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Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ?
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 2009-07-19 9:03 AM |
Master  2702    CHINA GROVE N.C., North Carolina |  Subject: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ?This is the first year I've watched much of the TdF and I'm really getting into it (near addiction...  ). After seeing all the politics, posturing, etc. I'm wondering if the strongest overall rider usually wins ? Not a cynical or sarcastic question at all..... just an honest one. Responses should be interesting. |
| 2009-07-19 10:23 AM in reply to: #2294169 |
Member 81 | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? Usually the strongest rider wins. There have been exceptions, though. The most recent one being 2006 when Oscar Pereiro got the yellow after the field let him and a breakaway finish nearly thirty minutes up on Stage 13. The winner that year should probably have been Andreas Kloden. |
| 2009-07-19 10:33 AM in reply to: #2294169 |
| Regular 60 | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? Evidently not after how mad Hincampie was after yesterday's race... I'm in the same boat as you-- never kept up with it until this year. It really is addicting!!! Edited by jss8422 2009-07-19 10:47 AM |
| 2009-07-19 3:08 PM in reply to: #2294169 |
| Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? I live George, but he's nowhere near the best rider in the TdF |
| 2009-07-19 9:47 PM in reply to: #2294169 |
Master 2314 Gulf Shores, AL | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? i think he does, but sometimes team tactics can screw that up. I don't think thats an issue this year. |
| 2009-07-20 4:48 AM in reply to: #2294169 |
Champion 26509  Sydney | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? Good riders can have bad days or have crashes that seem to limit their ability to perform as expected.... Cadel in 2008 could be considered an example of that depending on your interpretation.... some will argue a stronger team (like CSC has in 2008) and no crash in that first week would have changed last years outcome.... up to you whether you think that! Actually Valverde too.... in some regard... last years tour was fascinating in that regard! Another example would be considered by some would perhaps be Raymond Poulidor who never won the Tour De France was considered the 'eternal second' by the French finishing on the poudium 8 times but never on the top step - his career considered with the success of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. Luis Ocana was considered another great rider who never won the race.... his career coincided with Eddy Mercx but in 1971 he looked sure to win until he crashed out while wearing the yellow jersey. Ummm....there was also the arguement that some years Ullrich was just as good as Armstrong and gave him a few scares... but the strength of the US Postal team ensured that Ullrich never had a second tour victory.... team tactics do come in to play...
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| 2009-07-20 8:12 AM in reply to: #2295256 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? kaqphin - 2009-07-20 5:48 AM Good riders can have bad days or have crashes that seem to limit their ability to perform as expected.... Cadel in 2008 could be considered an example of that depending on your interpretation.... some will argue a stronger team (like CSC has in 2008) and no crash in that first week would have changed last years outcome.... up to you whether you think that! Actually Valverde too.... in some regard... last years tour was fascinating in that regard! Another example would be considered by some would perhaps be Raymond Poulidor who never won the Tour De France was considered the 'eternal second' by the French finishing on the poudium 8 times but never on the top step - his career considered with the success of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. Luis Ocana was considered another great rider who never won the race.... his career coincided with Eddy Mercx but in 1971 he looked sure to win until he crashed out while wearing the yellow jersey. Ummm....there was also the arguement that some years Ullrich was just as good as Armstrong and gave him a few scares... but the strength of the US Postal team ensured that Ullrich never had a second tour victory.... team tactics do come in to play... Good history Cat. But as far as sports go, the TDF is probably one of the most reliable that the best person/team wins. It's highly unlikely that an underdog could come from nowhere and win the whole thing. I don't know the stats, but I'd think it was rare that someone wasn't picked at the beginning of the race as a contender and eventually won. Whereas in most professional sports, there are tons of examples of a team beginning the year ranked last and going undefeated or winning a championship. If you recall, Ulrich had a teammate (Vinokurov) who refused to accept his place on the team several of those years and that cost him on a few occasions when vino'd launch and the leaders would chase and Ulrich wouldn't be able to continually respond. So in that case, the team tactics were out the window for poor Jan. |
| 2009-07-20 8:35 AM in reply to: #2295435 |
