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2009-07-02 8:35 AM

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Subject: Drops vs Hoods

This is probably more of a question aimed at people who do not have aerobars or tri-bikes but of course any opinion is welcome.

I ride a road bike and am trying to use the drops more as I get more into triathlons. During a race I manage to use the drops almost the whole time.

But in training I would get uncomfortable using them the whole time so when do you mainly use them, is it predominately downhill, on the flats, all the time or none of the time?

When do you gain the most benefit from using them, I assume on the downhill sections but would like confirmation.

Should I give some serious thought to adding aerobars?



2009-07-02 8:36 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

Bob the Trier! - 2009-07-02 8:35 AM

Should I give some serious thought to adding aerobars?

yes.

2009-07-02 8:38 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
For me the drops put me at the same height (or really close to) as my aero bars. The aero bars just pull your arms in. In training rides I can't stay in either for more then a mile, but in a race I can go about 3-4 before having to get out. I only use them on down hills or flats because I lose a lot of power when I'm in them.



Edited by fsr402 2009-07-02 8:38 AM
2009-07-02 8:39 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

Bob the Trier! - 2009-07-02 8:35 AM

This is probably more of a question aimed at people who do not have aerobars or tri-bikes but of course any opinion is welcome.

I ride a road bike and am trying to use the drops more as I get more into triathlons. During a race I manage to use the drops almost the whole time.

But in training I would get uncomfortable using them the whole time so when do you mainly use them, is it predominately downhill, on the flats, all the time or none of the time?

When do you gain the most benefit from using them, I assume on the downhill sections but would like confirmation.

Should I give some serious thought to adding aerobars?

Yes, you should give some serious thought to adding aerobars.  They give the most aerodynamic advantage per dollar spent of all upgrades, I understand.  There are basic ones out there for about $50, and I picked up a used pair for about $40 that suit me just fine.

When I'm out on road rides, I generally ride on the hoods.  I go down into the drops if I am pushing hard or if I am going into a head wind.  Generally, though, I am probably on the hoods 80% of the time.

2009-07-02 8:46 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

It's mainly about comfort.  I like the drops better and probably spend most of my time there, but if my back needs a break I'll come up to the hoods.

Clip on aeros are a pretty cheap way to get into a position that will create a lot less drag.  I did that for a long time before I built a tri bike.  Found it pretty comfortable and definitely got a speed gain.

2009-07-02 8:55 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I switch back and forth between the drops and the hoods.  If I'm on a level road or downhill, it's usually the drops.  Climbing I might go up on the hoods or if I just need to change the position of my hands.

and I will add another vote for the clip on aerobars.


2009-07-02 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
paddle2paddle - 2009-07-02 9:39 AM

Yes, you should give some serious thought to adding aerobars.  They give the most aerodynamic advantage per dollar spent of all upgrades, I understand.  There are basic ones out there for about $50, and I picked up a used pair for about $40 that suit me just fine.

When I'm out on road rides, I generally ride on the hoods.  I go down into the drops if I am pushing hard or if I am going into a head wind.  Generally, though, I am probably on the hoods 80% of the time.



^x2 -- clip-on aero bars would probably be useful, you can pick up a cheap pair on Craigslist any day of the week, and even if you don't like them, you won't be out a whole lot of money.

I don't ride in the drops very much, either -- generally only if I'm encountering a really strong head wind, or if I'm going downhill on an unusually nice road surface and don't have to worry about needing to suddenly brake.  So I would say that I'm on the hoods about 90% of the time.
2009-07-02 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I am relatively new to the tri world, but I also ride a road bike and think about my hand placement and the advantages of such....

I am a clydesdale and it is Very obvious how much more wind I catch as soon as I come up off the drops. I try to stay on them as long as possible-trainning and racing. I would consider aero bars after your back has strengthened enough to stay in the lower position of the drops for longer than just a couple miles. As someone else said, aero bars put you in a very similar body tilt position.

just my 2 cents

Dr P
2009-07-02 9:14 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
Thanks for the comments so far.

