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No death penalty drug, no death penalty?
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 2011-01-24 12:29 PM |
Champion  16151     Checkin' out the podium girls |  Subject: No death penalty drug, no death penalty?Interesting story about the discontinuation of the anesthetic used in lethal injection: So, basically, the desire for off-shore production is stronger than the potential off label use liability and manufacturing it domestically. From www.fiercepharma.com: Usually, politics and pharmaceuticals intersect on Capitol Hill. But now, U.S. drugmaker Hospira will stop producing one of its meds for political reasons--it's used by state governments to execute prisoners by lethal injection. That's not the primary use of sodium thiopental. It's an anesthetic. But because capital punishment states use it has thrown a big wrench into Hospira's plans to manufacture it. The company wanted to shift production of the drug--which has been scarce for about a year because of manufacturing problems--to a facility in Italy. But the Italian government won't allow it unless the company can guarantee that the product won't be used to execute prisoners. And that's not something Hospira can do, given that the drug is distributed through wholesalers that the drugmaker can't control. So, Hospira will give up on the drug altogether. "This is not how the drug is intended to be used," spokeswoman Tareta Adams told Reuters. "We've decided we're no longer going to work to bring the drug back." Edited by pitt83 2011-01-24 12:31 PM |
| 2011-01-24 12:44 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
Champion 14571  the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? bring back firing squad? complete with bandana tied to cover eyes and cigarette hanging out of your mouth... |
| 2011-01-24 12:44 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? |
| 2011-01-24 12:52 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? It seems there are many states that have alternatives. Electrocution Alabama Arkansas Florida Illinois Kentucky Nebraska Oklahoma South Carolina Tennessee Virginia Lethal Gas Arizona California Missouri Wyoming Firing Squad Idaho Oklahoma Utah Hanging Delaware New Hampshire Washington |
| 2011-01-24 12:55 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? Propofol. |
| 2011-01-24 12:56 PM in reply to: #3318414 |
Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? DanielG - 2011-01-24 1:52 PM It seems there are many states that have alternatives. Electrocution Alabama Arkansas Florida Illinois Kentucky Nebraska Oklahoma South Carolina Tennessee Virginia Lethal Gas Arizona California Missouri Wyoming Firing Squad Idaho Oklahoma Utah Hanging Delaware New Hampshire Washington I doubt all of them are actively executing prisoners either. I specifically note the absence of texas on that list and they DO actively engage in executions, not just sentencing and holding on death row. It's interesting that Hospira has made this decision based seemingly on the desire to move production to Italy and the barriers to that move. Or it's a humanitarian one cloaked in that logic. |
| 2011-01-24 12:57 PM in reply to: #3318422 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? DerekL - 2011-01-25 1:55 AM Propofol. No way. Somebody might commit a colonoscopy with that stuff. |
 2011-01-24 12:58 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
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| 2011-01-24 1:00 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Elite 4504 Columbus, Ohio | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? There is more than one drug used... Although this directly impacts Ohio and Washington as they have limited lethal injections to this one drug. Mostly the change was made to decrease costs but there is nothing stopping them from going back Other states generally use 3-drug combinations of sodium pentothal, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride. Ohio did as well before 2009. |
| 2011-01-24 1:03 PM in reply to: #3318423 |
| Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? pitt83 - 2011-01-24 1:56 PM I doubt all of them are actively executing prisoners either. I specifically note the absence of texas on that list and they DO actively engage in executions, not just sentencing and holding on death row. Did you happen to notice I did not post states that use lethal injection, only "other than..." ? |
| 2011-01-24 1:03 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? I gotta go Google this stuff, but I don't think Abbott Labs makes sodium pentothal anymore either. But it also has veterinary uses ... wonder who might be making it on that end ... |
| 2011-01-24 1:05 PM in reply to: #3318441 |
| Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? JChristoff - 2011-01-24 2:00 PM There is more than one drug used... Although this directly impacts Ohio and Washington as they have limited lethal injections to this one drug. Mostly the change was made to decrease costs but there is nothing stopping them from going back Other states generally use 3-drug combinations of sodium pentothal, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride. Ohio did as well before 2009. Sodium pentothal is what is being discontinued from production. Someone will need to make the decision about which anesthetic is effective to replace it. The other two stop your heart and muscle activity. |
| 2011-01-24 1:06 PM in reply to: #3318450 |
| Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? DanielG - 2011-01-24 2:03 PM pitt83 - 2011-01-24 1:56 PM I doubt all of them are actively executing prisoners either. I specifically note the absence of texas on that list and they DO actively engage in executions, not just sentencing and holding on death row. Did you happen to notice I did not post states that use lethal injection, only "other than..." ? Right, I got that. What I meant is, when Texas wants to execute it's next prisoner, a decision will need to be made as to HOW to do it? |
| 2011-01-24 1:12 PM in reply to: #3318463 |
| Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? pitt83 - 2011-01-24 2:06 PM DanielG - 2011-01-24 2:03 PM pitt83 - 2011-01-24 1:56 PM I doubt all of them are actively executing prisoners either. I specifically note the absence of texas on that list and they DO actively engage in executions, not just sentencing and holding on death row. Did you happen to notice I did not post states that use lethal injection, only "other than..." ? Right, I got that. What I meant is, when Texas wants to execute it's next prisoner, a decision will need to be made as to HOW to do it? Ahhh. Got it  Unless they don't use that particular drug. Dunno if they do or not. |
| 2011-01-24 1:20 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? I am troubled by the death penalty for a lot of reasons (not all of them lefty-bleeding-heart-liberal reasons - part of me thinks getting to die is a lot less punitive than spending 40-50 years in 100 square feet of cell, never being allowed to leave). However, there are other drugs that cen be used as well to execute someone. Including the use of phenobarbital, that is used to euthanize animals. Many years ago, my former boss at the dog pound committed suicide using the drugs we used to euthanize the dogs. And I know when I had to have Nikki euthanized, while it was emotionally very tough for me, she had a very quiet and peaceful passing. |
| 2011-01-24 1:24 PM in reply to: #3318486 |
| Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? DanielG - 2011-01-24 11:12 AM pitt83 - 2011-01-24 2:06 PM Ahhh. Got it DanielG - 2011-01-24 2:03 PM Right, I got that. What I meant is, when Texas wants to execute it's next prisoner, a decision will need to be made as to HOW to do it? pitt83 - 2011-01-24 1:56 PM I doubt all of them are actively executing prisoners either. I specifically note the absence of texas on that list and they DO actively engage in executions, not just sentencing and holding on death row. Did you happen to notice I did not post states that use lethal injection, only "other than..." ? Unless they don't use that particular drug. Dunno if they do or not. I think I read in an article last week that Texas has its own drug system that does not use this particular Sedative so they can still actively excute. In fact I think they recently had to release information on their manufacturer (which they had been keeping blinded to prevent any issues or backlast against said manufacturer) by a court order. And honestly, do you think there is anything that would stop Texas from executing those who have been legally tried, convicted, and appealed, if they want to. They could probably pass a state amendment/law in a month if they had to choose some new way. |
| 2011-01-24 1:47 PM in reply to: #3318423 |
| Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? pitt83 - 2011-01-23 1:56 PM It's interesting that Hospira has made this decision based seemingly on the desire to move production to Italy and the barriers to that move. Or it's a humanitarian one cloaked in that logic. They are a publicly-traded company. If they want to make a humanitarian gesture, they need to be able to justify to the stockholders a business case to support it. Otherwise, they are "obligated" (via Ford v. Dodge) to do what they can to maximize value to the shareholders. |
| 2011-01-24 2:26 PM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. As heinous as a crime may be, I would have a problem personally flipping a switch or pulling a trigger to end another human life. If I'm not willing to be an executioner, then I think it is morally hypocritical to expect someone else to do the dirty work. But I have absolutely no problem with a 6' x 9' cell with no windows. No contact with the outside world. No TV, Internet, magazines or newspapers. No basketball or weight room. Just a Bible or Koran (or whatever) to read for the rest of their natural life for spiritual guidance. One brief shower a week seems like it would be enough and very basic food and water for sustinence. Maybe give them a 6' length of rope in case they decide they want to check out early. That being said, I would have no problem using deadly force to defend my home or family, particularly if faced with social anarchy such as in New Orleans post Katrina. Mark
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| 2011-01-24 2:37 PM in reply to: #3318709 |
| Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? RedCorvette - 2011-01-24 12:26 PM I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. As heinous as a crime may be, I would have a problem personally flipping a switch or pulling a trigger to end another human life. If I'm not willing to be an executioner, then I think it is morally hypocritical to expect someone else to do the dirty work. But I have absolutely no problem with a 6' x 9' cell with no windows. No contact with the outside world. No TV, Internet, magazines or newspapers. No basketball or weight room. Just a Bible or Koran (or whatever) to read for the rest of their natural life for spiritual guidance. One brief shower a week seems like it would be enough and very basic food and water for sustinence. Maybe give them a 6' length of rope in case they decide they want to check out early. That being said, I would have no problem using deadly force to defend my home or family, particularly if faced with social anarchy such as in New Orleans post Katrina. Mark