Champion 26509 Sydney | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? GomesBolt - 2009-07-20 11:12 PM kaqphin - 2009-07-20 5:48 AM Good riders can have bad days or have crashes that seem to limit their ability to perform as expected.... Cadel in 2008 could be considered an example of that depending on your interpretation.... some will argue a stronger team (like CSC has in 2008) and no crash in that first week would have changed last years outcome.... up to you whether you think that! Actually Valverde too.... in some regard... last years tour was fascinating in that regard! Another example would be considered by some would perhaps be Raymond Poulidor who never won the Tour De France was considered the 'eternal second' by the French finishing on the poudium 8 times but never on the top step - his career considered with the success of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. Luis Ocana was considered another great rider who never won the race.... his career coincided with Eddy Mercx but in 1971 he looked sure to win until he crashed out while wearing the yellow jersey. Ummm....there was also the arguement that some years Ullrich was just as good as Armstrong and gave him a few scares... but the strength of the US Postal team ensured that Ullrich never had a second tour victory.... team tactics do come in to play... Good history Cat. But as far as sports go, the TDF is probably one of the most reliable that the best person/team wins. It's highly unlikely that an underdog could come from nowhere and win the whole thing. I don't know the stats, but I'd think it was rare that someone wasn't picked at the beginning of the race as a contender and eventually won. Whereas in most professional sports, there are tons of examples of a team beginning the year ranked last and going undefeated or winning a championship. If you recall, Ulrich had a teammate (Vinokurov) who refused to accept his place on the team several of those years and that cost him on a few occasions when vino'd launch and the leaders would chase and Ulrich wouldn't be able to continually respond. So in that case, the team tactics were out the window for poor Jan. Oh I agree its almost always one of the named favourites that wins.... The Ulrich/Vino/Kloden mess was best seen in 2005, the last time Lance won... the way they attacked each other was insane...but made for entertaining watching! Another recent thing to consider.... the year Contador won, 2007, he WAS NOT a named favourite at the beginning of the race. Levi was the team leader and Contador was there for the "experience".... Was he the best rider that year? I think so... was he a favourite before the race started? Nope...
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| 2009-07-20 10:12 AM in reply to: #2295256 |
Master 1688 ALSAGER, CHESHIRE. UK | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? kaqphin - 2009-07-20 10:48 AM Will she ever learn his real name?Good riders can have bad days or have crashes that seem to limit their ability to perform as expected.... Cadel Limpet in 2008 could be considered an example of that depending on your interpretation.... some will argue a stronger team (like CSC has in 2008) and no crash in that first week would have changed last years outcome.... up to you whether you think that! Actually Valverde too.... in some regard... last years tour was fascinating in that regard! Another example would be considered by some would perhaps be Raymond Poulidor who never won the Tour De France was considered the 'eternal second' by the French finishing on the poudium 8 times but never on the top step - his career considered with the success of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. Luis Ocana was considered another great rider who never won the race.... his career coincided with Eddy Mercx but in 1971 he looked sure to win until he crashed out while wearing the yellow jersey. Ummm....there was also the arguement that some years Ullrich was just as good as Armstrong and gave him a few scares... but the strength of the US Postal team ensured that Ullrich never had a second tour victory.... team tactics do come in to play...
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| 2009-07-20 10:16 AM in reply to: #2295490 |
Master 1688 ALSAGER, CHESHIRE. UK | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? kaqphin - 2009-07-20 2:35 PM Wiggins is third only 1m 46 behind. Was he a favourite at the start! Will he win it when Lance takes Bertie out in a tunnel?GomesBolt - 2009-07-20 11:12 PM kaqphin - 2009-07-20 5:48 AM Good riders can have bad days or have crashes that seem to limit their ability to perform as expected.... Cadel in 2008 could be considered an example of that depending on your interpretation.... some will argue a stronger team (like CSC has in 2008) and no crash in that first week would have changed last years outcome.... up to you whether you think that! Actually Valverde too.... in some regard... last years tour was fascinating in that regard! Another example would be considered by some would perhaps be Raymond Poulidor who never won the Tour De France was considered the 'eternal second' by the French finishing on the poudium 8 times but never on the top step - his career considered with the success of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. Luis Ocana was considered another great rider who never won the race.... his career coincided with Eddy Mercx but in 1971 he looked sure to win until he crashed out while wearing the yellow jersey. Ummm....there was also the arguement that some years Ullrich was just as good as Armstrong and gave him a few scares... but the strength of the US Postal team ensured that Ullrich never had a second tour victory.... team tactics do come in to play... Good history Cat. But as far as sports go, the TDF is probably one of the most reliable that the best person/team wins. It's highly unlikely that an underdog could come from nowhere and win the whole thing. I don't know the stats, but I'd think it was rare that someone wasn't picked at the beginning of the race as a contender and eventually won. Whereas in most professional sports, there are tons of examples of a team beginning the year ranked last and going undefeated or winning a championship. If you recall, Ulrich had a teammate (Vinokurov) who refused to accept his place on the team several of those years and that cost him on a few occasions when vino'd launch and the leaders would chase and Ulrich wouldn't be able to continually respond. So in that case, the team tactics were out the window for poor Jan. Oh I agree its almost always one of the named favourites that wins.... The Ulrich/Vino/Kloden mess was best seen in 2005, the last time Lance won... the way they attacked each other was insane...but made for entertaining watching! Another recent thing to consider.... the year Contador won, 2007, he WAS NOT a named favourite at the beginning of the race. Levi was the team leader and Contador was there for the "experience".... Was he the best rider that year? I think so... was he a favourite before the race started? Nope...
