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2008-07-29 3:11 PM

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Elite
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Subject: Trainers & Netathlon
Even though we're still enjoying the good weather, I'm already thinking ahead to a time when I won't be riding on the road, and will once again be relegated to the basement and my trainer (otherwise known as hell).

So with that in mind, I've been really trying to convince (beg, plead, etc.) my wife that my training this winter justifies the expense of a Computrainer. So far - no luck. The fact that it would be more expensive than my bike doesn't help matters.

So I've been trying to search for something that may substitute not having a Computrainer and remove the boredom of the basement. I'm hoping to get some opinions on Trainers, and am really interested to know if anyone is using them with the Netathlon software. (This link is for the 1.0 version but their site shows a 2.0 version - but does not have as good an explanation fo the software).

http://www.fitcentric.com/html/netathlon_1_0.htm

It seems very cool, and appears to have the ability to alter your terrain, etc. ala a Computrainer, but I'm hoping some people can offer up their opinions. It also seems that people can race one another, and I wasn't sure if a BT group participated in any type of virtual race league.

Thanks


2008-07-29 3:16 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Tyler,
Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon

i find watching rambo or karate kid movies seem to help. if you have surround sound that will boost the effect of the explosions.

2008-07-29 3:18 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon

squishybelly - 2008-07-29 2:11 PM The fact that it would be more expensive than my bike doesn't help matters.
I think that just means you need a new, more expensive bike too!

 Sorry, no help with the software, but I will probably show it to my DH who also wants a Computrainer.

2008-07-30 7:44 AM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Just bumping this back up to the top to see if anyone else has experience with Netathlon.
2008-07-30 7:44 AM
in reply to: #1567953

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
I use Netathlon extensively in the winter for riding during the week. I have a Tacx I-Magic trainer (not the Fortius). It is very realistic, it alters resistance to simulate hills, etc. You can ride online with others or use virtual pacers (up to 20) to simulate large group rides. It definately keeps me in great shape over the winter as I routinely put about 60-80 miles a week on the trainer during the late fall, winter time period.

Do a search on Ebay, you can get an I-Magic trainer for about $600. It works fine with Netathlon and the included VR software from Tacx is very good also.

Another benefit of the I-Magic is that there is an online racing league. It certainly helps with the boredom normally brought about by training indoors.

Check out the league home page:

http://www.virtualcycling.org/Application%20directory/VCF2007/

Avoid the newer Fortius model however, as there are problems with the US version.
2008-07-30 12:50 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Thanks for the feedback Bob - have you had any issues with I Magic? I'd heard that some of the Tacx machines don't do so well with higher gradients and can max out at a certain level.



2008-07-30 1:23 PM
in reply to: #1570287

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
I have used it issue free for the last five years...

And yes the resistance does max out at about 6% grade, so anything more than that the resistance doesn't get any more difficult. I believe the I-Magic can simulate up to 850 watts or so. I have put a lot of miles on my trainer and never once said "I wish this thing had more resistance".

The Fortius, which uses a motorbrake to create resistance, on the other hand can simulate grades up to 20% I believe. However, it is not a stable product and from what I heard you get a lot of wheel hop and slipping of the tire when grades get above 10% or so.

For me, the I-Magic with its tried and true magnetic resistance is more than sufficient. I actually end up with a higher average heart rate during my trainer rides than my outdoor rides.

And I really enjoy the online competitions over the winter months.
2008-07-30 9:16 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
When using the I Magic or Netathlon are you able to program certain workouts like a Computrainer - i.e. This set wattage for this long, or create a course from scratch, etc?

Really appreciate the feedback.
2008-07-31 8:12 AM
in reply to: #1571772

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Yes. The I-Magic comes with a program called Catalyst that allows you to program workouts using wattage, resistance, heart rate, etc.

The I-Magic also has a lot of real-life videos that are mostly classic climbs like the Galibier, Alpe D'Huez, etc. These are the actual rides filmed in high definition that you ride and the trainer simulates the resistance at the proper time in the video.

This is the demo video for the Fortius, but the I-Magic uses the same software:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNu9bhJ7CD8

Here is a link to the Fortius manual, but again the I-Magic uses the same software:

http://www.tacx.com/mediatheek/files/pdf/handleidingen/vrtrainers/T...
2008-07-31 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
I'm really beginning to like the sound of this thing. I'm a bit confused about the difference between the I-Magic and the Fortius (since the I-Magic seems to run the Fortius software). Any ideas on why the Fortius is much more? I assume it has extra capabilities, just not sure what they are - although I did see it can take a grade up to 20%.

