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2005-07-11 5:43 PM

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Master
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Marietta, Ga
Subject: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?

Yep, its a "Can-O-Worms" tread.

I was reading though some race reports over the last few weeks and was just curious about Women's only triathlons.  I'm not asking for any reason other than to understand what the purpose would be for such an event.  They seem to remain popular, particularly the Danskin series.  What is the attraction?

Of course, there are no "men's only" tri's since we all enjoy having the ladies around on race day.  The notion of a single-sex event seems kind of outdated or exclusionary, particularly given our present day sensitivity to inclusion and political correctness.



Edited by Motivated 2005-07-11 5:45 PM



2005-07-11 5:49 PM
in reply to: #195297

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2005-07-11 5:54 PM
in reply to: #195299

Master
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Marietta, Ga
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
Lara - 2005-07-11 5:49 PM

but a series like Danskin or Reebok is to introduce women to the sport in a non-threatening environment.. 

Lara, please allow me to play the devil's advocate for a moment.  What in the world is treatening about doing a triathlon with men?  It is an individual sport and is scored based upon gender and age group.  Not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to understand.

2005-07-11 5:56 PM
in reply to: #195297

Pro
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Broomfield, Colorado
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?

Well, women just rock, that's all there is to it!   

My husband gets pissed at the idea too.  he says he's going to start a tri series called "Manskin"

2005-07-11 5:57 PM
in reply to: #195299

Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
Lara - 2005-07-11 3:49 PM

you can always go and voulenteer   we just might give you a cupcake to say thank-you

I actually went to the Danskin website to see if I could sign up as a swim buddy.  I read about madcow doing that a while back and I think that's a very cool thing to do...

nope - seems they only want women to volunteer as well.

2005-07-11 6:03 PM
in reply to: #195297

Elite
3201
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South Florida
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
I was planning Danskin as my first because I figured it would be more supportive and lovey-dovey-ish. Then at the last minute last week I entered a co-ed duathlon and loved it. Everyone was so nice - riding (flying) by me shouting, "way to go first timer", etc. I guess I just figured the men would be more competitive and the females more supportive. I was obviously wrong. I am still looking forward to doing the all-female version in July too though.

Manskin- that is hysterical!!!


2005-07-11 6:05 PM
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2005-07-11 6:07 PM
in reply to: #195303

Master
2447
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Marietta, Ga
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
COgirl - 2005-07-11 5:56 PM

Well, women just rock, that's all there is to it!   

That, Cathy, goes without saying...which is why a "Manskin" would have no staying power (pun intended).  I'm not against the idea of a women's only tri, I just can't understand why they are so popular. 

2005-07-11 6:08 PM
in reply to: #195297

Member
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Bellevue, WA/Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
so instead of a guy showing up with a carbon-fiber tt bike with zipp wheels, if a woman shows up with one it's ok?
2005-07-11 6:09 PM
in reply to: #195297

Veteran
166
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Ventura, California
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
OH BOY!!! This will be fun...

In my opinion, "women only" events are just another example of women wanting their cake and eating it too..."I want to be equal to a man in all other regards but give me an athletic competition where it is just the girls so I do not feel uncomfortable..." JESUS!!!!!

Do you think that NOW or the other liberal fem-nazi groups would ever stand for an athletic competition that was advertised as "FOR MEN ONLY." Never in a million years!!!!
Lets see...a small list of traditionally male sports that have been infiltrated because of threats of sexism...
Men's PGA Tour...has to allow a woman to play if she can qualify

HS and College Football...let her on the team but make sure that she does not get hit too hard or in a particular area because it could be sexual harassment

Hockey...let her on the team but again...not too rough.

We even had a rugby club in college that a girl was allowed to join by administration mandate...she got hurt and sued the school and the guy that tackled her...total BS

That being said (rant over), are women only events a good idea to get new people acclimated to the sport? Maybe...I just hate the double standard that gets set...

