Tri bike vs. Road bike questions answered

I just bought a tri bike and so much of what they have to say about modding a road bike makes sense!!  So now I have my road bike for group rides and commuting, my tri bike for races and my mountain bike for snow.

Thanks for the article!!

Thanks for the link!

It helped explain to me the differences between a roadie and a tri bike, but actually I have more questions than before.

I'm still a newbie but would like to get a road or tri bike, but fear that a tri bike would be too aggressive (as in too aero) ... yet with a road bike I would not want to have to support my upper body the whole time with my arms and shoulders.

My hands and arms already go numb just in the short sprint tri's I do, albeit with a hybrid bike.

I would like to learn to ride in aero position and even try to simulate this on my hybrid, but since I'm not fit enough or experienced enough yet I would still like the option of raising up every so often and giving myself a break.

Is it possible to ride in an upright position with a tri bike?

Before I read the article I thought my best choice would be a road bike with clip-on aero bars, that way I can have the option to ride upright for a while if I need to, and also have the aero bars for when I want to get into the aero position - but this article talks about how using clip-on aero bars with a road bike geometry causing you to have to stretch too far and how it cramps you too much in the angle/clearance between your thighs and torso.

So, can you ride upright on a tri bike?

Or, can you use aero clip-on bars on a road bike but have the seat post and/or other setup options on a road bike adjusted in such a way so that when you do go down into an aero position that it is a correct position?

I understand this would most likely cause a normal road dropdown position or upright position to be out of whack or not comfortable or efficient .... but I would settle for this if it meant I could use the clip-on aero bars.

This way, I can have a more traditional road bike, dropdown type bar I'm more familiar with as a security net or something I can fallback too when tired .... but still have the aero bars where I can drop down and practice aero position and gradually build up to where I can ride aero the whole time.

Is it possible to setup a road bike to these parameters?

If by upright you mean riding like you would if your hands were on the top of road bars, yes you can do that with tri bikes.  Although it would be mor eliek riding with you hands on the brake hoods.  Sometimes I'll ride with my hands on the elbow pads.  But make sure you have good bike handling skills if you do that.

 You can also adjust stem angle giving you a more upright position. 

Yes, that is exacty what I was asking.

So, it would be possible to start out with a tri bike that has the stem more upright and I could also ride with my hands on top ... for times I want to take a breather or stretch out or drink water from a traditional water bottle ... and then as I progress I could have the stem adjusted to a more aero setting ..???

I really would like to get a tri bike, but was afraid it would just be too advanced for me, but maybe it would work for me afterall.

Any of you out there that had bought a tri bike but had to ease or work your way into riding aero all the time .... or did most of you already ride aero style on a road bike before getting a tri bike?

..

You can definetly ride a tri bike in the upright position though it is a bit tougher to switch gears if you have bar end shifters.  I know I debated about a tri or road bike for quite a while but I don't ever ride in groups and really just wanted to do triathlons.  I ended up buying a dedicated tri bike.  What I am actually finding is for me, once I got used to it, being on the aero bars is actually more comfortable as you are supporting some of your weight on your elbows.  My main complaint would be that it puts more pressure on a particular part of the male anatomy but I have found that just riding more and a new saddle have helped that quite a lot. 

I can't comment on the tri bike part, but I can comment on the road bike with aerobars.  (That is what I have.)  When I had the bars installed, I knew I was never going to get a true "tri" fit on the road bike due to the fork and seat tube angle.  What they did for me was put in a new, more forward seatpost and move the seat forward.  Thus, getting everything more forward.  The problem I am seeing with this is that even with these mods, I still can't get forward enough and the more forward I get, the more my head is completely over my front tire.  ~That is not a comforting feeling.  I have learned that this is what I am going to have to live with until I get a true tri bike.  It's not bad, just not exactly where it should be, but it will do the job.  I can get in a decent aero position without any discomfort.  It's not a bad way to go if you don't yet want to spend the money on a tri bike.  Actually, to my surprise, the girl who owns the bike shop I go to told me NOT TO BUY A NEW TRI BIKE!!  Kind of shocked the heck out of me, but she told me to get through this season to make sure tri's are for me.  With that kind of help from the shop owner, my tri bike (eventually) will be from there.

