High Running HR and Base Training?

I have had the same problem, and decided to shut the alarm part off and run and what was a decent pace for me and after two weeks of not paying any attention to the heart rate,  My heart rate goes up during the first 5 minutes and then it drops back to a decent price.\

Base training is run walk run walk run walk until you get better when you first start out.

My absolute FIRST question...  80%-90% of WHAT??????

If you run "slow" and it feels "slow" but you HR is at a "max"????  Then it's really not.  A TRUE max HR you will feel...  My guess is you used some arbitrary formula?  220-age?  And your "max" is WAY too low.

80%-90% of MHR using Age and resting HR formula. What would you recommend as a more accurate test?

From a post I wrote in another thread, but may be useful for you:

I borrowing from Joel Friel and QT2 (www.qt2systems.com) here -- Explanation of Heart Rates:

When it comes to heart rate zones, what you want to determine is your lactate threshold heart rate (LTHR), which is also referred to as your anaerobic threshold heart rate.  On a difficulty scale of 1 to 10, LTHR occurs at about a 7 or 8.  A LTHR effort cannot be sustained for a long time.  It's uncomfortable, to say the least. 

Your LTHR will be different for every sport, and that's why you need to do separate tests for running and biking.  The reason is that LTHR is a function of how much muscle is required to overcome resistance, especially gravity.  The LTHR for running is almost always higher than it is for biking (I've found that running LTHRs are about 10 bpm higher than biking LTHRs).  That's  because there is some vertical oscillation with running -- you bounce up and down slightly.  With every step you have to overcome gravity, which requires a great deal of muscle and effort.  In biking, particularly on a flat road, there is no vertical oscillation.

Some coaches will reccomend finding your max heart rate (this is the common 220 minus your age formula), I think LTHR is more useful.  First, its more important to know where you redline (LTHR) than how high you can push your HR and second LTHR is much easier to accurately find.  Most athletes cannot push themselves hard enough to find their true maximum heart rate, an effort level which is incredibly painful.  Usually, what an athlete thinks is a max-HR effort is actually "peak" HR -- the highest the athlete found that day, but not the highest possible.  LTHR is roughly 20 to 30 beats per minute lower than your max. 

There are various ways to determine your LTHR.  Probably the easiest way is to warm up for 20 or so minutes and then run or bike as hard as you can for 30 minutes.  This is best done on a flat course with little or no traffic and no stops -- you can also use a treadmill, track or trainer.  At ten minutes into the test, click the lap button on your heart rate monitor.  Hit the lap button again at the end of the 30 minute effort.  Cool down.  After your cooldown, see what your average heart rate was for the last 20 minutes.  This number is a good approximation of your LTHR. 

Once you've found your LTHR, you can set your training zones.  I generally use three training zones - Recovery, Aerobic Endurance and Endurance Tempo (these correspond to Zone 1, Zone 2 and Zone 3 in a typical HR based training program). 

Zone 1 is Recovery, and should about 74% of your LTHR.  I use this zone for all recovery efforts between key intensity sessions. This takes patience to complete correctly but is critical to being recovered for key workouts. If these workouts are over done, my peripheral system (legs) will be too fatigued to effectively complete key workouts where the goal should be to push my limiters.

My LTHR for running is about 177, so my Zone 1 HR range for running is 121-136 (the range goes from about 70% - 77% of LTHR). 

Zone 2 is aerobic endurance and should be about 83% of LTHR.  This is the primary zone for all long rides and runs. Typically, early in the season during the base building phase all work is spent in this zone.

My LTHR for running is about 177, so my Zone 2 HR range for running is 137-150 (the range goes from about 77% - 85% of LTHR).

Zone 3 is Tempo and should be about 90% of LTHR.  This zone is generally used at the end of long rides and runs following the base phase (typically 8-12 weeks). As the race season draws closer, the amount of time spent in this zone should increase.

My LTHR for running is about 177, so my Zone 2 HR range for running is 151-161 (the range goes from about 85% - 91% of LTHR).

As a final thought, your HR zones don't change, your pace at the zone just gets faster as you gain fitness.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions.

That could very well be your problem.  It could be SERIOUSLY underestimating you "max"...  In fact, your "max" in not even needed to be found.

The Above post says it pretty well, but may be a bit confusing.  You want to find your Lactate Threashold, or "LT".  That would be the maximum average HR you can get for the LAST 20 minutes of a 30 minute all out effort.  I'm not saying it doesn't HURT to find it!  But it's not you max HR.  You will have a different LT HR for running and biking (and swimming, which I ignore, since there is no reall good way to track HR in the pool)

Using myself as an example.  My absolute MAX HR is about 201.  My running LT HR is 183ish.  My biking LT HR is 173.

So based on THAT...  My endurance HR for running (using the free calculators on BT) is about 158... An EASY effort is under 150.

Now let's take the 220-age for "max HR"...  for me.  220-42 = 178..  That's WAY off from the measured 201!  Plus, based on my LT tests.  I have PROVEN I can maintain 183 for up to 30 minutes!

So if I take 80%-90% of the 178?  That puts me at 142-160.  Which I have also said.  Is an EASY pace or endurance HR.  Not anywhere CLOSE to my interval effort like you wanted to do.

Clear as mud?


In a nutshell.  Avoid any "generic" formulas.  The most used method seems to be the LT method.  It requires some easy to do field tests (but still painful!) and the free calculator/spreadsheet.  And THAT will get you the proper HR zones to train in.

Thanks Kido and kaburns. I knew the formulas were not perfect but did not imagine they could be that far off. I know my LTHR for cycling and will try to find mine for running.

Rule of thumb is running is about 10-12 bpm higher...  Since my runs are more controled.  I will do my run LT test several times a year then subtract 10 to get my biking LTHR.  However, my assumption of 10 bpm lower seems to pan out during my bike time trials, etc...

I found that if you are close with your LTHR, when you plug it into the calculator, it basically spits out the same zones plus or minus 1 bpm even if you are 3-4 bpm off on your LT test/assumption.  Since it's hard to nail any specific HR, I just shoot for the middle of a zone...  so being 1-2 bpm off?  Doesn't matter to me since the entire zone is 10bpm wide.

The only thing I can say is REALLY try to put it all out there in your tests.  It's a painfull 30 minutes, but if you cheat there, you will be cheating yourself on all of your training based on those numbers.

Here is another article that does a great job of explaining the misconceptions and testing protocol.

http://www.d3multisport.com/blog/index.php/220-age-misconceptions-and-determining-y-1

Edited by Kido 2011-01-19 1:40 PM

Also realize when people start REALLY training according to HR they often think they're going way too slow.  In reality, they were training too hard before.