General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace... Rss Feed  
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2009-07-20 5:12 PM

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Subject: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...

Doing IM Lou, following the BT Beginner 20-week plan.  Training has gone well, and I'm relatively-strong on the bike.  In sprint/Oly tris, I'm top 10% on the bike and more like top 25% on the run and top 35% on the swim.

I do my training rides in between 17 mph-18.5 mph.  Fastest long rides to date have been a 5-hr, 90-mile, 17.7 mph just yesterday and a 3-hr, 55-mile, 18.3 mph about a month ago.

Question is... what pace should I aim for in the IM in order to conserve enough energy to run?  Full disclosure- this is my first IM and I'm literally just trying to finish.

The 17.7, 90-miler yesterday hurt.  The legs were burning pretty bad, and it took a full effort.  Sure, I could have run afterwards... but a marathon???

My gut tells me to back off the pace in the race and aim for about 16.5 mph.  Or even 16 mph.  Pushing myself to the "max" on the bike and trying for 17.5 mph wont save THAT much time:
     - 16 mph - 7:00 (hours)
     - 16.5 mph- 6:47
     - 17.5 mph - 6:24

Any major drawbacks to slowing down and taking it "easy" (easier than if I were doing a bike-only training day) during the bike?  I assume it's normal to back off non-brick training pace by ~10% during the IM?

 



Edited by kevinlbrown 2009-07-20 5:13 PM


2009-07-20 5:20 PM
in reply to: #2297130

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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
I've only done one, so take it for what it's worth, but I think aiming for a specific pace is a mistake.  The biggest thing I learned while training for IM was that "IM pace" was not a mph or a X:XX per 100, but an effort level.  If you aim for a certain mph and it's brutally hot, or hillier than you expect, or you have stomach issues, you are setting yourself up for a potential problem.   I did not have access to mph on my computer at IM because that number was irrelevant to me.  Only thing that mattered was HR (and some don't even use that) and a beeping timex watch to remind me to eat

The best advice I ever heard here for the bike was if you think you are in the "right" gear, downshift one gear easier.  I think that going easier than a bike only day not only is NOT a drawback, it's a pretty good pacing plan
2009-07-20 5:24 PM
in reply to: #2297149

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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...

What ChrisM said x2.  Trying to hold a certain MPH on the bike can lead to a long 26 mile walk.  I use a HRM to set my bike effort.  In training I note my average HR on all long rides and how I felt after the ride.  I then use this information to determine my race day pace.  See my sig line for my thoughts of riding too easy.

2009-07-20 5:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
my advice, do the triple brick workout, for what it is worth.

Bike 40k
Run 10k
Bike 40k
Run 10k
Bike 40k
Run 10k

You do that, you will know what pace/effort level you can sustain and still run at the end of the day. Learn you some nutrition too.

It will kick your .
2009-07-20 7:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
This is a great post!  I did my first century this weekend and while I was pushing the pace I realized that I was definitely going at an effort that was harder than my anticipated IM effort.

I did a brick and felt ok for the 30 minutes run, but having done a stand alone marathon I know that the painful miles are on the back half of the marathon.

Thanks for the great advice!
2009-07-20 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
Go do some long bricks and test it.  I went up to LP to train twice.  The first time I biked it 'silly ez' and i felt great running 4 miles afterwards.  The second time I biked it ez, I added 1 gear basically.  And I biked it 20 minutes faster and my legs were trashed.  So I now know exactly what my bike needs to feel like in order for me to feel good on the run.


2009-07-20 8:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
I use HR as a guide as well rather than aim for a speed. If I can gain more speed while keeping my HR in a smart, comfortable zone then great. But if it's windy, or hot or I'm just not feeling great, then my speed is lower. My coach gives me HR zones for each quarter or so of the ride so I can start out super conservatively and ramp it up gradually throughout while still maintaining energy for the run. Even after 114 miles my legs did not feel trashed and I was able to run a pretty fast (for me) 7 miles. That's been my longest brick to date but it makes me feel pretty good about the more conservative approach and at mile 20, I'm sure that will help!
2009-07-20 9:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
I haven't ridden with pace or speed on my bike computer for more than 3 years. I triangulate effort based on RPE, HR and my power numbers.

I don't even look at elapsed time that and speed can effect the way I perceive how things are going and muck up my pacing. Like others have said heat, cold, wind, rain all can effect your speed given same effort. You need to learn to be in tune with your body to know what you can do for 112 and run well off the bike.

Pretty sure that when your legs are burning that is not a pace you will want to do for an IM. You need to practice how you will race.

Another suggestion I'd make is make no time goals. IM is long day and lots of stuff can happen so just doing your best at every given time is best. Yah I know it is easier said than done not to make time goals but really it will make your pre race time and race day better. How you do in sprint/oly is not really relative to your IM pace. I know some folks say I want to finish in XXX which means a zzz swim, yyyy bike and rrr run. Well if swim is off 10' they push the bike and guess what they walk most of the run as they pushed to hard on the bike.

If you go to easy on the bike you have 26.2 to fix it on the run.
2009-07-20 10:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
This is all excellent.  Thank you.  A follow-up for those who say do not set a pace goal... or anyone else reading.