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| 2009-07-20 8:41 PM in reply to: #2295832 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? 4everblue - 2009-07-20 11:16 AM kaqphin - 2009-07-20 2:35 PM Wiggins is third only 1m 46 behind. Was he a favourite at the start! Will he win it when Lance takes Bertie out in a tunnel?GomesBolt - 2009-07-20 11:12 PM kaqphin - 2009-07-20 5:48 AM Good riders can have bad days or have crashes that seem to limit their ability to perform as expected.... Cadel in 2008 could be considered an example of that depending on your interpretation.... some will argue a stronger team (like CSC has in 2008) and no crash in that first week would have changed last years outcome.... up to you whether you think that! Actually Valverde too.... in some regard... last years tour was fascinating in that regard! Another example would be considered by some would perhaps be Raymond Poulidor who never won the Tour De France was considered the 'eternal second' by the French finishing on the poudium 8 times but never on the top step - his career considered with the success of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. Luis Ocana was considered another great rider who never won the race.... his career coincided with Eddy Mercx but in 1971 he looked sure to win until he crashed out while wearing the yellow jersey. Ummm....there was also the arguement that some years Ullrich was just as good as Armstrong and gave him a few scares... but the strength of the US Postal team ensured that Ullrich never had a second tour victory.... team tactics do come in to play... Good history Cat. But as far as sports go, the TDF is probably one of the most reliable that the best person/team wins. It's highly unlikely that an underdog could come from nowhere and win the whole thing. I don't know the stats, but I'd think it was rare that someone wasn't picked at the beginning of the race as a contender and eventually won. Whereas in most professional sports, there are tons of examples of a team beginning the year ranked last and going undefeated or winning a championship. If you recall, Ulrich had a teammate (Vinokurov) who refused to accept his place on the team several of those years and that cost him on a few occasions when vino'd launch and the leaders would chase and Ulrich wouldn't be able to continually respond. So in that case, the team tactics were out the window for poor Jan. Oh I agree its almost always one of the named favourites that wins.... The Ulrich/Vino/Kloden mess was best seen in 2005, the last time Lance won... the way they attacked each other was insane...but made for entertaining watching! Another recent thing to consider.... the year Contador won, 2007, he WAS NOT a named favourite at the beginning of the race. Levi was the team leader and Contador was there for the "experience".... Was he the best rider that year? I think so... was he a favourite before the race started? Nope...
Lance wouldn't do that. would he??? Wiggins wasn't a named favourite (as you spell it) but he was the team leader wasn't he because Van De Velde was injured in the Giro. So I think he gets a pass. He looked great yesterday, but we'll see if he can keep it up. |
| 2009-07-26 3:48 PM in reply to: #2294169 |
Master 1688 ALSAGER, CHESHIRE. UK | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? Yes. He did! |
| 2009-07-26 6:51 PM in reply to: #2294169 |
Master 1670 Harvard, Illinois | Subject: RE: Does the strongest overall rider usually win TdF ? I think it is the best rider on the best team wins. You put some of these guys one on one against each other and I think you would be surprised at the results. |
 2009-07-27 9:25 AM in reply to: #2294169 |
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