put in that kind of swimming volume? Nope! That's the beauty of what we are doing. We all have a choice on how to approach out training. |
2017-03-12 10:44 PM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by nc452010 6K yds/workout at 2:00/100 is north of 2 hours/session...........3-4X wk? That's (if you avg. 3.5x/wk).....SEVEN HOURS OF SWIMMING PER WEEK! Who does that? Another interesting question is what % of weekly training time should one allocate to the swim. Hey Marc, I think the percentage of weekly training volume that should be devoted to the swim is going to be a function of the race distance and goal. If the goal is to qualify for Kona, all anyone has to do is look at results. It will take close to an hour IM swim to get into a KQ conversation (I looked at M30-34 results from Florida, Louisville, and Arizona). 1:30/100y will yield a 1:03 IM swim which gets the athlete out of the water at or very near the front. Swimming 4,200 yards at 1:30/100y isn't going to happen swimming 5,000 yards/week in training. On the other hand, if the goal is to finish an Ironman before the cutoffs, there is quite a lot more leeway. A 2:20 IM swim requires 3:20/100y. I'm working with an athlete now whose sum total of swim volume last year was less than 14,000 yards and he finished an IM swim below the cutoff. Of course he then struggled on the bike and his run was a death march. Is that because he was deeply anaerobic during the swim and never recovered? I know the argument - "An Ironman swim is only 11% of an Ironman so I'm only going to devote 11% of my training volume to the swim" (Assuming a 9-hour finish [1:00S, 4:45B, 3:15R]). The problem I have with that argument is that it completely discounts the importance of the swim. The swim impacts the swim, the bike, and the run. The bike impacts the bike and the run. The run impacts only the run. It is true you can't "win" a triathlon in the water - but you can lose it there. If an athlete goes deeply anaerobic in the water - as they likely will with insufficient swim volume - they will come out of the water with a HR in Z5. The only way their HR is going to recover is to sit. But they aren't going to do that - they're going to get on a bike and ride - with a HR that might have recovered to high Z4. During their long training rides, they were typically riding high Z2? Now their riding high Z4 under race conditions where conditions are conspiring against them; leading them to ride faster than they should so their HR never recovers. If they get to the run, they've likely used up a good portion of their glycogen stores and the run quickly spirals down into a death march or DNF. And it all started because they didn't want to put in sufficient swim training volume. What % of total training volume should be devoted to the swim? My opinion is that an athlete should do sufficient swim training so that they can complete the goal race swim (both distance and pace) while remaining aerobic. Edited by k9car363 2017-03-12 10:50 PM |
2017-03-12 10:45 PM in reply to: #5215627 |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Scott, how do you determine threshold pace? Are you using the CSS calculator (200 + 400 tt) to approximate or do you have another method? |
2017-03-12 11:04 PM in reply to: JoelO |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by JoelO Scott, how do you determine threshold pace? Are you using the CSS calculator (200 + 400 tt) to approximate or do you have another method? Hey Joel, Yes, I use the CSS method. I call it Swim Threshold Pace (STP) as, in my mind, STP more clearly defines what it is but that's semantics. In my experience, the CSS/STP results become less accurate for "more pace challenged" swimmers - those who are swimming below ~ 2:00/100y. For those swimmers, a 500 or 1,000 TT may yield a more accurate result. (500 for NEW swimmers, 1,000 for swimmers who have some fitness but are still struggling with pace). Here's how to perform a STP test and calculate the result - http://triathlonswimcoach.com/index.php/en/resources/2014-11-30-20-43-15/ct-menu-item-3/75-how-to-determine-swim-threshold-pace |
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2017-03-13 5:25 AM in reply to: k9car363 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by nc452010 6K yds/workout at 2:00/100 is north of 2 hours/session...........3-4X wk? That's (if you avg. 3.5x/wk).....SEVEN HOURS OF SWIMMING PER WEEK! Who does that? The idea is that a swimmer isn't swimming at 2:00/100! If someone were to do a VERY intense swim block in the off-season when they can devote the bulk of their training time to swimming, they can develop proper technique and get their threshold down to a reasonable pace. 6,000 yards at a 1:30/100y threshold with a 1:45 send-off interval is an hour-and-forty-five minutes in the water. Three times a week is 5:15 in the water per week. The athlete wouldn't be doing that volume the entire season. They would build to that volume over the course of the season just as they would build cycling and/or running volume. Who does that? The people that want to come out of the water aerobically after an Ironman swim tickling the one-hour mark. Does that mean everyone has to put in that kind of swimming volume? Nope! That's the beauty of what we are doing. We all have a choice on how to approach out training. The main reason I responded to your post was......you were referencing the numbers I cited as MOP workout suggestions. I swim with folks (adult onset swimmers) who do IM swims at 1:20......on 3X 1 hour/wk. We rarely hit 3k/session. All (the ones I'm citing) are MOP finishers. Not arguing with you that your suggestion would be "ideal". But, if I was swimming 3-4x/wk @ 6k/session.....I'd hope I was a LOT better than MOP. |