For those who have finished an IM, what was your ending bike pace relative to a bike-only, 100-mile training day in the weeks prior to the race?  In other words, no matter how you approached the race (HR only, listening to your body, etc)... where did your bike pace fall in line with previous training rides?

Thanks again!
2009-07-20 10:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...

I am from the "only done one" camp but echo what others have said. Pace by effort, not by speed. I knew going into my IM that if I stayed around 130 BPM I would be fine and if everything was right (weather, nutrition, etc.) I would be fine. Ended up at 16.4 MPH for a 6h 39m ride. Not fast, but within my goal range so a success.

2009-07-20 11:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
Good thread, very interesting to me as I have my first 70.3 in 13 days and I am trying to determine my race effort.

I used the BT intermediate 70.3 training plan and trained by HR zone.

So for the bike, what zone were you racing in or what zone do you recommend racing in?

For my only other Tri (Oly) my bike was almost entirely Z3 and then my run was Z3 and the beginning and Z4 at the end.
Does that sound reasonable for a 70.3?


2009-07-21 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...

I've always liked the IM race-day execution advice from Rich Strauss.  I copied his typical bike pacing advice below.  Here's a link to his coaching site to give him props.  http://www.endurancenation.us

To me, it boils down to this:  (Get a HRM) + (Learn how to use it) + (Follow the bike pacing advice below) = (Have a good day)

Simple.  :-)

 

Pacing

An effective pacing plan enables you to enter miles 16-18 of the run focused and prepared to not slow down.

Swim = Form
Your pace is defined by your ability to maintain good form.  Only swim as fast as you can maintain good form.

Bike = Patience and Discipline
Exercise patience and discipline to ride your race and ignore the athletes around you.  Your goal is to ride an 82 mile bike after a 30 mile warm-up.  You make or break your bike leg in the first 30 miles.  Be patient.

Miles 1-30

· Overall Goals: Settle into a comfortable cycling rhythm, establish food and drink strategy.
· Effort Guidelines: Pace should feel easy.
· Heart Rate Guidelines: Once the heart rate has settled from the swim, typically upper heart rate Zone 1.
· Notes: You should be holding back through this whole segment.

 

Miles 31-60

· Overall Goals: A continued emphasis on nutrition and hydration, as well as an overall assessment of how the day is progressing.
· Effort Guidelines: Pace should feel easy.
· Heart Rate Guidelines: Typically, Zone 2 effort.
· Notes: The goal of this stage is to maintain a steady effort at goal Ironman-distance bike pace.

 

Miles 61-90

· Overall Goals: This is the meat of the ride. Here is where early ride pacing pays off or takes its toll. Goal should be to work a little harder than goal effort. Athletes that have paced properly will begin to move up the field.
· Effort Guidelines: Pace should feel steady. Hills and rollers will see efforts up to moderately hard intensity. Avoid hard intensity.
· Heart Rate Guidelines: Typically, upper Zone 2 effort with short periods of Zone 3 effort when climbing.
· Notes: This is the key stage and where you will have to concentrate to maintain your focus. Early ride pacing starts to pay off and athletes receive a mental boost as they start to move through the field.

 

Miles 91-112

· Overall Goals: Athletes should maintain their cycling momentum and continue to eat. Almost all athletes will have lost their appetites and continued nutrition is essential for a strong run.
· Effort Guidelines: Pace should feel steady to moderately hard. There will be fatigue and stiffness associated with the ride. However, these should be manageable.
· Heart Rate Guidelines: Zone 2 effort with periods of Zone 3 effort when climbing.
· Notes: Athletes should maintain their focus on pacing, nutrition and aero position. Race fatigue can cause the mind to wander. Athletes should maintain a task orientation. If you have paced the bike correctly you should feel like you are "racing" the bike while those around you just want to get off. Take these good feeling with you off the bike and into the run course.

 

Ideally, you should get off the bike feeling as if you could have gone 5-10 minutes faster. Keep this fact in mind: it takes quite a bit of sustained effort to go 5-10 minutes faster on the bike.  But walk one mile of the run and you give this all back. It's OK to feel a little cheesy when you get off the bike.  A 42k run is a long time to make up for riding too slowly.

2009-07-21 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Would love your thoughts on my IM bike pace...
ChrisM - 2009-07-20 5:20 PM

I've only done one, so take it for what it's worth, but I think aiming for a specific pace is a mistake.  The biggest thing I learned while training for IM was that "IM pace" was not a mph or a X:XX per 100, but an effort level.  If you aim for a certain mph and it's brutally hot, or hillier than you expect, or you have stomach issues, you are setting yourself up for a potential problem.   I did not have access to mph on my computer at IM because that number was irrelevant to me.  Only thing that mattered was HR (and some don't even use that) and a beeping timex watch to remind me to eat

The best advice I ever heard here for the bike was if you think you are in the "right" gear, downshift one gear easier.  I think that going easier than a bike only day not only is NOT a drawback, it's a pretty good pacing plan


Yeah, what Chris said!

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