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Drafting drafting drafting
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I never see illegal drafting/when I do it's always penalised1 Votes - [1.12%]
I occasionally see illegal drafting and it's usually punished6 Votes - [6.74%]
I often see illegal drafting and it often goes unpunished69 Votes - [77.53%]
Illegal drafting is the norm and it hardly ever gets punished0 Votes - [0%]
My cat's breath smells like cat food13 Votes - [14.61%]

2011-03-19 11:48 PM

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Veteran
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Auckland, NZ
Subject: Drafting drafting drafting

I wanted to share/vent/discuss drafting in non-drafting tris. My first tri, last December, was on a relatively short bike course (5km in each direction along a closed road with a U turn at either end). With a lot of bikes on such a short course, it seemed unavoidable that a lot of groups formed, and there was a decent amount of drafting going on. I'll admit that I participated, because everyone was doing it. It seemed to be accepted and no penalties were dished out (as far as I can tell, 90% of the field in both the sprint and Oly would've been penalised).

Today I raced in another sprint, part of the same series (called the "People's Triathlon Series") but at a different location. This time I decided that regardless of what everyone else was doing, I wasn't going to partake in any drafting. I thought it would be better because the course is a longer 10km out and back, but no - the drafting was still rampant in all categories and again - no penalties were given.

I had a great race, bike split was my fastest yet (despite a reasonably undulating course on a bloody rough surface), but I was reasonably annoyed that whenever I overtook someone they would wheel-suck for a while before eventually dropping, and I basically towed a line of about 3 or 4 guys most of the way back (their energy-saving obviously did them no good because I still beat them all on the run).

So - I've added a poll, curious to see how common this is in races you lot do, particularly smaller ones (FYI there were 130 entrants in the men's sprint of this one)



2011-03-20 12:02 AM
in reply to: #3405173


13

Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
Drafting seems to be a bit regional.  Most of my races are in the Northwest, and there is very little illegal drafts.  I raced the Orlando 70.3 in 2010, however, and was passed by an all out peleton of no fewer than 15 riders.  Never saw them in the penalty box either, although I did get one to trun around as I yelled " cheating bastards!!" as they went by.
2011-03-20 7:53 AM
in reply to: #3405173

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Champion
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Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
I don't have a cat
2011-03-20 9:38 AM
in reply to: #3405173

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Master
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Boynton Beach, FL
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

It happens and once in a while about 5% of the offenders get a 2:00 penalty which is well worth the time/energy savings over a longer course.  It really used to bother me, but the negative thoughts going through my head was throwing off my overall mental game and was not good for MY race.   now I just laugh and keep smiling.  Consequently my race goes by in better spirits, I still can only control the controlable and hopefully karma does exist out there for those who intentionally draft and running injuries were created for these folks in the off-season.   Wait, I didn't mean that  

 

 

 

2011-03-20 9:52 AM
in reply to: #3405173

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Alabama
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

I was doing an Oly a few years ago and was struggling uphill into a pretty strong wind on a bridge.  A line of about 4 or 5 bikes blew right by me wheel to wheel.  I didn't think anything about it as people pass me all the time - especially on hills and into the wind.  When the draft pack blew by, another biker yelled at them "Hey, why don't ya'll just use a f'ing rope!!"  It took me a moment to figure out what he was talking about.  I thought that was a great line to use.

But frankly, I'm not in it to compete, I'm there for the challange and so don't really care what other people do.  Those people are going to finish ahead of me REGARDLESS!  I seldem if ever see BOPers drafting. 

2011-03-20 7:16 PM
in reply to: #3405173

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Auckland, NZ
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

Thanks for the comments, it's interesting to see that this is more widespread than I initially thought (I did a bit of googling and found discussions about it going back to the mid 90s). I agree with some of the sentiments expressed above - I didn't really let it bother me during the ride (I find it hard to give anything much thought other than how I'm feeling during a race), but in hindsight I was a bit annoyed that it didn't allow a decent comparison to other competitors to see how I stack up.

At the moment I'm MOP but I would like to think I could be challenging for AG placings with a couple of years of training, at which point I might start to get a bit more bothered about competing against unethical riding



2011-03-20 7:29 PM
in reply to: #3405173

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Elite
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Miami
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

miami 70.3 had plenty of drafting.  soemthing you just have to learn to put up with.  it sucks.

i did an olympic at end of season last year and had 4 riders drafting off me.  i turned around several times asking to drop off.  none did, only frustrated me.  point being race your race. 

usually in shorter races i don't find this happens as often.  especially when courses are loops.

i will be racing orlando 70.3 and i know if will be a draft fest.

