General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track? Rss Feed  
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2011-03-24 10:27 AM

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Subject: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
After years of just running and not really focusing on my times, I've finally decided to start doing speed work and start running on the track.  Excuse me for all my ignorance when it comes to this subject but I have some general questions. First, where do you actually need to start and end on the track for the distance to equal 1 mile.  I've read that 4 laps do not equal a mile.  Second question, what kind of track shoes are you all running in? I'm looking to get some shoes only for the track and have no idea where to start.  Thanks.


2011-03-24 10:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

Assuming it is a 400m track, four times around is just shy of a mile (a tick over 9m shy).  Complications arise depending on which lane you run in (outer lanes are longer, of course).  I just call 4 times around a mile and leave it at that.  Close enough.

Shoes:  I just wear my regular running shoes (Saucony Kinvara).  Back when I had two pairs (a traditional pair and flats), I wore the flats on the track.

You didn't ask this but:  be careful starting with speedwork on the track.  It is easy to underestimate the toll it takes on your body.

2011-03-24 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

Why do you want shoes just for the track?  Are you racing on the track?

On a standard 400m track, running around a track 4 times (inside lane) is very close to a mile--just under 10m short.  There's no real reason to worry about it in most cases, but you can shift to the second lane for one lap to get even closer.

How much do you run currently?  Just guessing based on your questions, I'd likely caution you about doing much speedwork.

2011-03-24 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

I use my regular running shoes for the track workouts as well. Yes 4 laps are about a mile. I don't think you need to worry about getting exactly a mile in. That is easy for me to say because coming from Germany, it's all metric anyway. So I run 200-1000 meters, 1/2 a lap to 2 1/2 laps. That's just me.

Good luck and God speed !!!

Michael.

2011-03-24 11:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
you most likely will be sore the next few times you do speedwork. just like after a race. it's tough on the body, but does make you mentally and physically better.  I would not to speedwork more than once a week, it's just too tough on the body. 
2011-03-24 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

Thanks for the responses.  I've been running around 50-100 miles per week for about a year now but just always ran the speed I felt my body could handle for that given session/day.  I've also done a lot of ultra running, and run on a wide variety of surfaces.  Like I said I just started to really focus on speed work recently and have already noticed some big improvements on my 5 mile and  10k times(two distances I never really focused on speed and are short distances to me).  I have a track by my house and figure doing some mile repeats a couple times of week wouldn't hurt, thus why I'm looking for some spikes.     

Also some of my PR if that helps: 5 mile-29:40   10k-36:01   13.1- 1:23:43   marathon- 2:59:00  I've never times myself for anything under 5 miles

 



Edited by chicagosurfer 2011-03-24 11:12 AM


2011-03-24 11:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
there is nothing in your logs so I have no idea what type of mileage you are running.  assuming that you have a good base as others have said...ease into it.  I run track in my regular shoes or my vibrams.  I don't really see a need to buy special shoes for a track when you're a distance runner.  Something to keep inmind with running track/intervals...the key to seeing a benefit is consistency with doing the speed work over several weeks. 
2011-03-24 12:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
chicagosurfer - 2011-03-24 12:06 PM

Thanks for the responses.  I've been running around 50-100 miles per week for about a year now but just always ran the speed I felt my body could handle for that given session/day.  I've also done a lot of ultra running, and run on a wide variety of surfaces.  Like I said I just started to really focus on speed work recently and have already noticed some big improvements on my 5 mile and  10k times(two distances I never really focused on speed and are short distances to me).  I have a track by my house and figure doing some mile repeats a couple times of week wouldn't hurt, thus why I'm looking for some spikes.     

Also some of my PR if that helps: 5 mile-29:40   10k-36:01   13.1- 1:23:43   marathon- 2:59:00  I've never times myself for anything under 5 miles

Ha ha!  Ok, you got me.  I never would have guessed you ran that much from your questions.

Do you run any tempo--something approximating your 10k or half-marathon pace--during your week?  If not, I would start doing that as part of your typical week.  Actually, I would encourage you to read these threads.  You stand to gain a lot but just putting together more of a plan (including some well-placed track work).  You sound like you've established a very solid foundation.

Edit:  There's still no real need for spikes.  You can run on the track in your regular running shoes just fine.  You can get some if you like but, personally at least, I wouldn't bother unless I were planning to race on the track.



Edited by JohnnyKay 2011-03-24 12:59 PM
2011-03-24 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

Haven't run on a track in ages (focusing on long-distance stuff right now), but when I did I wore my racing flats.  However, I already owned them (hardcore 5K racer).  I wouldn't buy any new shoes for the track.

