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2013-01-10 9:19 PM

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Subject: Newbie, BIG mistake!

I feel like I just threw 2 months of swim training out the window.  When I first started swimming, I could swim a 50 (25 yd pool) and was out of breath at the end.  So I looked around on here for advice and asked questions to the local swimmers at the pool.  And for whatever reason, I decide to use a snorkel. 

On the 6th, I did the following (w/Snorkel all freestyle)...‎2x50, 200, 300, 400, 500, 300, 200, 100.  Rested about 90 secs between. On the 7th, I ran 3.2 on the treadmill, then swam,(w/snorkel all FS) 2x50, 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 100, 2x50(fast pace on the 50s) Today, I ran 3.2, jumped in the pool and swam without a snorkel.  HOLY CRAP!  WTF?!? Breathing was Fugged.  Stroke was Fugged. I felt worse than when I first started!!  Talk about a smack in the face!!  I pushed through with some drills, but after trying to swim more than a 100 without the fear of drowning, I gave up. 

Im glad I figured this out now, instead of a couple weeks before Muncie HIM in July.  THAT would have been a disater!  So I plan on changing my plan, and using the snorkel LESS THAN HALF the time, just to build up technique and strength. I still cannot believe how much I relied on the Snorkel as a crutch.  Newbie swimmers take note with my mistake...Use the snorkel sparingly! 



2013-01-10 9:40 PM
in reply to: #4573196

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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
Why did people tell you to swim with a snorkel? A few I swim with at Masters use them, but it's because they issues with their neck or back.  And a few will use them once in a while for drills.
2013-01-10 10:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
I'd suggest forgetting the snorkel altogether.  Sure, you'll be out of breath for a while, but as your technique and endurance improves, so will your breathing.  The longer you use a crutch, the longer it will take you to get to that point... just my two cents.
2013-01-10 10:41 PM
in reply to: #4573196

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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

You may find it interesting that using a snorkel is not necessarily against the rules in a triathlon swim.

That said, I do agree with your point... learn to swim efficiently without it.

2013-01-11 2:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

I coach kids at an amature swim club, they sometimes use snorkels to help with breathing so they can focus fully on their techinque.

The biggest difference is that, A, they use a snorkel perhaps for 1% of their weekly swimming time and B, they don't do competative open water swimming. When in the mix with 1000 other swimmers you will be turning your head to breath like each breath is your last.

If your struggling with breathing because of fitness but want to keep practicing good technique, swap the snokel for a pull bouy and a float. Do seperate kick  sets and pull sets untill your fitness improves .

Good luck with it 

2013-01-11 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

AbbieR - 2013-01-10 9:40 PM Why did people tell you to swim with a snorkel? A few I swim with at Masters use them, but it's because they issues with their neck or back.  And a few will use them once in a while for drills.

I'm still curious about this question first. Would think you could go without a snorkel based on the distances swam, just have to get the timing.



2013-01-11 12:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

When I talked to a few people at the pool, I saw a few swimmers using a snorkel.  So I asked, "What about using one of those?"  They didnt have any negatives about them or experience, so I just jumped in head first and ASSumed that using one would help me. Embarassed

I dont think I would want to use a snorkel on the swim on my HIM and I think I will ween myself off it as quickly as possible! (before the month is up)  Although I do like how far I can swim with it, I dont think its going to help me in July.

I do think that my breathing will get better with the more my body becomes conditioned.  I just need to work on the exhale under water and breathing more.  I try to exhale slowly under water, then find myself gulping for air as I timed it too late to properly breath while my head is turned in the correct position. Vice versa also, I breathe out too fast and find myself turning my head too soon looking for air to breath.  Im sure like the rest of my training, the swim will get better with more reps and time.

Thanks for the advice!!