Another quick question, I always thought aerobars would push you much further forward meaning it would be more uncomfortable then the drops but is the position of your back actually quite comparable between the two?
2009-07-02 9:24 AM
in reply to: #2257795

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

fsr402 - 2009-07-02 8:38 AM For me the drops put me at the same height (or really close to) as my aero bars. The aero bars just pull your arms in. In training rides I can't stay in either for more then a mile, but in a race I can go about 3-4 before having to get out. I only use them on down hills or flats because I lose a lot of power when I'm in them.

You should really go get a good fit with them. there is this strange myth that riding Aero should be hard on your body and "something" you get used to or just gut out. Pros do 6-7 hr rides in aero and you can better belive if it was not comfortable they would not do it... it is not something they worked up to.
If you cannot spend more than 4 miles in aero at a time, you need to have your fit looked at. DO NOT accept the fact that they are uncomfortable and you have to get used to being that way.

I can ride all day in the aero position and not get tired. It is very comfortable and is like laying down... I actually prefer aero to sitting up with my hands on the hoods, bars whatever you call them. I have to remind myself every hour to sit up and stretch the legs for a few seconds and then get back in to position.

I have had several FITS to dial in the position and I always have a yearly check up as my flexibility or fitness improves or get worse... one FIT will sometimes not last you for years and years.

Get a good fit, something you are comfortable with even if you are more upright than some of your buddies. Start there and as you get more flexible and fit, get re-fit and get lower... You do not have to start on the bottom ring...

But riding aero should not be something you work into...

2009-07-02 9:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
fsr402 - 2009-07-02 7:38 AM

For me the drops put me at the same height (or really close to) as my aero bars. The aero bars just pull your arms in. In training rides I can't stay in either for more then a mile, but in a race I can go about 3-4 before having to get out. I only use them on down hills or flats because I lose a lot of power when I'm in them.



I have clip-ons on my roadie and when I'm on them I'm about four inches below my position on the drops. I ride in that position uphill, downhill, and on flats. And the best part is I haven't modified the geometry so it rides exactly like a road bike even when I'm on the aerobars.



2009-07-02 9:29 AM
in reply to: #2257785


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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I have been riding in the drops for a little bit and it gets easier.  Somebody once gave me some great advise.  Switch every 5 min from the drop to the hoods.  Then on each ride ater try to spend more and more time in the drops.  Now I find myself going to the drps without thinking about it.  For my 15 mile sprint I plan to ride in the drops the entire time.  Just force yourself and it will become easy after a while...
2009-07-02 9:36 AM
in reply to: #2257973

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
Breckview - can you expand a little more please - what body part(s) are you using to determine that you are @4 inches below on the aero's - your arms/back/all of the above?
Thanks,
Ed
2009-07-02 9:51 AM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I'd atleast get some shorty's for racing. Even without shorty's I always put my forearms on the top of my bars when I'm on the road bike down a windy wide open rode.

Those new 3T bars look pretty cool, if we had more/any draft races I'd buy them for my S1.
2009-07-02 9:54 AM
in reply to: #2258019

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
edmac - 2009-07-02 8:36 AM

Breckview - can you expand a little more please - what body part(s) are you using to determine that you are @4 inches below on the aero's - your arms/back/all of the above?
Thanks,
Ed


If I'm on the aerobars and I take one hand off and put it beside the drops, the area between my thumb and index finger which would normall sit on the drops is 4 inches lower. I have all kinds of fit photos as well but that's the easiest way to demonstrate my position verbally. Because I haven't modified the geometry of my position at all otherwise, I'm just more "bent-over" at the hips (smaller hip angle) like a roadie in aero descent position.
2009-07-02 12:23 PM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

For the drops vs. hoods question, on my road bike, I am in the drops almost 100% of the time if I am racing a criterium, maybe 60-75% of the time when I am doing a road race and 50% of the time or less in training. I go in the drops when I want to be more aerodynamic and I also find the braking a little easier from the drops. I am in the drops on long downhills and when I am taking a pull or riding in a fast paceline. My training rides are usually at least 2 hours each, and on the weekends, usually 4 hours, so staying in the drops the whole time would not be comfortable.