As has been mentioned, 4 laps is 9 meters short of a mile. 1600s (4 laps) is close enough, although some tracks do have a marker for the mile start.

Also, as been mentioned, start slow.  My first time doing 400s (1 lap) I only did two and STILL felt it the next day.

2011-03-24 1:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
JohnnyKay - 2011-03-24 12:55 PM
chicagosurfer - 2011-03-24 12:06 PM

Thanks for the responses.  I've been running around 50-100 miles per week for about a year now but just always ran the speed I felt my body could handle for that given session/day.  I've also done a lot of ultra running, and run on a wide variety of surfaces.  Like I said I just started to really focus on speed work recently and have already noticed some big improvements on my 5 mile and  10k times(two distances I never really focused on speed and are short distances to me).  I have a track by my house and figure doing some mile repeats a couple times of week wouldn't hurt, thus why I'm looking for some spikes.     

Also some of my PR if that helps: 5 mile-29:40   10k-36:01   13.1- 1:23:43   marathon- 2:59:00  I've never times myself for anything under 5 miles

Ha ha!  Ok, you got me.  I never would have guessed you ran that much from your questions.

Do you run any tempo--something approximating your 10k or half-marathon pace--during your week?  If not, I would start doing that as part of your typical week.  Actually, I would encourage you to read these threads.  You stand to gain a lot but just putting together more of a plan (including some well-placed track work).  You sound like you've established a very solid foundation.

Edit:  There's still no real need for spikes.  You can run on the track in your regular running shoes just fine.  You can get some if you like but, personally at least, I wouldn't bother unless I were planning to race on the track.

 

Ya I know these are very beginner based questions but like I said I never had a running coach, ran for a club/team, or done any 'serious' running on a track. My tempo runs that are at 10k to half marathon pace are usually runs where I am running that exact distance. I don't run anything less than 5 miles in a given running session, so if I'm not running at my 10k or half pace for a session the average pace is usually around 6:30-8 minutes per mile depending on the number of miles I am running and how I feel. Thanks for the link though, I'm checking it out now.   

2011-03-24 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

You seem to be an outlier - it's pretty rare for someone to run 50 and up to 100 (!!) miles per week without ever have done any speedwork, let alone even know the typical distance around a track. In fact, you're the first I've ever heard of. 

Generally, once folks start really training hard in volume (like 50+ mpw), you start at least considering trackwork given the big volume, but then again, if you're a pure ultra guy, that may be different.

Where are you from?



2011-03-24 1:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

My coaching adviser suggested I get some racing flats (non-spike) for the track and races. He said it's somewhat mental that when you put on the flats, you know you're going to be running fast. I haven't purchased them yet because I hear the sizing can be on the small side. When I get to a running store, I'll be getting some. They are also supposed to be a lot lighter than training shoes.

If you just use them for the track and shorter races, they should last a long time. From what I've seen, they also aren't as expensive as a lot of training shoes.

2011-03-24 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
agarose2000 - 2011-03-24 1:33 PM

You seem to be an outlier - it's pretty rare for someone to run 50 and up to 100 (!!) miles per week without ever have done any speedwork, let alone even know the typical distance around a track. In fact, you're the first I've ever heard of. 

Generally, once folks start really training hard in volume (like 50+ mpw), you start at least considering trackwork given the big volume, but then again, if you're a pure ultra guy, that may be different.

Where are you from?

 

Naperville, IL. I'll post my total mileage in May when I hit one year of extensive training. Like I said, I train on feel and usually I feel really good but I know when to back off some. I do a lot of high mileage though and usually train(swim, bike, run) 18-20+ hours per week.  I've done this for the past year, and it is something I am really proud of.  I'm just now starting to really tap into my speed and trying to push myself in swimming, biking, and running.  I'll be honest though, although I put up what I consider to be high mileage, I do keep my workouts generally the same week after week.  The variation comes when I'm either preparing for a race or take a trip to go surf or whatever. Generally 5 mile run in the morning M,W,Th,Fri, 60-80 continuous freestyle laps in the pool Wednesday and Friday after work, 14-16 mile run on Tuesday mornings, Monday and Thursday after work I cycle for an hour and a half to 2 hours, and then the weekends I either do a long ride on the bike/bike trainer(6 hours-7-hours) or I will do a brick session which ranges between either a 56-50 mile ride and 15 mile run or a 100 mile ride and a 10 mile run.  Sundays I either swim 60-80 laps in the morning and get a run in between 10-15 miles or if I feel good I will skip the swim and just do a longer slower run.  Like I said I've almost stuck on this schedule every week for just under a year, there may be like 8-12 weeks in the year where I didn't do a brick session like the one mentioned above on the weekend. Please don't take this as anything other than me trying to explain myself to you all who do not know me or understand my training.  I've also not been injured this year.