One of the BT.com newbies "kneerad" is going to have a hissy with this post and I know I will get e-mails from her...she is one of the ultra-liberal Fem-nazis I was referring to...I know...I was in a realtionship with her for almost 2 years...

that is my 2 cents..
2005-07-11 6:11 PM
in reply to: #195310

Elite
3201
20001000100100
South Florida
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
Lara - 2005-07-11 7:05 PM

  And that demographic may feel more comfortable racing in what seems to be a group of 'peers' vs.   all those really good guys and a few of us BOPers.

I would be really interested to see what % of registered racers are first timers or in their first season.



Exactly. There were so few first timers and true BOPers at my duathlon last week, I was kind of surprised.

I read somwhere (danskin website or Sally Edwards book) that about 1/2 of the ladies at danskin races are 1st timers.


2005-07-11 6:18 PM
in reply to: #195313

Extreme Veteran
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San Jose, CA
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
bballer2tri - 2005-07-11 3:09 PM

OH BOY!!! This will be fun...

In my opinion, "women only" events are just another example of women wanting their cake and eating it too..."I want to be equal to a man in all other regards but give me an athletic competition where it is just the girls so I do not feel uncomfortable..." JESUS!!!!!

Do you think that NOW or the other liberal fem-nazi groups would ever stand for an athletic competition that was advertised as "FOR MEN ONLY." Never in a million years!!!!
Lets see...a small list of traditionally male sports that have been infiltrated because of threats of sexism...
Men's PGA Tour...has to allow a woman to play if she can qualify

HS and College Football...let her on the team but make sure that she does not get hit too hard or in a particular area because it could be sexual harassment

Hockey...let her on the team but again...not too rough.

We even had a rugby club in college that a girl was allowed to join by administration mandate...she got hurt and sued the school and the guy that tackled her...total BS

That being said (rant over), are women only events a good idea to get new people acclimated to the sport? Maybe...I just hate the double standard that gets set...

One of the BT.com newbies "kneerad" is going to have a hissy with this post and I know I will get e-mails from her...she is one of the ultra-liberal Fem-nazis I was referring to...I know...I was in a realtionship with her for almost 2 years...

that is my 2 cents..


/love

I think anything that is excluding others is wrong. Seperate is not equal.

If I have to fight female traffic, then they have to deal with me blowing by them. Just like I have to deal with the damn marching parade past me on the run.

2005-07-11 6:19 PM
in reply to: #195297

Elite Veteran
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Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
I've never done an all female event, but I can understand the appeal for a first-timer. The unknowns are pretty significant for a first tri. Training helps a lot. So does research. But a lot of the research with respect to OW swims starts with something along the lines of, "It was a real punching match," or "I had to swim over the person in front of me," or "If somebody breast strokes, I'm going to teach them a lesson." We've even had these threads on BT. Much of the OW hype is intimidating. I don't know how newbie men feel about it, but as a woman attempting my first (or even my 12th) tri, I'd run away from a potential slug-fest

So I think it is pretty natural for first-time women to migrate to female-only races. They sound very supportive and sometimes that makes the difference between toeing the line or not on race day.

Blame it on OW swim hype. I'm sure there are some races where it is really that bad, but I've never experienced anything as bad as what I've read about on the internet.

Bballer, a little less caffeine. I thought Motivated wanted a discussion, not a rant. And, FWIW, at the swim yesterday, I got stuck behind two Clydes breaststroking. Didn't punch once, but if I could have swum over or between them, I would have. Bet I could have had my way were it a Danskin!

Edited by lynda 2005-07-11 6:27 PM
2005-07-11 6:20 PM
in reply to: #195297

Wife, Mother, Friend.
2457
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South
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?

Danskin is the one race where uber beginners can feel comfortable and not threatened on the swim and bike.  If you've seen one, you understand. 

Reebok IMHO is more competetive than the Danskin and puts on a better show.  My hubby and kids are volunteering this Sunday while I race.  They're excited- well, prepubuscent preteenagers, what do ya expect? 