2017-03-13 11:14 AM in reply to: dandr614 |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by dandr614 At what min/100y time would you think someone has overcome "most" of their technique issues and now are strength/fitness limited? I don't know that this level exists. I started working with Scott (k9car) quite a while ago (something I would HIGHLY recommend) and went in an already pretty fast swimmer (able to hold 1:15/100yd repeats), but had a ton of technique work to do. Even after quite a bit of work and getting quite a bit faster (I can hold repeats at <1:10/100yd) I still have a lot to work on. Swimming is so technical that there is always something to fix. Here's the other thing; every time you make and adjustment to your stroke, you have to rebuild fitness to an extent because you are engaging different muscles. You'll slow down at first, before seeing gains. Another reason why it is important to work with someone experienced and knowledgeable who can help you make the adjustments to your stroke around your race/season schedule so you aren't making changes that will slow you down at the wrong time and still maximize your gains (see above recommendation) Swimming is not like biking, where there are gains to be made through equipment, clothes, position, etc, but they are a relatively small fraction compared to simply having the power. With the right resources, you could theoretically set up a complete newbie to be just about as good as they'd ever need to be on the bike, then the rest would simply be fitness. That's just not the case with swimming. The technical portion is way too high a percentage. You will always be working on both. |
2017-03-13 2:17 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 1074 Tyrone, Georgia | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by dandr614 At what min/100y time would you think someone has overcome "most" of their technique issues and now are strength/fitness limited? I don't know that this level exists. I started working with Scott (k9car) quite a while ago (something I would HIGHLY recommend) and went in an already pretty fast swimmer (able to hold 1:15/100yd repeats), but had a ton of technique work to do. Even after quite a bit of work and getting quite a bit faster (I can hold repeats at <1:10/100yd) I still have a lot to work on. Swimming is so technical that there is always something to fix. Here's the other thing; every time you make and adjustment to your stroke, you have to rebuild fitness to an extent because you are engaging different muscles. You'll slow down at first, before seeing gains. Another reason why it is important to work with someone experienced and knowledgeable who can help you make the adjustments to your stroke around your race/season schedule so you aren't making changes that will slow you down at the wrong time and still maximize your gains (see above recommendation) Swimming is not like biking, where there are gains to be made through equipment, clothes, position, etc, but they are a relatively small fraction compared to simply having the power. With the right resources, you could theoretically set up a complete newbie to be just about as good as they'd ever need to be on the bike, then the rest would simply be fitness. That's just not the case with swimming. The technical portion is way too high a percentage. You will always be working on both. Really the reason of my question but appreciate the insight. I have always felt as swimming as a necessary evil of triathlon but really trying to become more of a student of it as honestly I see swimming as something I am hopeful I will be able to continue doing long after I can enjoy running. Just taking the mentality of a continuous improvement process but trying to utilize the pareto principle to some degree initially. Thanks again for your feedback. |
2017-03-13 2:30 PM in reply to: dandr614 |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by dandr614 Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by dandr614 At what min/100y time would you think someone has overcome "most" of their technique issues and now are strength/fitness limited? I don't know that this level exists. I started working with Scott (k9car) quite a while ago (something I would HIGHLY recommend) and went in an already pretty fast swimmer (able to hold 1:15/100yd repeats), but had a ton of technique work to do. Even after quite a bit of work and getting quite a bit faster (I can hold repeats at <1:10/100yd) I still have a lot to work on. Swimming is so technical that there is always something to fix. Here's the other thing; every time you make and adjustment to your stroke, you have to rebuild fitness to an extent because you are engaging different muscles. You'll slow down at first, before seeing gains. Another reason why it is important to work with someone experienced and knowledgeable who can help you make the adjustments to your stroke around your race/season schedule so you aren't making changes that will slow you down at the wrong time and still maximize your gains (see above recommendation) Swimming is not like biking, where there are gains to be made through equipment, clothes, position, etc, but they are a relatively small fraction compared to simply having the power. With the right resources, you could theoretically set up a complete newbie to be just about as good as they'd ever need to be on the bike, then the rest would simply be fitness. That's just not the case with swimming. The technical portion is way too high a percentage. You will always be working on both. Really the reason of my question but appreciate the insight. I have always felt as swimming as a necessary evil of triathlon