Thanks again.
2008-07-31 3:35 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Fortius has a motor brake rather than magnetic resistance. Basically it is an electric motor that operates in reverse while you pedal. It feeds the electricity you produce back into your main power system of your house. So basically you are generating power as you pedal. The cool thing about it is that it acutally does the pedaling for you as you descend. So the motor/brake acts as a motor and assists turning the back wheel so you really get the effect of coasting.

However, that is where the problem lies with the US Version of the Fortius. It seems that the US version (110V) has a 26MPH speed limit on descents, whereas the European version (220V) does not have this limitation. The US version is said to be very choppy at higher resistance levels also.

Tacx has promised for the last few year's to fix the US version, but they still haven't figured out how to make it work properly. That is why I never upgraded to the Fortius. The I-Magic on the other hand uses a standard magnetic resistance unit with a fly wheel. On descents there is no resistance, but there also isn't a motor turning the wheel either.

The I-Magic is pretty bulletproof, that's why I recommended it. It is also cheaper. You can usually find them for about $600-$700.

If you don't want to mess with ebay, Colorado Cyclist has them for $649 USD:

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/TACTTWXP

If Tacx ever gets the US version of the fortius working properly, I'll definately upgrade.

Edited by rventuri 2008-07-31 3:40 PM


2008-07-31 4:57 PM
in reply to: #1567953

Master
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
This is added to my do not need, but would like to have list. 
2008-07-31 8:56 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Bob - thanks for the continued info. Have you built your own courses? I know that with Computrainer you can load a gps file, which is super cool for any route/race you want to train on, but in looking at some of the info in the Fortius manual I still didn't figure out what the capabilities or limitations were. I know you can build a course, but that's about as far as I understood.

By the way - if I'm asking too many questions just let me know. I get this way when I'm excited about something.
2008-07-31 10:03 PM
in reply to: #1574025

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
rventuri - 2008-07-31 3:35 PM

Fortius has a motor brake rather than magnetic resistance. Basically it is an electric motor that operates in reverse while you pedal. It feeds the electricity you produce back into your main power system of your house. So basically you are generating power as you pedal. The cool thing about it is that it acutally does the pedaling for you as you descend. So the motor/brake acts as a motor and assists turning the back wheel so you really get the effect of coasting.

Wow that sounds awesome!

Aside from all this trainer talk, winter bike training has me chomping my nails down to nubs. I'm hoping that I can convince some of my fellow triathlete friends to schedule weekly "rides" where we all meet somewhere [our basement is big enough] and throw in a video of some sort and all ride our trainers together, just to break up the monotony. Something to think about also.
2008-08-01 5:55 AM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
I would be all over this if I could hook it up to my CycloOps trainer.
2008-08-01 9:26 AM
in reply to: #1567953

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Yes you can build a course either by using the Tacx software or using some online tools (www.ergotools.net) that allow you to take a GPS file or a HRM file from a Polar watch and create a Tacx Catalyst file with the proper distances and grades. Now just to be clear, the Tacx software doesn't give you the VR (silver rider) that you get with the Computrainer. Basically you get the hills in the right spots on the ride, but you aren't looking at a VR landscape ... what you see is the profile of the ride and where you are on the ride.

You can create courses in the Tacx VR software with the optional steerer ... but you are limited to the Tacx VR world here.

I definately don't mind the questions ... for me it has been a great product that has allowed me to hit the spring racing season in great condition.

I will say you need to be a little computer savvy to work with the Tacx software and Netathlon. It does some amazing stuff, but it is a little quirky at times with USB drivers, etc.


2008-08-01 10:18 AM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
That is very, very cool - and was initially one of the prime reasons I wanted the Computrainer - you could basically get a gps file for whatever ride you wanted and then load it and ride, perfect to get prepared for a race if you knew the route.

If I'm not mistaken there are sites that will let you create a gps file justing by using the map feature - although I may be wrong in this.

I'm liking the idea of this more and more.
2008-08-22 1:16 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon

I know this thread is a little old now, but I finally managed to pickup a used i-Magic with steering column.  It's a bit older so it has the actual i-Magic software as opposed to the newer Fortius software.  I know I'll want to upgrade to the Fortius software (I think it is a requirement for the RLV's) but I wonder if I can keep both software applications and perhaps run the older one if I feel the need - or will the upgrade wipe out the older software?

2008-08-22 2:40 PM
in reply to: #1621725

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
The new software does not overwrite the old. They actually install in separate folders, so you can continue to use both. I personally like some of the courses in the old VR world, especially Capricorn, so I continue to use it along with the new VR terrains.