Interesting thing that Slowman (Dan Empfield, original ironman and founder of Quintana Roo bikes) said that I partially agree with .........

Most average AGers would be better served getting a road bike and putting on a good set of clip-ons than getting a true tri bike.  Has to do a lot with proper fitting and abilities on the bike.

Just sayin' ........

I have a road bike and had a fitting for riding aero.  I've never had the problems the article mentions about sore back and thigh and torso too close.   I did a HIM in Sept. and was aero for 99% of it w/ no problems.  I've heard complaints about hills at races and didn't put it together that it might be the tri bikers that had trouble, which is something the article mentions.  At some point I would like to try a tri bike to see how the transition to running is effected and how the handling feels, tho.  Someday, if I'm ever a flatlander again.

Thanks for the informational article!

Myth, there is no such thing.

According to the article there is a difference.  Some study was referenced.

point of clarification: Tom Warren is the original ironman.

carry on...

"The study is known as “The Garside Study” and is used in triathlon bike fitting schools such as Dan Empfield’s Fit Institute of Slowtwitch (F.I.S.T.). The Garside study tested athletes in a biomechanical setting, in other words, aerodynamics on the bike were not a factor in the results: Aerodynamic benefits would be in addition to the biomechanical benefits from a triathlon bike. Test subjects performed a 40 kilometer (24.8 mile) time trial on a road geometry bike in a stationary trainer followed immediately by a 10 kilometer (6.2 mile) run on a treadmill. Later the same test subjects repeated the test protocol but used a triathlon geometry bike on the stationary trainer then transitioned immediately to the treadmill for the 10 kilometer run. Time savings for athletes running off the triathlon bike were enormous: They averaged a full 5 minutes time savings on the 10 kilometer run when they transitioned off a tri bike as opposed to transitioning off a road bike. Simply put, you’ll run faster and more comfortably off a triathlon bike than a road bike."

My own study concluded I am as slow running off my tri bike as I was off my road bike.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but maybe just expand it a little ....

... but if this were the case then that a road bike can be fitted well enough for an aero position so that you don't get problems with back pain, being stretched out too far, and having the thighs too close to the torso ... or there certain styles or brands of road bikes that are better suited to an aero fitting than others?

Are there some specific things to look for, certain types of seats or seat posts, or a certain tube angle/geometry, etc ... so that if I decide to pick a road bike, I can pick one that would more easily be converted to a tri-like bike/aero position????

//

Yes, he was "The Ironman" ...... Slowman just happened to be in the race as well ........

And as to the study?  Bogus.  Your pace running off the bike has nothing to do with "tri geometry" as it is completely different from manufacturer to manufacturer.  If there was some "magical" geometry, every tri bike would have it and every pro would use it ..... and that ain't the case .........

I am certainly no expert, but I would say most can be converted given a proper seat post and stem length.  I feel a little stretched out, but not too bad.  I might try a shorter stem just to feel the difference.  BTW, I have an old trek 5200 road bike.

 I'm prepared to believe you, but how do you explain the results from the quoted study?  Are you saying that the results were completely fabricated, or are you saying there is another reason for the difference in 10k run times?  Just curious.

Fitter changed out my stem to a shorter one.  I understand there are seat posts that can put you in a more tri position also.

ETA: I only did this because I already owned a road bike.  If I knew I would love doing tris 7 years ago, I might have purchased a tri bike instead.  But I didn't and it seems to work fine for me.  And it was a heck of a lot cheaper than any tri bike I've seen.

Sure but I was curious if there was some specific reason to discount the results in this particular study.  And it looks like there is... (from http://fitwerx.com/bike_fitting/science-and-steep-seat-angles/ 

...the Garside study was completed indoors on a single stationary bike. There is no indication that important variables like saddle height or the length of the cockpit were changed between the two seat angles tested. The study only mentioned the seat angle and handlebar height as being adjusted and it is unlikely that a proper fit for each subject was able to be obtained in either position. It also does not speak of aerobars being used; which indicates that the athletes were probably not riding in a true aero position, but were instead just riding in a more forward and upright position during the tests. Furthermore, the athletes were limited to riding at 70% of their maximum VO2 – which may not duplicate a true race scenario. How does this all effect the results? It is impossible to tell without doing a more controlled study, but the implications are certainly worth thinking about.