but really trying to become more of a student of it as honestly I see swimming as something I am hopeful I will be able to continue doing long after I can enjoy running. Just taking the mentality of a continuous improvement process but trying to utilize the pareto principle to some degree initially. Thanks again for your feedback. In my opinion and experience, swimming is 50/50, not 80/20. Whether you just want to survive the swim, maintain fitness, get better or get to the FOP, you can't do one without the other (form vs fitness). Now, the pareto principle could be said to apply to either form or fitness. i.e. you get 80% of your fitness gains with the first 20% of work, or 80% of your form gains through the first 20% of teaching, then maybe. But to say that you just want to get form "good enough" then concentrate on fitness is like saying that I want my left leg to get good enough at running then I will concentrate on really working on my right leg. It doesn't work that way, you need both. |
2017-03-13 9:33 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by nc452010 The main reason I responded to your post was......you were referencing the numbers I cited as MOP workout suggestions. I swim with folks (adult onset swimmers) who do IM swims at 1:20......on 3X 1 hour/wk. We rarely hit 3k/session. All (the ones I'm citing) are MOP finishers. Not arguing with you that your suggestion would be "ideal". But, if I was swimming 3-4x/wk @ 6k/session.....I'd hope I was a LOT better than MOP. Hey Jeff, I didn't take it as you were arguing. How we define MOP depends upon who shows up on race day. At any rate, that's great that you know a couple people that can complete an IM swim in 1:20 on 3x 1hr workouts per week. If they're happy with that result, then more power to them. As to "But, if I was swimming 3-4x/wk @ 6k/session.....I'd hope I was a LOT better than MOP" - back when I was swimming, I was putting in 13-15,000 meters per day, 7-days a week. It takes HUGE swim volume to get fast. Every time I see a triathlete "bragging" about their 10,000 yard swim week I find myself smiling - then I remind myself that this is triathlon where you don't have to put in "swimmer's" volume. Nonetheless, if an athlete wants to get fast, want's to be front MOP or better, it isn't gonna happen on a couple 3,000 workouts per week.
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2017-03-13 10:05 PM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by 3mar Swimming is so technical that there is always something to fix. I'll second this notion! I started swimming in 1969 and swam competitively for nearly 14-years. Since I retired my Speedo I have been coaching and competing in triathlons. That's over 45 years of swimming experience. I still to this day get with my swim coach a couple times a year and do a technique block every off-season. It's a never ending "battle" to keep good stroke mechanics. Edited by k9car363 2017-03-13 10:07 PM |
2017-03-14 10:14 AM in reply to: k9car363 |
812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Increasing swimming volume Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by nc452010 The main reason I responded to your post was......you were referencing the numbers I cited as MOP workout suggestions. I swim with folks (adult onset swimmers) who do IM swims at 1:20......on 3X 1 hour/wk. We rarely hit 3k/session. All (the ones I'm citing) are MOP finishers. Not arguing with you that your suggestion would be "ideal". But, if I was swimming 3-4x/wk @ 6k/session.....I'd hope I was a LOT better than MOP. Hey Jeff, I didn't take it as you were arguing. How we define MOP depends upon who shows up on race day. At any rate, that's great that you know a couple people that can complete an IM swim in 1:20 on 3x 1hr workouts per week. If they're happy with that result, then more power to them. As to "But, if I was swimming 3-4x/wk @ 6k/session.....I'd hope I was a LOT better than MOP" - back when I was swimming, I was putting in 13-15,000 meters per day, 7-days a week. It takes HUGE swim volume to get fast. Every time I see a triathlete "bragging" about their 10,000 yard swim week I find myself smiling - then I remind myself that this is triathlon where you don't have to put in "swimmer's" volume. Nonetheless, if an athlete wants to get fast, want's to be front MOP or better, it isn't gonna happen on a couple 3,000 workouts per week.
I think you give triathletes too much credit. We are terrible swimmers! IMO it doesn't take a whole lot (just decent technique) to be front MOP / back FOP in the swim. But to go from there to truly front of pack will definitely take a lot of volume. Take me for instance. Swam as a kid for my neighborhood swim team in the summers (2-3 months per year), but not for high school or college. So never had any real volume, but have decent technique to rely on. I averaged just over 9kyds/wk in the 18 weeks leading up to IMTX last year. Swam a 1:03:52 (~1:30/100yd). To a real swimmer this would be insanely slow. But it was good enough to be top 6% overall and top 5% in m35-39. Once again, triathletes are terrible swimmers! And this swim time is good enough to be in the conversation for Kona, so unless I become a much better cyclist or runner I'm not likely to swim more than this any time soon. In fact I've been swimming much less since then and may have even gotten a little faster just from consistency over time. I guess my point in this (which should be good for your business!) is that far too many triathletes go to the pool and slog out yards that aren't really helping them that much other than to survive the swim. They need to work with a coach consistently for a few months and would get much more out of their time. |