2011-03-24 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

There's nothing wrong with doing the same thing over and over for a long time.  You are actually a great case study in demonstrating that consistency over time trumps any kind of speedwork in developing endurance (and what what most people here consider to be "speed"). 

Of course, eventually you will not see any more progress after doing the same thing over and over.  That's where you can start forcing your body to adapt by pushing other buttons.  Track work, hills, tempo, etc can all play a role.  But the core will still be what you have been doing.

2011-03-24 2:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

Generally 5 mile run in the morning M,W,Th,Fri, 60-80 continuous freestyle laps in the pool Wednesday and Friday after work, 14-16 mile run on Tuesday mornings, Monday and Thursday after work I cycle for an hour and a half to 2 hours, and then the weekends I either do a long ride on the bike/bike trainer(6 hours-7-hours) or I will do a brick session which ranges between either a 56-50 mile ride and 15 mile run or a 100 mile ride and a 10 mile run.  Sundays I either swim 60-80 laps in the morning and get a run in between 10-15 miles or if I feel good I will skip the swim and just do a longer slower run.  Like I said I've almost stuck on this schedule every week for just under a year, there may be like 8-12 weeks in the year where I didn't do a brick session like the one mentioned above on the weekend. Please don't take this as anything other than me trying to explain myself to you all who do not know me or understand my training.  I've also not been injured this year.

Wow. That is really impressive! I have nothing to add, only that you are incredible!

2011-03-24 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
JohnnyKay - 2011-03-24 2:11 PM

There's nothing wrong with doing the same thing over and over for a long time.  You are actually a great case study in demonstrating that consistency over time trumps any kind of speedwork in developing endurance (and what what most people here consider to be "speed"). 

Of course, eventually you will not see any more progress after doing the same thing over and over.  That's where you can start forcing your body to adapt by pushing other buttons.  Track work, hills, tempo, etc can all play a role.  But the core will still be what you have been doing.

This is exactly what I am struggling with right now.  I feel like I am still making progress with the same old training I've been doing and don't want to change my routine. I still want to build on my base because I want to see what my absolute max limits are in regards to a training load.  I don't enter a ton of races per year but I feel that I've improved on each one I've done(in terms of time).  On the other hand, I enjoy the feeling of running at my absolute max from time to time and seeing how my mind and body can adopt to the pain.  This is why I want to add more speedwork.  Plus I've seen how running long distances over time has improved my short distance running times but I feel to really improve on those I would need to do more speedwork.  I could be wrong on all this, I don't know.



Edited by chicagosurfer 2011-03-24 2:38 PM


2011-03-24 2:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
I suggest you read through those links I sent you to.  (There are other things you could read as well--books by Daniels, Lydiard, Pfitzinger, etc--but it should be the same basic theme.)  What you want to do is make sure you have some kind of "plan" for your speedwork to get the most out of it.  Planning a 6-8 week period where you really work on that top-end (perhaps sacrificing some of your typical volume), can work wonders.  Then you go back to what you have been doing for awhile.  After a few months, repeat that "speed" cycle.  Doing that should allow you to reap the most gains as opposed to just sort of 'randomly' doing mile repeats on the track every once in awhile.
2011-03-24 2:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?
You might want to check out this group....some serious runners out in the Chicago burbs.

http://www.fasttrackracingteam.com/Profile/Register.php
2011-03-24 3:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

JohnnyKay - 2011-03-24 2:44 PM I suggest you read through those links I sent you to.  (There are other things you could read as well--books by Daniels, Lydiard, Pfitzinger, etc--but it should be the same basic theme.)  What you want to do is make sure you have some kind of "plan" for your speedwork to get the most out of it.  Planning a 6-8 week period where you really work on that top-end (perhaps sacrificing some of your typical volume), can work wonders.  Then you go back to what you have been doing for awhile.  After a few months, repeat that "speed" cycle.  Doing that should allow you to reap the most gains as opposed to just sort of 'randomly' doing mile repeats on the track every once in awhile.

 

awesome, I appreciate it.

2011-03-24 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Questions for those who run track/do speed work on a track?

running2far - 2011-03-24 2:57 PM You might want to check out this group....some serious runners out in the Chicago burbs. http://www.fasttrackracingteam.com/Profile/Register.php[/QUOTE]

Funny, Dick Pond is right across the street from my house and I was thinking of stopping in after work.  Thanks.

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