Swimming Number of strokes per 25 yards

Assuming we're referring to a stroke count as counting 1 for every time your left arm pulls back and 1 for every time your right arm pulls back, I'm at 14-15 right now depending on how good a push off I get from the wall.

I do about 13-14 SPL at a 35 sec/ 50 yd pace. It will go up slightly as the speed goes up. A full sprint will probably be around 15.

Catch up drills where you concetrate on gliding is a great body position drill to increase your efficiency. Body position and "catch" are the keys to efficiency.

Brittain

Get a great push off the wall and do a lot of kicking, you can probably get that down to 2 or 3.

;-)

I consider myself a pretty good swimmer, but my hands enter the water about 16 times per 25 yds. I am also a poor kicker. I regularly repeat at :30 or better per 25 - Generally I do interval training in the pool, 100's, 50's or 25's at some interval.

Another drill idea is the "roll drill". After your left hand enters the water, roll all the way to the left side, left arm fully extended in front, right arm fully extended down, take 4-6 kicks, then stroke again, this time fully extending the right atrm in front and the left down - take 4 or 6 kicks, repeat...

Another drill is to concentrate on your finish - drag your thumb on your thigh as you go to finish at the bottom - try to extend more and more towards your knee.

Triceps extensions are a great exercise for lengthening your finish.

I agree. I'm relatively short and stocky, so I try to concentrate on stretching and making my body as long as possible. When I swim my sets I try to concentrate on one thing at a time, be it head position, rotation, etc. Kind of like a golf swing in that respect. There are probably a hundred different things you need to think about, but in reality it is hard to truly concentrate on more than one or two things at a time. My stroke count is currently about 19-20, but I've managed to get down to 17 a couple of times.

i started trying to reduce my strokes about four months ago(about 20-21 spl) . it was diffacult at first but with alot of practice i have got it down to 14-15 spl.i followed what i have been reading about less spl saving more energy for other events. well when i started it i didn't feel as if i wasgoing to be able catch my breath let alone get any faster. practice seems to have helped with the new technique

In my first tri in October my average SPL's were 30-34 for 25 meters. Now, after reading TI over the Christmas holidays and applying its principles, I'm down to 19-21. And to be honest, I have not even started the TI drills. All I've been doing is focusing on being balanced in my swim (especially when breathing), having a longer stroke and concentrating on generating power from shoulder rotation.

Félix

I read TI and have not done any of the drills yet.  I counted my strokes and it is pretty consistent and at 16.  

I was struggling at 24-25 spl then read the TI and after 3 weeks was able to get down to 15-16- totally blew my mind, so much easier nd less effort - literally within one workout I dropped 2-3 spl and have been more consistant every since improving every workout- I can be faster I know but I am so stoked about reducing the effort I am now a BELIEVER

I can sustain about 17 SPL, and achieve 14 for short distances when I make the effort.  If I'm sloppy it goes up to around 19 or 20.  I make only a soft push off the wall.  I don't see the training advantage to pushing off hard as there is no way to artificially accelerate in the open water.

Wow man, that's huge, day after day that you guys talk about that TI stuff, I'm starting to convince myself that I should take a look at it.

Right now I'm at 24 per 25m, I think that's because my coach doesn't focus that much on "less strokes" and he focus more on less kicking, sometimes no kicking at all, or only a small scissor kick just to keep the body balanced.

I haven't read fully the book, just a couple of pages at borders, but this concept of "fewer strokes", I don't know... I compare it to running, that means that I will run more effiently and faster if I do loooonger strides, or in the bike, loooower cadence will be better for me?  That's weird.

Just my .02 psi.

I just completed the TI class (in Dallas), last week.

They filmed us the very first day (we all looked bad under the water) and I had a 25m stroke count of 19.

The last day, they filmed us again (and we all looked much better under the water) and I had a 25m stroke count of 13.

Class was geat and well worth the time and $$

Swimming is considerably different than cycling or running from an efficiency standpoint. The big issue for efficient swimming is how far forward you move on each stroke. In general with running or cycling your feet don't slip and your tires don't slip so you can adjust your stride or cadence to match the most efficient way your muscles work. This means that for every stride you take or pedal stroke you move a certain distance forward. So the trick to efficiency is not to waste energy to move that distance forward.

With swimming however, your hand can slip through the water and you don't move forward. Think of trying to reach out and grab something solid to pull yourself over. If you don't get a solid grip, you can't pull yourself forward. There are a lot of drills that are used to develop a good "catch" to help with this and SPL is a good measure of how effective you are at not slipping.

The second piece of efficient swimming is minimizing drag. Water is very dense compared to air so streamlining is much more important than even biking. Aerobars exist on bikes to get you into a position that minimizes the amount of air the you have to move out of the way to move forward on the bike. The same thing is true for body position in swimming. All the drills that work on gliding, streamlining, making sure your hand is in front of you, breathing so your hips don't drop, head position etc. are all focused on getting to body position with the least drag. The more drag you have, the more force you have to apply to the water to move forward. To move forward you have to move water in the opposite direction. The more force you need to apply, the more water you need to move. If you have a high drag body position you need to apply more force to the water to overcome the drag. You can only move a certain amount of water per stroke, so to apply the extra force you will need more strokes to do it. Once again SPL is a good measure of how much drag you have. Less drag is more efficient which means fewer strokes.

And keep in mind that in swimming you can have different turnover rates as well. It is typical to have a higher turnover if you are sprinting to get a higher speed. You will slip more and have a higher SPL, but attain a higher speed at the cost of having to apply a lot more energy.

Sorry for being so long winded, but in general SPL is a very good measure of swimming efficiency which is why things like TI stress it.

Just a few thoughts.

Brittain

14 per 25 and 30 per 50. I would like to get it to 12, and I think it is possible(plus it is an extra goal to shoot for in the pool) TI works big time!

I'm new here, so forgive my ignorance. Whats "T1". Is it a book?
I thought you weren't suppose to kick.
Also, my coach said 70% of your power or speed or something comes at the finish of your stroke.

"TI" = Total Immersion. http://www.totalimmersion.net

It's a book written by Terry Laughlin that explains swimming principles in a straight forward manner. You can pick up one of the books for $15 at Borders...

I, not being a lap swimmer, had stroke counts around 22-25 per 25 yds. I just started working on the drills, 1-3. I know you're supposed to focus mainly on drills...but I decided to put in some laps last night as well. I was able to swim 400 without stopping (good for me just starting out)...and my stroke count was down to 18-20...and that was after just two sessions in the pool...

Honestly, I think anything would have helped me...but I went with TI because it seems to work for others...and it doing well for me so far.

I am always testing my ablility to lower my spl, but I learned from TI training that a low spl does not neccessarily mean efficiency.

A swimmer’s lowest stroke count should be one that is achieved with no strain, no bad form or delays in your stroke rhythm, no extra kicking effort. It should be quiet, flowing, relaxed, effortless.   

If you lower your stroke count but your time to complete your lap increases, then you are not accomplishing your goal of efficiency.   

Be aware of a count that is too low.  Since a swimmer’s breathing rhythm is connected to each stroke, a low stroke count also may cause oxygen deprivation.  Think about the ability to hold that low stroke count for distance.  If you can’t then you may need add a stroke or two to be able to go faster (or maintain speed)without getting out of breath and holding your form almost indefinately.

Edited by kepola 2005-02-04 3:58 PM

Wow..  thank you all for you advise and answers.  I am going to pick up the TI book today...  I checked their schedule and they are not comming to the Houston area anytime soon..   oh well... the book will do I hope....

cheers

Edited by velasqu7 2005-02-06 1:43 PM