There was even a Gay "Triathlon" (qu0te marks theirs) this past June at Disney during GayDays at Disney/Orlando area.  You could've entered that, it was opened to straight folks too.  I'm sure there were more males than females in that one.   I have no idea what their three events were

Don't forget Little League, girls are in that one too even though softball is mostly fast pitch these days, and peewee football.  I don't agree with. 

**sigh***  no clue.  Marketing.  I think Oprah may have a hand under the table in this one

2005-07-11 6:38 PM
in reply to: #195297

Champion
5183
5000100252525
Wisconsin
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
sigh. not at the original post's Q, but a the femi nazi thing. I find any comparison to a nazi so totally offensive-- and the idea that an ardent feminist would be comapred to a person who rounded up and gassed people-- yikes.

most women's only events that I have done (2 tris, and a bunch of 5k's) were built around a women's specific charity- breast cancer I think, in all cases, as well as the whole newbie, women-friendly part etc.

Title IX passed in 1972. That means for every woman older than 33, the idea that they, as women/girls, deserved the same time and money and attention re: athletics was not something they grew up with. So it's not that they can't do stuff, or that they are lesser athletes, it's just that MANY women are missing a psychological part of "athletics" that many men and younger women have possibly taken for granted I can;t imagine not growing up doing sports and what that must be like to just start out as an adult. I was taken seriously and cheered on by my parents starting at age 4 when I played Kiddie Kick. My dad was out there all the time validating and bragging about me, I have always felt like a woman, a strong woman, and I never felt I had to "soften" myself or dumb myslef down to be less threatening to men (there was an old thread about exactly that happening still! Imagine how your mom felt in 1940!) .

There is a huge amount of confidence and faith in oneself that athletics provide.But it's a chicken and egg thing, it is hard to join a sport or team if you have no confidence that you can do it or that you even belong there. I am 32. I grew up with little league, soccer, ice hockey, at the local level, school level, collegiate etc. When I try a new sport, I feel pretty sure I'll pick it up and have fun, and if it's hard, so what? I am used to working hard! I know how to fall down. I know how to react if by accident during the course of play, I get jostled. I know that my worth as a person is not affected if I am less "feminine," if my makeup runs, if I get dirty. It was a given to my parents that I would do and play sports. My mom, on the other hand, at 50 years old, decided she wanted to learn to roller blade because it looked fun. her concerns? she would look fat and silly. she would fall and be embarrassed. she wouldn't learn very quickly and she would drag everyone else down. being an "athlete" was not something she ever thought she could do, bc it was not ladylike. She never learned to fall down, she never learned that being dirty doesn;t make the boys run away (maybe it did back then!) And she certainly didn;t know what it would be like to be physical and sweaty around strangers.

I am not sure I am expressing this very well.

But the idea that there are women's only events bc we women don't enjoy men around on race day is shortsighted at best. self absorbed at worst, to think that it has anything to do with men. It has everything to do with a "girl power" mentality that is brand new to many many women. It has EVRYTHING to do with inclusion, these events are saying, "c'mon, women, these fun athletic agressive things DO include you! And here's a way to start out, or to be there to support and encourage another woman" There are often womens; health related expos, women specific equipment and vendors, God Bless Trek for being around at the Danskins, women mechanics too!

I can;t emphasize the Survivor/cancer piece enough. Women who have had breast cancer face many long lasting emotional and psychological scars, many who are lucky enough to be survivors "survive" as a very different person, particularly in a culture where women's value is so associated with her body. It is incredibly amazing, pwerful, uplifting, inspiring, tear inducing to see a breast cancer survivor at these events, and yes, she could still awe inspire etc if men were around, but there is something comforting and safe when men are NOT present, particulrly for women who have, at times, felt repulsive to men because of their cancer.