That is another reason I haven't gone to the Fortius since it can only use the new softare.

Be sure to download the 10-day trial version of Netathlon. It along with the RLVs and Fortius software really add a lot of variety to your winter training.

Be sure to sign up for the league this winter. It is a lot of fun, and really helps keep you sharp over the winter.



Edited by rventuri 2008-08-22 2:44 PM
2008-08-22 2:47 PM
in reply to: #1574849

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon

Wow that sounds awesome! Aside from all this trainer talk, winter bike training has me chomping my nails down to nubs. I'm hoping that I can convince some of my fellow triathlete friends to schedule weekly "rides" where we all meet somewhere [our basement is big enough] and throw in a video of some sort and all ride our trainers together, just to break up the monotony. Something to think about also.

I can only imagine the looks my wife would give me if I explained to her that I would do this.  She already this I am half crazy this would make her shake her head.

(But I would totally do it, thank God for Texas winters)

2008-08-22 7:30 PM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon

Bob, do you use the Catalyst feature much?  I see that you can create the workouts based on power, slope, etc.  It looks like you could create some programs that would kick your butt quite a bit.  I'm trying to decide if it makes more sense to just "ride" for the winter, which is totally possible on this trainer, or follow some structured workouts.

I found a website that lets me download other peoples virtual courses that they created as well as their times.  I set one up earlier and got to ride a new VR course while racing (and losing) to 5 other people's saved times - very, very cool.

Do you manage to monitor HR on your trainer.  I tried both my Garmin and Timex straps but neither got picked up - not sure if I'm supposed to do anything, or if it should pick it up automatically.

 I'll still pickup a copy of the Fortius software because the RLV's look too good to pass up, but my first attempt to buy it failed since the shop won't ship Tacx products into Canada.  I'll have to find another way to buy a copy in the US since I'm not willing to pay double -which is being charged by shops north of the border.



2008-08-24 3:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Any Polar HR strap should work. I would be the cheapest (uncoded) Polar strap you could find. Not sure if the Timex or Garmin straps work, but the Polar definately does as I always monitor my HR during traing rides.

Make sure that you turn HR on in the software. Not sure if if is off or not by default. Do you see the red light on the Tacx unit that attaches to your handlebars? If you do, that means it is picking up you HR.

I don't use Catalyst all that much, since I spend most of time in the winter racing in the online league, or doing recovery rides (mostly in Netathlon).

You can definately but in some big efforts in the league:

http://www.virtualcycling.org/Application%20directory/VCF2007/Rider...

Have you tried Tacx's online shop:

http://www.tacx.com/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=30&language=EN&osCsi...

I would think that they could ship to Canada.
2008-08-25 8:37 AM
in reply to: #1567953

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon

I keep peppering you with questions, but here's another one.  Any idea how accurate / inaccurate the power readings are?  And is there a difference between the iMagic and Fortius software for power - nto sure how it is calculated?

Even if the actual watts are off I won't be too concerned, just as long as the readings are consistent so I can build a base and then work on improving it from there. 

I ran my Garmin last night for HR readings on a 27km course and found that the distance and time splits were almost equal to what the iMagic was telling me.  I had kind of expected them to be different, so I was pleasently surprised that it worked.  (Too bad the software won't pick up my HR cause then they would be 100% compliant with each other).  This way I can still download my ride into BT (see my log).

I like the idea of riding in the League since it will give me something to aim for - do they still run the iMagic league as well as Fortius?  I noticed you only rode Fortius this year, but had ridden iMagic in 07.

2008-08-25 1:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
I believe the power reading with the I-Magic software is fairly accurate. The Fortius software seems to inflate the power number quite a bit. You can see that be looking at my power numbers in the I-Magic league vs. the Fortius league. I think it is generally accepted by the Fortius users that the power numbers are too high.

Last time I checked, there were active leagues for both the Fortius and the I-Magic software. You just get more participation in the Fortius leagues.

Also ... not sure if the software you got with the trainer included the two other I-Magic terrains that were added later (Cycledream and Sipscape).

Towards the middle of this thread there are some links that will allow you to download the terrains and updates to the I-magic software (check your version first).

http://www.tacxvr.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=33700&sid=f9c9e045f327...

I hardly ever use Cycledream as it is a Mtn Bike course, but I use Sipscape a lot.

Don't mind the questions.

Edited by rventuri 2008-08-25 1:52 PM
2008-08-25 7:49 PM
in reply to: #1626269

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Subject: RE: Trainers & Netathlon
Actually, ForestPark is the MTB terrain. Cycledream is the track.

Not sure if you can still get ForestPark.
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