If I am racing a Timetrial, I am in the aerobars, 99% of the time.



2009-07-02 12:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
trigods - 2009-07-02 10:24 AM

fsr402 - 2009-07-02 8:38 AM For me the drops put me at the same height (or really close to) as my aero bars. The aero bars just pull your arms in. In training rides I can't stay in either for more then a mile, but in a race I can go about 3-4 before having to get out. I only use them on down hills or flats because I lose a lot of power when I'm in them.

You should really go get a good fit with them. there is this strange myth that riding Aero should be hard on your body and "something" you get used to or just gut out. Pros do 6-7 hr rides in aero and you can better belive if it was not comfortable they would not do it... it is not something they worked up to.
If you cannot spend more than 4 miles in aero at a time, you need to have your fit looked at. DO NOT accept the fact that they are uncomfortable and you have to get used to being that way.



How many of the pros ride 6-7 hours in clip on aero bars attached to their road bike?  Wouldn't they just ride their tri bike then?  Putting bars on a road bike geometry is gonna change how your body is stretched out, even if you have a good fit on your road bike, right?  So why wouldn't it take a little time to get used to that position?   
2009-07-02 4:37 PM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I raced and trained for 1.5 years without aero bars. I never once used the drop down bars really. If I was racing a friend to the next street sign or lampost that was the only time.
2009-07-02 9:14 PM
in reply to: #2258656

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

chunta - 2009-07-02 12:41 PM
trigods - 2009-07-02 10:24 AM

fsr402 - 2009-07-02 8:38 AM For me the drops put me at the same height (or really close to) as my aero bars. The aero bars just pull your arms in. In training rides I can't stay in either for more then a mile, but in a race I can go about 3-4 before having to get out. I only use them on down hills or flats because I lose a lot of power when I'm in them.

You should really go get a good fit with them. there is this strange myth that riding Aero should be hard on your body and "something" you get used to or just gut out. Pros do 6-7 hr rides in aero and you can better belive if it was not comfortable they would not do it... it is not something they worked up to.
If you cannot spend more than 4 miles in aero at a time, you need to have your fit looked at. DO NOT accept the fact that they are uncomfortable and you have to get used to being that way.



How many of the pros ride 6-7 hours in clip on aero bars attached to their road bike?  Wouldn't they just ride their tri bike then?  Putting bars on a road bike geometry is gonna change how your body is stretched out, even if you have a good fit on your road bike, right?  So why wouldn't it take a little time to get used to that position?   

See that is the myth...

depends on the race that the pro is doing...

Actually I would say all of or 99% of pros have two bikes set up. One for tri geometry with bar end shifters and when they  do races like escape to alcatraz or IM switzerland, Lazorate etc they have a road or tri bike set up with STI shifters and a little more road geometry; especially if it is a technical course. Check out pics of C wellinton in some European races and she rides with STI shifter and bull horns or whatever you call them... and they do have shorty clips ons.
same for ITU pros, they basically ride road bikes with shorty clip ons and while the races are short for them I can tell you (a good friend is a ITU pro) they have long training rides just like the rest of us and they do them on road bikes set up for that style of racing.

And putting clip on bars does not have to stretch you out.. that is what reverse seat angles and shorter stems are for...

again it is all about the fit... a good fit will take you from being stretched out to being more comfortable on the bike by just changing to a shorter stem, maybe raing the bars and a little more forward seat angle...

FIT FIT FIT people... do not believe the myth that it has to be uncomfortable and you have to suffer and get used to it...



Edited by trigods 2009-07-02 9:17 PM
2009-07-02 9:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods

chunta - 2009-07-02 12:41 PM
trigods - 2009-07-02 10:24 AM

fsr402 - 2009-07-02 8:38 AM For me the drops put me at the same height (or really close to) as my aero bars. The aero bars just pull your arms in. In training rides I can't stay in either for more then a mile, but in a race I can go about 3-4 before having to get out. I only use them on down hills or flats because I lose a lot of power when I'm in them.

