General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Getting rest and using drugs? Rss Feed  
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2005-12-11 2:52 PM

Member
54
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South Beach, FL
Subject: Getting rest and using drugs?
I have some trouble sleeping at nights and am considering talking to my doctor about a sleeping aid such as Ambien. Has anyone here used it and had any negative effects, (grogginess, lack of motivation, etc) in your training as a result? I need my rest, however I don't want to further hurt my training either.


2005-12-11 3:06 PM
in reply to: #303329

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2005-12-11 3:50 PM
in reply to: #303329

Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?

This is a very unqualified statememt, but is my opinion. I think you would be much better off looking for a natural herb that would assist you in getting better sleep.  Try to find out why or think about what is causing you not to get the sleep you feel you should, try to address the underlying problem instead of looking for the quick fix for the symptom.

Good Luck!!!!

2005-12-11 4:23 PM
in reply to: #303329

Elite
2777
2000500100100252525
In my bunk with new shoes and purple sweats.
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?

Capt. Dave I'm not a Doctor although I have played one on tv. I also stay at Holiday Inn Express. I've not had any ill effects from Ambien. Just follow the Dr. advice. Don't take it for more than 2-3 nights consecutively. Ambien works best at getting you back into a sleep pattern.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

2005-12-11 4:37 PM
in reply to: #303329

Supersonicus Idioticus
2439
200010010010010025
Thunder Bay, ON
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
keep in mind, sleep medication lowers your heart rate, and if you want to get up and go the next morning, you might feel sluggish bringing it up.
2005-12-11 7:22 PM
in reply to: #303329

Champion
8766
5000200010005001001002525
Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?

Ambien is one of the 'no-go' pills the Air Force gives it's flight personnel when they need to switch their sleep patterns in a hurry (i.e. need to go to sleep at 10am so they can fly all night or something like that).  So, that means as an A.F. aviator, I've had to ground test it.

Hate the stuff.  Won't ever take it again.  It's supposed to last for 8 hours.  I got up after 8 and was then groggy and cranky for the next 8...certainly not able to fly!

They ground tested me on a different one after that that worked much better (sonata) that I'll use when I deploy...but YES, I had awful side effects from Ambien.  That stuff was EVIL!  It seriously knocked me out for an entire day AFTER sleeping all night.  I'm not a fan of artificial sleep aids...fix the problem, not mask the solution...



2005-12-11 7:44 PM
in reply to: #303329

Master
1462
10001001001001002525
Michigan
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
I disagree to some extent. Yes, fix the problem if you can but at this time I can't switch professions. As a firefighter I only get solid REM sleep when I am off duty. And then my circadian cycle is whacked out. I might respond to call all night then get home and sleep from 8a-4p. Then when it comes time to go to bed at a normal time I am screwed. I have tried melatonin, valerian root, sonata, restoril, ambien. I am now trying ambien cr which is controlled release. I can't take any of them at work so I usually take a sleep aid 2-3 times a week. I had a sleep study done at the University of Michigan and they basically told me if it bothers me too much where it effects my life to switch occupations. I have found running my arse into the ground with workouts help. I have done it all, cut caffiene out early, etc. etc. I sucks but it's a way of life for me. Hope you can find some peace.
2005-12-11 8:10 PM
in reply to: #303329

Master
1534
100050025
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
I'm a firm beliver in Melatonin. It is NOT a tranqulizer, so there it no harm done to the body or brain or whatever. It is a naturally occuring hormone in your body that puts you to sleep when it is dark in you surroundings. Likewise it turns into Seratonin in the morning to wake you up when its light. A Melatonin supplement also contains calcium and whatnot so you can take it even if you don't think you need it, it is used to establish a normal sleeping pattern. There are numerous studies of additional benifets Melatonin has. I has never experianced any side effects with it, even at my young age. But check with your doctor first.
2005-12-11 8:29 PM
in reply to: #303413

Champion
8766
5000200010005001001002525
Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
Well, yeah, needing it for your job is different.  I mean, if I have to take sonata so I can be awake all night to bomb bad guys, I'll do it.  But I do believe this person was talking about having a regular job and having trouble sleeping at night not involving funky schedule switches.  In which case, I recommend trying natural methods vs. drugs.
2005-12-11 9:17 PM
in reply to: #303329

Master
1534
100050025
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
Yesh, This may be the first time I've said this but...I'm glad I'm still in school.
2005-12-11 9:19 PM
in reply to: #303430

Master
1462
10001001001001002525
Michigan
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
jldicarlo - 2005-12-11 9:29 PM

Well, yeah, needing it for your job is different.  I mean, if I have to take sonata so I can be awake all night to bomb bad guys, I'll do it.  But I do believe this person was talking about having a regular job and having trouble sleeping at night not involving funky schedule switches.  In which case, I recommend trying natural methods vs. drugs.


I also recommend trying natural methods by all means. I am not saying it is good to jump into a prescribed sleep aid but there are legit situations it is needed even for us who don't bomb bad guys for a living.


2005-12-11 9:48 PM
in reply to: #303329

Veteran
270
1001002525
Tuscaloosa, AL
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
My sleep patterns are so screwed up I just about had a breakdown about a month ago. I would typically get 3-5 hours during the week and then be so exhaused by Friday that I would sleep most of the weekend. To say my family life, work, and training suffered would be a gross understatement.