2011-03-20 9:52 PM
in reply to: #3405173

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Springfield, OH
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

I wonder how it feels to finish a triathlon knowing you cheated so blatantly?  Doesn't that sort of take some of the accomplishment away if you took it easy on the bike by drafting?

To hell with whatever anyone else is doing, I'm out there racing for one person.  Me.  I don't even notice if people are drafting or not, I'm too focused on what I am doing.

Let them go.  Unless you're racing for the podium and one of the bastards beats you to it.  Then beat them over the head with a blunt object.

2011-03-20 10:33 PM
in reply to: #3405173

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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
It's just the way drafting is regarded in your training group.  Honestly, if I never went on slowtwitch or BT, I would probably draft without any qualms.  When I asked about drafting before my 1st tri upon seeing the top most violated rules, many of the responses in my weekly ocean swim group were along the lines of "don't worry too much about it" or "you won't get caught", rather than the typical forum theme of "It's a rule. Don't break it. You're ruining the sport. etc.".  
2011-03-20 10:36 PM
in reply to: #3405173


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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
i saw a lot of drafting in austin 70.3, but when ppl heard a motorcycle coming they split like cock-roaches, funny to watch.  i guess if ppl form a line behind you and refuse to drop back, start dropping bottles behind you, that ought to scare em off.
2011-03-20 10:54 PM
in reply to: #3406074

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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
apicek - 2011-03-20 7:52 PM

To hell with whatever anyone else is doing, I'm out there racing for one person.  Me.  I don't even notice if people are drafting or not, I'm too focused on what I am doing.

This. 



2011-03-21 8:01 AM
in reply to: #3406074

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Regular
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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
apicek - 2011-03-20 10:52 PM

I wonder how it feels to finish a triathlon knowing you cheated so blatantly?  Doesn't that sort of take some of the accomplishment away if you took it easy on the bike by drafting?

To hell with whatever anyone else is doing, I'm out there racing for one person.  Me.  I don't even notice if people are drafting or not, I'm too focused on what I am doing.

Let them go.  Unless you're racing for the podium and one of the bastards beats you to it.  Then beat them over the head with a blunt object.

^THIS

Winning a triathlon isn't going to make you rich or help you pick up chicks, so why cheat?

2011-03-21 8:18 AM
in reply to: #3406074

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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
apicek - 2011-03-20 10:52 PM

I wonder how it feels to finish a triathlon knowing you cheated so blatantly?  Doesn't that sort of take some of the accomplishment away if you took it easy on the bike by drafting?

To hell with whatever anyone else is doing, I'm out there racing for one person.  Me.  I don't even notice if people are drafting or not, I'm too focused on what I am doing.

Let them go.  Unless you're racing for the podium and one of the bastards beats you to it.  Then beat them over the head with a blunt object.

 

It's not that simple, alas.  Drafting can, and does, affect everybody, in several ways.  A drafting pack can screw with your bike leg in ways that individuals could not.  Drafters can give you a false sense of how well (or poorly) you did in the race.  And more generally, cheating in any form makes the race worse for everybody.

Finally -- and I don't mean this comment in disrespect to you, as I'm sure your intention was anything but to encourage drafting -- saying that drafting doesn't affect anyone apart from the drafters and the podium-seekers will only serve to encourage drafting, as it potentially provides would-be drafters with a perverted sense of justification ("I'm not really hurting anybody...").

We need to call it what it is:  breaking the rules.  In many cases it is cheating; sometimes it is inadvertent.  Race directors and athletes each bear some responsibility.

2011-03-21 8:38 AM
in reply to: #3405173

Regular
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Burlington Ontario
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

1. ASK them to drop off

2. TELL them to drop off

3. drop a gear, slam your brakes and sprint

4. go back later to their yard sale to pick up some cheap parts

2011-03-21 9:02 AM
in reply to: #3406339

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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
Ghostfacekiller - 2011-03-21 9:01 AM 

Winning a triathlon isn't going to make you rich or help you pick up chicks, so why cheat?



Damn it!  So why am I doing all this training again?!?

  -Andy 
2011-03-21 9:22 AM
in reply to: #3406455

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Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

some people dope

some people draft

and

some people like me don't really care what other people is doing...

 

I race my race and I go home happy about myself...



2011-03-21 9:32 AM
in reply to: #3405173

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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
I'm a pretty black and white guy, particularly as I get older (with increasing curmudgeonly tendencies).  I was always taught that rules were rules. 

It doesn't keep me up at night, but I don't like it when I see groups of riders drafting in a race.  What is particularly bothersome is that it's usually not naive beginners in the BOP, but elite wannabees riding towards the front; guys who know the rules and chose not to abide by them.  I think it speaks volumes about their (lack of) personal honesty and integrity.