Craig Smile

2013-01-11 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
I used fin's and bouy for most of my workouts when I first started swimming and Like you when I swam without them I struggled. I learned my balance and technique was so bad the longer I swam the more my legs sank. I would work on your stroke and get rid of the snorkel...my 2 centsLaughing
2013-01-11 1:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
I also think that swimming without a snorkel is important to learn bilateral breathing. I made sure to learn to breathe on both sides as soon as I started swim training, and I'm glad I did. It helps me rotate my body, since I'm breathing on both sides, and I think you need to know how to exhale underwater so that you don't just fully exhale all the time. 
2013-01-11 3:02 PM
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2013-01-13 9:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

Swim training will help you. Swimming with a snorkel takes breathing out of swimming which at times can balance out your stroke. But you need to be able to swim and breath.

Breaking the snorkel habit will likely be challenging. Be sure to exhale as soon as your face is in the water and slow down while swimming. I suspect when you get it, things will click pretty quickly.

So floating and balance drills may help you.



2013-01-14 10:19 AM
in reply to: #4573196

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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
Throw away the snorkel. Cold turkey, no weaning, no crutch. Really it's the only way.
2013-01-14 11:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

I havent been back to the pool in 4 days (I have been in a few Cross-Fit and Spinning classes instead) but I plan on NOT using the Snorkel when I get wet again. 

A friend of mine also used the snorkel and went yesterday and trained without it.  He said it was rough, but he managed.  He too is going to be snorkel free.

2013-01-14 7:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

I agree that you need to bury the snorkel.  The only use for one is to perhaps help dial in a better catch and high elbow.  Most people drop their outstretched arm (and elbow) when they go to breathe.  This just creates huge drag and you end up pushing down on the water, which then lifts your head more.  When your chest comes up, you legs go down.  Its a vicious circle.

Your best bet is to concentrate on balance drills.  Use a pull bouy to help lift your hips so when you do rotate, you're not lifting your head to breathe.  If you keep your head low, it'll create a bow wave and a small pocket that you can get plenty of air.  Conditioning isn't getting you out of breath.  The problem is not exhaling fully.  As another poster said, as soon as your face is in the water you should be exhaling.  If you don't, most swimmers, after a couple lengths, will go into oxygen debt.

Start out by standing at the end of the pool, put your face in the water and exhale.  When you need air, stand up.  Then try it by bending at the waist and just stroke without moving.  Since you won't be rotating as part of the body roll, just practice turning your head to breath.  At some point soon, practice body alignment and body balance drills.  When you get sick of that, do more drills!  Balance in the water is huge.  You'll get it but you have to learn to relax and take it slow.  And like another person said, learn to breathe to both sides.  You need options in open water for swimmers, chop, etc.  Good luck.

2013-01-16 4:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

Well I swam last night without the snorkel.  It wasnt too bad and it wasnt my usual distance.  But I managed it by taking more breaks between laps.  The first couple laps felt good, but then I would get winded and start the "Gulpin" for air.  My stroke felt good before I got tired, so now I just have to keep at it and get more conditioned so I can swim longer.

Also, after watching a few different swim videos and trying the different techniques,  I determined that tilting my head to the rear (looking back) while rotating it up worked for me.  It took a few laps to get it, but Im looking forward to being able to swim some distance. Laughing

 

Thanks again for the suggestions and comments.

Craig

2013-01-17 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
Thanks for the tip. I just started using the snorkel, and have been thinking how great it is to be able to swim longer distances without having to turn may head to breathe. I will now be using it only sparingly to practice drills or to concentrate on certain parts of my stroke. I was originally thinking how I could get better endurance by just using my snorkel all the time.