I can't tell you how much I hate Ambien and particularly the side effects that go along with it. I took it several times and each morning my wife would tell me the crazy stuff I did during the night. It is amnesiac so I had no memory of pulling out a pistol to shoot the bed bugs, talking to the little blue haired old ladies that were sitting on my wife's shoulder, talking to a stock broker about putting in trades ( he really wasn't in the room with me), getting up in the middle of the night and cussing out the house contractor because he put pillows under the carpet, getting up in the middle of the night and writing a completely whacked out jibberish email that I sent out to about 15 people ( that one was real bad and I had written proof). Then tried Ambien CR three times. 2 times I went to sleep quickly and woke up in 45 minutes like someone had turned on a light switch in my body and I had mainlined coffee. The other time I'm told I got up on all fours on the bed and started barking like a dog.

Lunesta worked pretty well for me and I didn't have the bad taste that most people have.

I finally went to a sleep specialist Wednesday and he put me on .5mg of Klonopin 1 hr before bedtime. It has worked well so far and the plan is to ween me off in 5-6 months when I get my sleep patterns back in order. I've read the side effects, but my sleep is so bad I'm willing to accept them for now. Also went into sleep/wake times, prep before bedtime.

The doctor did say that Melatonin is a promising compund but in and of itself does not realy work because it has a difficult time crossing the blood brain barrier and the only real way to get a benefit is to inject it directly into the spinal column. He did say that there is a new drug on the market that uses Melatonin and the manufacturer has figured out a way to make it cross that barrier.
2005-12-11 11:25 PM
in reply to: #303329

Coach
9167
5000200020001002525
Stairway to Seven
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?

THere is a great book called, "The Promise of Sleep"  Check it out at yoru library, get it on tape/CD etc.  It is written by one of the men who discovered REM sleep as a medical student. 

As far as "natural aids" are concerned, everything acts inside the body as a chemical agent, vitamins, minerals, enzymes, "drugs" and "herbal medicines".  There is an active ingredient that interacts somewhere and causes an effect.  Whether or not it is "natural" or manufactured is moot in my opinion.  herbal medicines are frequently better tolerated simply because the active ingredient is very dilute compared to a manufactured version by a pharaceutical company.  The many posts ehre saying people take a half dose, or a small dose of some drug supports the idea that you use only what works and no more.  Frequently for "natural" medicines, the opposite is true, in order to get an effect, you have to use a large dose in comparison to the drug company version. 

But that's a whole topic for another threat.  The only "natural" solution is better sleep hygiene, for more on that topic, google it or read the book mentioned above, it is excellent and will only enhance your current sleep habits, even if you don't think you have any issues.

One final thought from a personal POV, I do think that sometimes a temporary sleep aid can help reestablish normal patterns and is healthier than struggling for weeks/months on your own.

I used a low dose of amitryptilene for about a week at a time during medical school to help reestablish normal patterns, and have not had to do it since. 



Edited by AdventureBear 2005-12-11 11:26 PM
2005-12-12 11:33 AM
in reply to: #303421

Pro
6582
50001000500252525
Melbourne FL
Gold member
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
Melatonin...

I travel to Asia alot, across the country, work messed up hours, etc and use it when needed. 1mg or less or else you'll have some really far out dreams!

Don
2005-12-12 11:41 AM
in reply to: #303344

Cycling Guru
15134
50005000500010025
Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
crusevegas - 2005-12-11 4:50 PM
Try to find out why or think about what is causing you not to get the sleep you feel you should, try to address the underlying problem instead of looking for the quick fix for the symptom.


That would be my advice as well.
2005-12-15 9:51 PM
in reply to: #303329

San Francisco East Bay (Pleasanton), CA
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?
DO you know why you have trouble sleeping? Are all your hormones at normal levels? I ask because I'm a thyroid cancer survivor on thyroid meds and when my meds need to be adjusted, I can tell because I can't sleep well. WHen I used to be hypothyroid and was undertreated, I had trouble sleeping. ANd of course there are other reasons for not sleeping well.
Just wondering if you've made sure you're physically OK.
I've taken Ambien and it worked for me just to get my sleeping pattern back. But I never took it more than three days in a row. Melatonin worked for me sometimes too and it really works well for my hubby.
If it's work or other stress, there are many things you can do to distance yourself from those thoughts and activities, such as meditation, listening to meditative music or chants, reading before going to bed, etc.
When I swim at night and then go home and relax before going to bed, I sleep quite soundly.
Hope you get some zzzzs
--Kandice


2005-12-16 8:52 AM
in reply to: #303329

Expert
997
500100100100100252525
North Central WV
Subject: RE: Getting rest and using drugs?

I guess everyone is definitely different.  Ambien has changed my life.  I have suffered from insomnia since I was a baby.  I have used everything herbal to no avail.  I have also used anti-anxiety drugs, antidepressants and all of the OTC meds with an antihistamine in them.  The herbals did nothing and everything else left me hung over in the morning.  Ambien is perfect for me.  No drowsiness at all.  I get a good 5-6 hours sleep on the stuff.

The only side effect for me is if I take 10 mg, I can get amnesia.  If I am sensible, I take the meds and then go to bed.  Sometimes I stay doing whatever it is I have been doing (ie surfing the net) and then I find out the next day that I have sent emails that I don't remember sending.  Fortunately for me, I only need 5 mg to knock me out and this dose doesn't seem to have the amnesic affect for me.

The one time I took Ambien before a triathlon, I placed second female overall :-)  My first and only overall placing.  So I am fairly confident in saying that it didn't hinder my performance too much.

If you want to give it a shot, ask your Dr. for a sample and try it on a weekend when you don't have anything important going on.

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