(In that vein, if prostate or testicular cancer survivors wanted to rally and have a men's event, I'd be all for it. but that doesn;t seem to be men;'s style...)

so yeah. some quick thoughts.
from a feminist who also loves hanging out with, training with, racing with, drinking with, thinking with, working with, men. But I will get REALLY unlady-like if anyone compares me to a Nazi, or thinks that because I love women and feel safe with women that makes me sexist.
peace out bruthas and sistahs.
2005-07-11 6:42 PM
in reply to: #195311

Master
1889
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Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
The woman I swam with yesterday, my lifesaver Vicki, told me to do Danskin next year. She said it is very laid back and super supportive. When she told me to do it we were about to be overswum by over 200 men who were looking like sharks coming to a feeding frenzy in the sprint. I thought it sounded like a great idea.

Some women are intimidated to be in events where men compete. A woman only tri has appeal to them. Some women want to compete only with women. There is also a community of lesbians that compete and would prefer not to have men involved. To these and many, many women for many reasons I cannot fathom and am glad are out there something just for women is supportive and sends a positive messege about women in sports. There are plenty of mens only events in the world, the Tour for instance, I see no reason why we cannot have some women only as well.


2005-07-11 6:47 PM
in reply to: #195297

Buttercup
14334
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Subject: kinder, gentler tri

I like alot of what Possum said. I think some women (i.e. beginner female who might never have competed in sports) are simply intimidated by having hyper-competitive men (or at least they look the part) crawling over an event which is pretty intense in its own right. It's a kinder, gentler tri for the softer, fairer sex.

Personally, I signed up for Reebok because a) the chicks at my swim pool said it was oodles of fun and b) it was the next one on the Tampa Bay calendar after my first tri in May.

As for the co-ed tris, I grew up on a pool deck surrounded by the ideal male swimmer's bodies. Me likey all those hard bodies with their game faces on.

Reebok accepts male volunteers, btw.



Edited by Renee 2005-07-11 6:49 PM
2005-07-11 6:49 PM
in reply to: #195297

Expert
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Orlando, FL
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
Oh heck....I guess I had it all wrong!

When I did a Danskin, my best friend and cycling buddy told me that Danskin was designed so that guys could come and see color-coded and numbered hot chicks in a line-up by age group to look up on the entry list and well......you can guess the rest! Seriously, all my guy friends LOVE the Danskin tri's.

And as for me, well, where else do you hear racers complimenting each other's outfits as they do an out and back run/walk?

And to be more honest/real - I agree that once all us pre-TitleIXers get past competing or caring how we look to a crowd while dressed in spandex, there really won't be much need for a women's only event (opinion only)....but there are still a lot of us out here who didn't even dream of doing anything athletic until we were out of college - it just wasn't done, or not by many women anyway!

interesting thoughts to ponder, for sure!

Annabanana
2005-07-11 6:57 PM
in reply to: #195297

Veteran
166
1002525
Ventura, California
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
rescinds the Fem-nazi classification...it was wrong and not meant to be offensive...just a term that I throw around a lot with my buddies without really thinking...

Insert "Feminista"
2005-07-11 7:01 PM
in reply to: #195297

Pro
4228
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Broomfield, Colorado
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?

It IS great for first time tri'ers who would otherwise NEVER do a tri!  Think of it as a great way to introduce a whole bunch of women to the tri world, or even just exercise!  For example, I had a 55 y/o overweight patient who decided to a Danskin race.......she had never been athletic, rarely worked out, never thought she could do a thing like a tri.....and she DID!  It's a VERY supportive, non-competitive environment.

These races are a GREAT thing to encourage women to meet the goal of finishing a tri, and feeling a huge sense of accomplishment. 

Many newbies feel uncomfortable for their first tri, right?   When women hear about how supportive Danskin and Reebok races are, they feel more at ease with the possibility of doing one.  Many of these people would never do a tri otherwise!  it's actually really cool

2005-07-11 7:03 PM
in reply to: #195297

Champion
19812
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MA
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?