Thanks again,
Timmer


2013-01-18 8:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
Trust in the fact that you're not getting winded because you're in terrible fitness.  I see many weight challenged people winded while walking on the the treadmill, yet they can easily swim lap after lap.  I'm not talking fast, race pace laps, but continuous swimming.  Repeat it to yourself!  Swimming is so technical that it takes some time, especially if you're trying to improve on your own through trial and error.  Get a video camera.  You'll see errors that you swear you were doing correctly.  Everyone is in the same boat as you learn the basics.
2013-01-22 3:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
slow down while you are swimming, make sure to breathe at every stroke.  your not holding your breathe while under water are you?  you should be breathing in at each stroke and breathing out in the water.  this way you always get fresh air in your lungs.  try it and let me know.
2013-01-23 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

Last night I did the following...100, 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 100.  I was right around a 2 min 100 and it felt, OK.  I was breathing both sides on every other stroke and that seemed to be working.  I noticed that the first few laps, my technique felt great.  I would stretch my arm far in front of me and have a strong pull.  I was rotating well and everything would just flow.  Then into my 300, I would notice that I wouldnt reach out as far, and my pull felt a bit weaker.  When I finished the current laps and would rest and start again, I felt great again.  I felt like I was gliding through the water like Im suppose to, then fatigue or whatever would set in and I had that sinking feeling.

Also, the last 100.  I was doing 25yd sprints and WOW!  It felt GREAT!!  I did the first 25 in 20 secs and would then rest for the rest of the minute.  At that time I would sprint back to the other side, 20 secs again, rest 40.  The 3rd 25, 19 sec sprint, 41 rest.  The last 25, 17 sec sprint, rest 43 and then cool down with some back stroke.  MAN, did I feel my stroke work during the 25 sprints!  It felt GREAT!!  My reach was fully extended, my pull felt sweet,  and I was moving a lot of water!!  Now I know that this wont do ---t for me while swimming a mile, but too me, it just felt good to feel the months of swimming come together for a short time.  

Is it just me, or does having that sinking feeling while swimming slow the norm?  It feels like Im working harder to go slow??  When I was doing the sprints, it felt like I was gliding through the water like I should have been doing all along.  I LOVED it and I want that feeling while swimming at race pace...HELP!!

2013-04-24 2:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
I have a similar problem I've created.  Pull buoy dependency.  I do all my pool swims with a pull buoy and struggle without it.  I know I need to start weaning myself off it but the difference is night and day!
2013-04-24 4:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

ironnewb - 2013-04-24 3:13 AM I have a similar problem I've created.  Pull buoy dependency.  I do all my pool swims with a pull buoy and struggle without it.  I know I need to start weaning myself off it but the difference is night and day!

 

Don't wean.... go Cold Turkey.

There's literally ZERO benefit to doing all of your swims like that.  It's meant as a simple, short drill, and that's it.

I'd strongly recommend finding a coach and getting some swim lessons.



2013-04-24 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
Qwk - 2013-01-23 10:12 AM

Last night I did the following...100, 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 100.  I was right around a 2 min 100 and it felt, OK.  I was breathing both sides on every other stroke and that seemed to be working.  I noticed that the first few laps, my technique felt great.  I would stretch my arm far in front of me and have a strong pull.  I was rotating well and everything would just flow.  Then into my 300, I would notice that I wouldnt reach out as far, and my pull felt a bit weaker.  When I finished the current laps and would rest and start again, I felt great again.  I felt like I was gliding through the water like Im suppose to, then fatigue or whatever would set in and I had that sinking feeling.

Also, the last 100.  I was doing 25yd sprints and WOW!  It felt GREAT!!  I did the first 25 in 20 secs and would then rest for the rest of the minute.  At that time I would sprint back to the other side, 20 secs again, rest 40.  The 3rd 25, 19 sec sprint, 41 rest.  The last 25, 17 sec sprint, rest 43 and then cool down with some back stroke.  MAN, did I feel my stroke work during the 25 sprints!  It felt GREAT!!  My reach was fully extended, my pull felt sweet,  and I was moving a lot of water!!  Now I know that this wont do ---t for me while swimming a mile, but too me, it just felt good to feel the months of swimming come together for a short time.  

Is it just me, or does having that sinking feeling while swimming slow the norm?  It feels like Im working harder to go slow??  When I was doing the sprints, it felt like I was gliding through the water like I should have been doing all along.  I LOVED it and I want that feeling while swimming at race pace...HELP!!