You should really go get a good fit with them. there is this strange myth that riding Aero should be hard on your body and "something" you get used to or just gut out. Pros do 6-7 hr rides in aero and you can better belive if it was not comfortable they would not do it... it is not something they worked up to.
If you cannot spend more than 4 miles in aero at a time, you need to have your fit looked at. DO NOT accept the fact that they are uncomfortable and you have to get used to being that way.



How many of the pros ride 6-7 hours in clip on aero bars attached to their road bike?  Wouldn't they just ride their tri bike then?  Putting bars on a road bike geometry is gonna change how your body is stretched out, even if you have a good fit on your road bike, right?  So why wouldn't it take a little time to get used to that position?   

 

Also I would tell you to look at the avatar of Breckview, he does not look stretchout on his bike at all. It is a road bike with clip ons.. his fit on the bike looks very comfortable and compact. Not stretch out at all...

Breckview, how comfortable are you on your bike? what are some of your longer rides like?

2009-07-02 10:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I ride a road bike that is equipped with clip-on aerobars.  I would say that I rarely use the drops.  The only times I use them are in a strong headwind or steep downhills..especially if there are tight curves (which is rare in my neck of the woods).  Occasionally, I will use the drops just to change up my hand position.  But normally, I will go back and forth between the hoods and my aerobars.  I tend to have a lot of hand numbing issues, along with wrist pain (early stages of arthritis, I think)...so I find it necessary to change my hand position every few minutes.  I will sometimes even use the pads on my aerobars as another position for my hands to rest.  Really puts me in a nice, upright position to give my lower back a rest.  But I only use that position in low traffic situations, when I know I won't be needing to grab my brakes or change gears. 


2009-07-04 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
OK well now my next question is, if you're in aero position on clip-ons and a forward seatpost with a road bike, your weight and position will be shifted forward relative to the BB.  Is this going to change the handling of the bike since more weight is on the front wheel?  If it does, is this a dramatic difference or not?  I can see putting aerobars on and changing the seatpost, stem length, etc to keep the same "cockpit" but don't see how it's the same as riding on a tri geometry bike.  Am I just missing something, overthinking it, or just reading too many fitting articles? 
2009-07-04 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
I guess I should also add in here that I agree that with a good fit that aero position shouldn't be hard.  Neither should a regular road position with good fit.  But I'm just having trouble seeing how you can get a good fit in aero position with road geometry and a road setup. 

Breck....is the aero position on your roadie a different feel in your body from riding on the drops?  Can you switch from one to the other on a ride and still feel like the bike fits and still have good power/efficiency?  Is one position harder on you than the other on that bike, or do you have to make adjustments based on what ride you're doing that day?
2009-07-04 4:05 PM
in reply to: #2257785

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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
Well...in my particular case, I ride a Cervelo Soloist Carbon...which I believe is designed so that the BB is slightly offset to account for the difference in road and tri geometry.  That being said, I do not use a forward seat post..I'm using the stock seat post (which on my bike is a 1-position post).  Cervelo does have a 2-position seat post, that I can buy...but so far, I haven't felt the need for it.  Also, the aerobars that I'm using do not extend past the brake hoods...they are Profile Design Jammers, which is a shorter style of aerobar designed for road bike use...so I'm not sure if I'm putting the same amount of weight on the front of the bike, as say, someone using a longer more-extended aerobar. 
2009-07-04 7:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Drops vs Hoods
trigods - 2009-07-02 8:19 PM
Also I would tell you to look at the avatar of Breckview, he does not look stretchout on his bike at all. It is a road bike with clip ons.. his fit on the bike looks very comfortable and compact. Not stretch out at all...

Breckview, how comfortable are you on your bike? what are some of your longer rides like?



I believe his avatar features his TTX, which is a "tri" bike. But there is no reason why adding clip ons to a road frame has to result in poor fit/form. I don't have clip ons mounted to my roadie, but I periodically ride w/ my forearms directly on the bars during long, relatively flat stretches when alone. Doesn't feel substantially different than when riding in my drops, and is a nice change of pace from time-to-time.
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