If that is what someone would get in the US for a serious crime instead of a death penalty and numerous appeals I would be completely for it. However it would never fly in the face of civil liberties groups who would argue that is "cruel and unusual punishment" to deny them certain rights. The more I look at our criminal justice system the more I think we have leaned to far into the right of the convicted and not into the rights of the victim/victims family. |
| 2011-01-24 2:39 PM in reply to: #3318387 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? meherczeg - 2011-01-24 12:44 PM bring back firing squad? complete with bandana tied to cover eyes and cigarette hanging out of your mouth... Why Pitt83's mouth??  |
| 2011-01-25 7:50 AM in reply to: #3318351 |
| Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? I would prefer all violent criminals just end up dead at the scene of the crime. |
| 2011-01-25 8:29 AM in reply to: #3318752 |
| Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? bel83 - 2011-01-24 3:37 PM RedCorvette - 2011-01-24 12:26 PM I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. As heinous as a crime may be, I would have a problem personally flipping a switch or pulling a trigger to end another human life. If I'm not willing to be an executioner, then I think it is morally hypocritical to expect someone else to do the dirty work. But I have absolutely no problem with a 6' x 9' cell with no windows. No contact with the outside world. No TV, Internet, magazines or newspapers. No basketball or weight room. Just a Bible or Koran (or whatever) to read for the rest of their natural life for spiritual guidance. One brief shower a week seems like it would be enough and very basic food and water for sustinence. Maybe give them a 6' length of rope in case they decide they want to check out early. That being said, I would have no problem using deadly force to defend my home or family, particularly if faced with social anarchy such as in New Orleans post Katrina. Mark
If that is what someone would get in the US for a serious crime instead of a death penalty and numerous appeals I would be completely for it. However it would never fly in the face of civil liberties groups who would argue that is "cruel and unusual punishment" to deny them certain rights. The more I look at our criminal justice system the more I think we have leaned to far into the right of the convicted and not into the rights of the victim/victims family. I agree. I think the whole concept of "cruel and unusual punishment" is a crock. I actually like the way they used to do it in medieval times when they just dug a deep hole, threw the condemned person in and left them there until they were dead. Death would be from "natural causes". Mark
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| 2011-01-25 8:30 AM in reply to: #3320005 |
| Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? RedCorvette - 2011-01-25 9:29 AM I think the whole concept of "cruel and unusual punishment" is a crock. Some people think the 2A is a crock. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. |
| 2011-01-25 9:32 AM in reply to: #3318709 |
| Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? RedCorvette - 2011-01-24 3:26 PM I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. As heinous as a crime may be, I would have a problem personally flipping a switch or pulling a trigger to end another human life. If I'm not willing to be an executioner, then I think it is morally hypocritical to expect someone else to do the dirty work. But I have absolutely no problem with a 6' x 9' cell with no windows. No contact with the outside world. No TV, Internet, magazines or newspapers. No basketball or weight room. Just a Bible or Koran (or whatever) to read for the rest of their natural life for spiritual guidance. One brief shower a week seems like it would be enough and very basic food and water for sustinence. Maybe give them a 6' length of rope in case they decide they want to check out early. I'd be on the same page as you and would support this 100%... ...except what you describe is considered "cruel and unusual punishment" (major rolleyes) by the ACLU and their ilk and would never fly. Right now I do not see prison as being enough of a deterrent. And the death penalty does not have to cost so much. These is no reason why it needs to take 20+ years to go through he appeals process.. |
| 2011-01-25 9:40 AM in reply to: #3320009 |
| Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: No death penalty drug, no death penalty? Goosedog - 2011-01-25 9:30 AM RedCorvette - 2011-01-25 9:29 AM I think the whole concept of "cruel and unusual punishment" is a crock. Some people think the 2A is a crock. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We're talking about condemned convicted felons here, not the man on the street. I don't condone torture, and I don't necessarily think that the death penalty is a deterrent, but if a condemned prisoner feels some pain during his execution, then too bad. I'd be willing to bet that their innocent victims didn't die painlessly either. Mark |
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