At most of the local races I do, there's usually no more than a couple of officials on motorcycles to monitor the entire course and it is only natural that they are going to focus on the leaders.  That leaves a lot of room for people to get away with stuff unobserved.  The more they get away with it, the more the behavior is reinforced. 

With big fields on short courses, crowding can definitely be a problem, especially from a safety standpoint, but people can still ride without unfairly taking advantage of the draft.

All you can do is ride your own race.  I'm at the BOP and drafters have never affected how I have finished a race, but at least I can sleep well knowing that I did the best I could while staying within the rules.

Mark
2011-03-21 10:07 AM
in reply to: #3405918

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2011-03-21 10:12 AM
in reply to: #3405173

Master
2009
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Charlotte, NC
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
Just be like me and so slow that no one in their right mind would try and draft behind me!!!
2011-03-21 10:16 AM
in reply to: #3405173

Master
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Bedford, MA
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
Drafting happens, but I don't worry about it because most people can't hang on my tail even if they are drafting! Laughing
2011-03-21 10:19 AM
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2011-03-21 10:35 AM
in reply to: #3406625

Master
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Bellevue, WA
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
Fred Doucette - 2011-03-21 8:07 AM

Yup, most flatter M-dots have drafting at them. All IMs have a lot of it (M-dot).

They are over-crowded courses that simply don't have enough space for a 7-10m draft zone. The organizers know it and the racers know it.

IMLP last year had 2,700 racers. On the swim between 1 hour and 1 hour and 20 minute about half the entrants come out. That's 20 minutes to allow for 1,200-1,400 people. 20min=1200 sec. That's about 1sec a rider. Just impossible not to get some drafting with that.

Drafting is drafting. It's not right, but literally anybody could have been flagged for it at IMLP last year in the first hour of the bike.

I don't think it's worth getting so worked up about it. The solution for the popular races would be to let fewer entrants in, which would be highly unpopular with the participants and the race organizers.

There is 'blatant' drafting that I have seen where people work intentionally in groups and that sucks. I don't have an easy solution to it aside from more course marshals, more penalties etc.

I don't think "drafting is drafting".  There's a difference between a crowded course and people six or ten feet apart instead of 22-25 feet, and blatant drafting in pacelines and pelotons.

In the "crowded course" case there's not much you can do other than try to follow the spirit of "no drafting" and do the best you can.  That's what I see from most people at the M-dot races I've done.

In the "blatant drafting" case, each participant everyone knows what they're doing is breaking the letter and the spirit of "no drafting", and they just don't care.

At IMCOZ I saw a paceline of pros pass me, two feet apart in aero position, with the trailing guy the "lookout" for the course marshals, judging from his constant over-the-shoulder looks.  Now that was blatant drafting.

I didn't see blatant drafting at the IMAZs I've done (06, 07, 08) but it was very crowded at various places on the course.

At IMC (08, 09) I've seen a few small pelotons.  Their behavior is verging on blatant drafting.  

At IMCOZ 2009 I saw a paceline of pros pass me, two feet apart in aero position, with the trailing guy acting as "lookout" for the course marshals, judging from his constant over-the-shoulder looks. Now that was blatant drafting.

At IMLP 2010 it was like IMAZ - no real blatant drafting but a lot of crowded places.

I'll add that I've seen more than a few age-groupers who think drafting rules are "really for somebody else not me", usually because they're slow or "not trying to win". 

At HIM Lake Stevens in 2008 I had a marshal pull up next to me and the guy says "What you're doing is drafting".  I was totally surprised until I realized he was talking to the guy hanging right off my wheel.  I heard him say something like "I'm just part of a relay, I'm not trying to win or anything" and proceeded to argue with the penalty.

At IMAZ one year I heard an after-race discussion between some friends, and one was about his drafting penalty saying things like "it's not like I'm a pro, what does it matter?"

2011-03-21 10:53 AM
in reply to: #3405173

Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

i think the drafting gets annoying when you are gonig for podium.  not even in a longer race but shorter races, like olympic etc.

2011-03-21 11:00 AM
in reply to: #3405173

Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting
I like seeing people draft....it's give me an excuse why I'm BOP.  ;-)  j/k
2011-03-21 11:00 AM
in reply to: #3406652

Pro
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Parker, CO
Subject: RE: Drafting drafting drafting

natethomas2000 - 2011-03-21 9:16 AM Drafting happens, but I don't worry about it because most people can't hang on my tail even if they are drafting! Laughing

Really?  well if people can't hang on your wheel than most likely you are finishing in a top spot.  So you wouldn't be bothered with someone riding your wheel for 10-miles only to toast you on the run?  Taking your hardware?

I hate blatent drafting!  It's cheating and also can be dangerous if the guy does not know what he's doing.  I have no problem giving a big ol snot rocket to a drafter!

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