Here's my two cents...I "taught" myself to swim a couple years ago.  Other than looking at videos online and reading articles (which did both help), I had no instruction on what it was supposed to feel/look like.  Never did a lesson because I didn't want to spend the time relearning my stroke (even though I knew my form was probably attrocious...turns out, though, it wasn't that bad) and didn't want to spend the money.  Then my shoulder starting hurting badly 4-5 weeks ago.  I've got my first IM in May and I was desperate to get this fixed.  I signed up for a lesson through a local tri store.  Turns out all it was was that I wasn't using my legs properly and my hips were sinking.  He introduced kick drills to add onto my distance training (ironically, in light of the initial discussion, with a snorkel rather than with a kick board) and taking some of that pressure off of my arms has eliminated the pain.  At first, it was making me more tired and out of breath in my long sets because I was using more muscles than I was accustomed to.  This had me worried whether I would be able to adapt in time to be prepared for race day.  After literally two weeks of implementing this (only 5 workouts!), I got the hang of it and was able to use my legs less, but maintain the form in the water. 

My GUESS is that when you're sprinting, you have more proper alignment in the water because your lower body is being used more and you get that glidng feeling, but when you slow down to do your longer sets, you lose that form making everything harder and feeling like you're dragging yourself through the water.  I'm a little confused about how you're saying you're breathing.  Do you mean you're bilaterally breathing every third stroke or you're breathing every other stroke and alternating sides occassionally to practice breathing both sides?  I would definitely go with the later to get more air if you're not.

But regardless of my opinion, I'm no expert (like many on here) and haven't seen you swim (I wouldn't know what to do even if I could see you swim!)....the point I'm trying to make is, I think you'll find it's some of the best money you've spent (BT cliche #2) to have a lesson or two even this close to the race.

2013-04-24 9:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!
Nice work on giving up the snorkel dependency. A quick word of warning about Muncie 70.3 - the water is very warm and so the swim is hardly ever wetsuit legal. you need to get yourself out in the open water before the race to practice sighting as well as breathing, it is really quite a different experience to swimming in the pool.

Muncie is the first race I had ever done without a wetsuit , and I loved the swim but a couple from my Masters swim group were panicking about not having the crutch of the wetsuit.

Good luck with your training !
2013-04-24 11:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

Whoa!  I forgot about this thread.  Im thrilled it helped at least one person! Smile

 

My swimming has improved mainly because, I have increased the distances I swim per workout.   Monday I did the following....500 Free, 400 Breast, 200 Back, 500 Free, 300 Breast, 100 Back, 400 Free.  The other day I felt like crap so I managed to get in a 500 Free and 1000 Free.  Tonight Ill probably do 2000 broken up in 5x400s.  I need to throw in some drills, but my time is limited so I do what I think is right.  I also figured that Sprint Tris will be the minimum I do, so all my swim training starts with a 400 Free.  Good days or bad days, we all have them, so I figure I better get in AT LEAST a 400 per workout. 

I completed my first Tri on Saturday and I learned that I need to up ALL my training!  My swim was good (3rd out of 17 in my class) but my ride and run needed a lot more work.  The swimming portion was a great morale booster for the rest of the race as I passed more people than passed me! 

Now I just need to find xx mph on my bike and xx minutes off my run! Laughing

2013-04-24 2:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbie, BIG mistake!

ironnewb - 2013-04-24 3:13 AM I have a similar problem I've created.  Pull buoy dependency.  I do all my pool swims with a pull buoy and struggle without it.  I know I need to start weaning myself off it but the difference is night and day!

 

As long as your race is wetsuit legal you will be fine.

 

I did all my swims last year with a pullboy because I was curious if it would help me swim better with a wetsuit.  I think my swim fitness suffered some and my front end technique didn't improve enough to over come that, but I still swam with no problem on race day.

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