As someone who had come in DFL and very close to DFL in another Tri...I would have loved to do my first Tri in a more supportive environment. I honestly did not have fun at my first Tri...I was to afraid. Danskin...gets many women who walk the run, ride slowly on a comfort bike, but are proud non-the-less that they did a triathlon. At most Tris even those catering to beginners, people are competitive against each other....and themselves. Danskin strives to enjoy the journey and the challenge it to have a 30, 40, 50 or 60 year old women do something that they would never dream they could do. Motivated...imagine your Mom (not to pick on her but as an example) doing a Tri...would she want to be out there on the course with you and others whizzing by her...on the swim (or over her), on the bike...my guess she wouldn't see many people on the run.

Part of the reason I was so happy with how I did on the Tri on Saturday, was I beat lots of men for a change on my bike split which was less than 50 seconds off the middle person's time. But I really compared myself to the other women to feel good about how I did...hey we are more equal in potential abilities than I am against a man.

I also think a women's only event, is a gentler way to introduce women into a new sport. Remember what Max wrote about women Triathletes a week or so ago...we are kinder and more supportive at races to each other. How many many men do you know that will say during the swim...hey let's do this together...we can do it or sorry when they bump you in the swim? I hear it over and over in reading race reports written by women about other women. Men never talk to me at Tris, one practice Tri was an exception, women are always saying something positive.



2005-07-11 7:16 PM
in reply to: #195297

Elite
3223
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Hendersonville
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
Another feminist here. I'm doing Reebok on Sunday because the date was convenient. I'm going to SERIOUSLY miss the male eye candy. This will be my first all female event. I see both sides. Us girls like to do stuff together (like going to the bathroom in packs), but it is pretty silly to yell at the boys when they want their own stuff too. But nobody is saying the guys can't have their own race, they just don't do that kind of thing. Hey, how about a male only Hooters triathlon?? All female volunteers, of course!
Jessica
2005-07-11 7:22 PM
in reply to: #195297

Champion
5183
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Wisconsin
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
feminista is a great word. it means feminist in Spanish.

2005-07-11 7:37 PM
in reply to: #195297

Member
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Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
Go volunteer at a Danskin event - it's completely different than a regular tri.  By taking guys out of the picture, you take a lot of the testosterone driven stupidity out as well.  You don't have people crying to have folks dq'ed because they received help on the swim.  You don't have some dork fighting it out for 98th place in his age group pitch a hissy because someone on the bike course might have maybe, possibly, drafted him.  You'd don't have folks hocking luggies at you on the run course as they set their blazing 11 minute mile pace.

In a Danskin, you never have to worry about finishing last.  You never have to worry about getting dq'ed for some esoteric rule violation.  It's an amazing supportive event and one of the most inspirational activites I've ever helped out with.  To see the cancer survivors finsh the race - to see women would have never -dreamed- they could do a triathlon cross that line in tears and know it's a life changing experience for them - to watch folks slow down on the run course and encourage other folks that are struggling - I think it's well worth the exclusion.   Danksin would never worth with guys paticipating in it.
2005-07-11 7:48 PM
in reply to: #195297

Expert
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Alabama
Subject: RE: What is the point of Women's Only Tri's?
So, whats wrong with it?
I say, any excuse to have a tri then lets do it! Just like a party to me, if there`s time and a place lets have one! I havent competed in many tri`s and am new to the sport, but to my knowledge the men always seem to go in the first waves. It`s hard to be starting in the behind waves all the time, so the all women tri`s gives us a chance to be first out! Also, gives us an idea on where we stand. Men dominate just about every sport there is, and thats wonderful for them, so if there is an oppurtunity for women to enjoy and celebrate triathlons together without feeling dominated or pressured then I say what the hell is wrong with it? I know many many women who feel intimidated by going to their local gym because of men and their attitudes towards women and how they 'should' look, so alot of women are scared to even walk into a gym. Thats why all women gyms usually do a good business, so I can totally see why the all womens tris work as well. It shouldn`t bother anyone, why dont you go along and learn something from watching, volonteer, cheer and enjoy the athletes enjoying the sport that you also love.
Why are there gay parades and no straight parades? Why do I have to go to church to believe in God? Come on guys, get over it!
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