Tempo Runs (from letsrun)

I think it is more of a definition misunderstanding than anything. We've had those in here as well in which some interprate Tempo runs as "X" intensity while others interprate it as "Y" intensity. I've done that mistake before hence now I try to prescribe running only by pace/RPE and refer to it using Easy, Steady, Marathon and Threshold pace using Daniles formula.

IMO what Malmo's refer to Tempo runs are efforts below threshold pace (i.e. Marathon pace) hence you can get to do those more often cuz the recovery cost shouldn't be as high as doing Threshold sessions. Daniels talks about this in his book and he provideds a table with scaled paces when you go longer for T pace. Anway, I would agree with the premise that if you run below threshold you can get to do those sessions more often but I would only suggest that on a case to case basis

Yup, Daniels says a true Tempo run is merely a steady 20 minute run at a hard pace that you COULD maintain for an hour.  This would vary from 10k pace for a slower runner up to a 1/2 mary. for a faster runner.  And I really thought that the chart showing the scaled paces for extending a tempo run out to an hour was pretty interesting.  Basically you get a few second reduction in pace for every few minutes you add to the run up to an hour.

What is really interesting is that he emphasizes the point that the run should be on a pretty flat course so you can run a consistent PACE and not necessarily a consistent effort.  He advises against varied terrain and trying to look at EFFORT for the time.

I've always approached them as consistent EFFORT over the scheduled period of the run all the way up to about 45 minutes or so for my longest.

Daniels also says to take your M pace (marathon pace) runs all the way up to around 2 hours.  And that an E day (easy pace) where you are feeling good and the conditions are right can easily turn into an M paced run without any repercussions to the training load.

Pfitzinger - Douglas define a tempo run as more of consistent effort at 15k to 1/2 mary. pace over the prescribed distance.

Just goes to show you that everyone is different.  Key thing to remember is that when you are working WITHIN the framework of a coaching strategy, as long as you know the clear parameters of the definition, then you will know what workout pace/effort to do.

The reason I bring this up is due to the fact that I think people run tempos too hard, and I thought the distinction Malmo makes is a good one.

FYI, Malmo is the former AR holder for the half marathon.

My opinion on it:

Go by feel.  It should feel harder than your easier days, but you want to finish not feeling beat up.  How much harder?  Dunno, depends on you.

And I would say ....... what is your planned pace for the 1/2 mary?  That is what I would use for the tempo run.  Just my opinion.

I haven't read the letsrun blog, but isn't it probably not the best idea to do your training based on paces you hope to achieve in the race...especially for a self-proclaimed relative newb who doesn't have past HM performances on which to base his goal? Shouldn't the pace be determined from previous performances, such as a 10K, 5K, etc.?

Using McMillan's pace calculator and a 2:00:00 half marathon time:

Yes, that is correct.  It should be based on previous performances.  But the poster mentioned they are already typically running in the 9 - 9:30 range, which tells me that a 9:00 pace for the half is easily achievable (with training).

Let's do it this way ...... what is a real race result time for a run for you.  Can be a 5k, 10k, whatever, but something you have run recently as a hard race effort.  Then we can give you a realistic range of where to run a tempo session.

Because if your 5k pace is currently 9:00, then there is very little chance you can sustain that for a 1/2.  If that is the case, then I rescind my other statements on what you should be running for a tempo effort.

A lot of this is why I think it's really tough to say "You should be hitting this pace", which is really what Malmo was getting at in the first place.

To him, a tempo run is just a moderately difficult run.  Like he said, you should be able to do it every day if you wanted to.  That says to me, it's not tied to a specific pace, but tied to how you're feeling.

Regarding long run pace vs. tempo pace vs. easy pace:

It depends on what you're training for, where you are in your training.  My long runs most of the time are at a slightly easier pace.  I generally run them slower than marathon pace, but then pick it up on some of them to act as practice for a marathon.

Really, I think the best thing to consider is that you not worry about "tempo".  You can go much simpler than all that, which is what I've started doing.  I don't have tempo, long, or any of that.  I have three categories:  easy, medium, hard; I rate each run based on how I feel.  My tempo runs would be medium to hard.

Something from Malmo that hit home with me:  Paraphrasing.... 'Don't treat your tempo runs like races or time trials.'

I think I made this mistake following a program (Runner's World) that prescribed tempo runs at "x" pace and mile-repeats at "y" pace for a Spring half-marathon.  Each of these weekly runs were HARD!  Not that there's anything wrong with running hard, just that I was so focused on hitting the paces that the rest of the week, I was hurting.  I managed to get through without injury.  However, I wonder if I could have made similar progress with less pain, running by "feel."

Now, training for a full marathon on 11/1, I'm doing weekly "tempo" runs, but am more cognizant/conservative with regard to how I'm feeling.  With marathon training, there's plenty of stress involved with building the weekly mileage and getting the long runs in.  The tempo runs are the gravy and I'm not willing to risk injury for the expected marginal gain.  This is further reiforced by the fact that I already feel "stressed" from the increase in mileage, manifesting itself in the aches and pains in my feet and knees.   I fear that pushing or "racing" my tempo runs would likely result in injury.

Admitingly, I'm a Daniels reader and have historically used the McMillian tables for training paces.  It's just that the marathon is a big, ugly animal, that I love dearly.  .  I have love/hate relationship with the beast.  Respect the beast and train smart.  Of course, this will all go out the window in 2009 when I train my A$$ of to qualify for Boston! 

ETA:  I think all of Scout's posts are finally getting through to me...

mbmoran2 - 2008-09-10 4:44 PM I have love/hate relationship with the beast.  Respect the beast and train smart.  Of course, this will all go out the window in 2009 when I train my A$$ of to qualify for Boston! 

I am still in that "hate" phase right now .. which is ironic since I'm signed up to run another one next month.  But there is zero expectation and zero desire to push it on this one.  It is simply to participate and enjoy a leisurely run through Baltimore.

I won't have Scout there forcing me to go faster than planned this time, thank goodness!

Scary, ain't it?

I actually do make sense on some level.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I'm still undecided.

Only a few spots left according to the e-mails ......... and I ain't gonna be able to push you into a BQ, you'd have to hit that one on your own!!  My distance fitness just isn't there.

Eh, mine either.  Most likely, I'm taking the year off from any major races, just because.