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2006-07-18 11:43 AM

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Giver
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Subject: Americans: Pay to flee

Just heard on NPR that the US government is finally (after 7 days of fighting) helping its citizens to evacuate from Lebanon. It's been difficult, obviously, since Beirut's airport was incapacitated early on in the fighting. The US has used helicopters to evacuate the neediest, but the bulk are being evacuated on cruise ships. The catch? Evacuees have to sign a promisory note to pay back the government the expense of their evacuation.

According to the report, no other country is requiring repayment from their citizens.

 



2006-07-18 11:47 AM
in reply to: #486034

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Pro
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Reston
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

when I was running this morning, I passed one of those road side news stand things that has The Apartment Guide, Apartment Showcase, and all those other freebies in it.  There was also "The Guide to Lawyers."  Maybe they could work something out.

2006-07-18 11:54 AM
in reply to: #486034

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Elite
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Evans, GA
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Does W own cruise liner stock?
2006-07-18 12:12 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Pro
3705
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Vestavia Hills
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

... should there be a free lunch as well.

Lebanon dangerous?  ... who knew?

2006-07-18 12:19 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Expert
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New Port Richey
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

I see no reason why the shouldn't pay. If they don't want to pay let them stay in Beirut until the airport gets fixed. They are the ones that made the choice to visit an unstable country and should have not that there is a certain risk to that.

2006-07-18 12:34 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Champion
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

The people that got caught in the hurricane that hit Cancun didn't have a free ride home from the Gov't. 

If you choose to go someplace dangerous, or anyplace for that matter, just because you're an American doesn't mean that you're special.  The only people that shouldn't have to pay, IMHO, are the Embassy staff.  They are asked to be there.



2006-07-18 12:36 PM
in reply to: #486034

Pro
4040
2000200025
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Actually, Lebanon has been relatively stable for quite awhile.

It's a shame to read that some people here feel that the blame for being bombed in Lebanon rests with the people who chose to visit the country. In the case of the family in the link below from Montreal, they were visiting relatives when they were bombed out of existence.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1969e842-d0fa-40b3-...


2006-07-18 12:38 PM
in reply to: #486101

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Marvarnett - 2006-07-18 12:34 PM

If you choose to go someplace dangerous, or anyplace for that matter, just because you're an American doesn't mean that you're special.  The only people that shouldn't have to pay, IMHO, are the Embassy staff.  They are asked to be there.

I completely agree. There are travel warnings to these countries, and they could have left anytime before.

I read that there were a couple of students there. My first thought was "I would NOT let my child go there. And if they fought me, well, its on them."

2006-07-18 12:56 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Champion
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

Wouldn't they be paying for a plane ticket home eventually anyway, even without the fighting?  Don't see why it's that big a deal.  After all, the State Department has been issuing travel warnings for Lebanon for quite some time. 

Mark 

2006-07-18 1:00 PM
in reply to: #486105

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

Opus - 2006-07-18 1:36 PM ... It's a shame to read that some people here feel that the blame for being bombed in Lebanon rests with the people who chose to visit the country ...

No one is blaming them for visiting the country ... but asking them to take responsibility for a decision made to visit a country that has a long history of being unstable is not unrealistic.

 

2006-07-18 1:05 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Runner
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Whenever something like this occurs, I am always amused by people who complain that things aren't going fast enough for their liking.

Do they realize what it takes to organize a mass evacuation from a combat or disaster zone? Especially one in a distant land. That doesn't like us. Warships don't cover ground the way an aircraft does. But, we have no place to land an aircraft. We also have no transport helos that could cover the distance to Lebanon and back again from the closest AO or base.

Should they pay? Well.....they paid to get there, I assume. They can either wait to use their return tickets (which they *GASP* paid for), or they can try to leave the country by their own means, which *GASP* costs money, or they can rely on their government to come pick up their stupid @$$es, which, coincidentally, *GASP!* costs the TAXPAYERS money.


2006-07-18 1:57 PM
in reply to: #486034

Pro
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
I think the issue is that the roads to the airport are bombed out, the airport is bombed out so people are basically trapped. Their return tickets are worth nothing, even though they are already paid for.

I don't think it was reasonable to expect that Lebanon would have become a war zone so quickly.

I believe it's fairly standard practice to evacuate citizens who unexpectedly find themselves in war zones.



2006-07-18 2:38 PM
in reply to: #486034

Subject: ...
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2006-07-18 2:44 PM
in reply to: #486203

Runner
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Opus - 2006-07-18 2:57 PM

I think the issue is that the roads to the airport are bombed out, the airport is bombed out so people are basically trapped. Their return tickets are worth nothing, even though they are already paid for.

I don't think it was reasonable to expect that Lebanon would have become a war zone so quickly.

I believe it's fairly standard practice to evacuate citizens who unexpectedly find themselves in war zones.


It's also standard practice for the State Dept. to charge people for the evacuation. So.....I ask why this is such a big deal? As for the stability of Lebanon......That's a debatable point, especially after the Palestinian elections, never mind the history of the region, and the travel warnings that the State Dept. issues.
2006-07-18 2:52 PM
in reply to: #486203

Pro
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

Opus - 2006-07-18 2:57 PM... I don't think it was reasonable to expect that Lebanon would have become a war zone so quickly.

Not to be contrary, but there has been two solid weeks of escalating violence + kidnappings (above the norm) with Isreal rattling their swords at the border ...

I believe it's fairly standard practice to evacuate citizens who unexpectedly find themselves in war zones.

... which, I believe, is being done.  The question posed was whether the citizens ought to be bear some responsibility for the cost associated with being placed on a cruise ship or other methods to evacuate them.

2006-07-18 3:13 PM
in reply to: #486255

Pro
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
brian - 2006-07-18 3:52 PM

Opus - 2006-07-18 2:57 PM... I don't think it was reasonable to expect that Lebanon would have become a war zone so quickly.

Not to be contrary, but there has been two solid weeks of escalating violence + kidnappings (above the norm) with Isreal rattling their swords at the border ...

I believe it's fairly standard practice to evacuate citizens who unexpectedly find themselves in war zones.

... which, I believe, is being done.  The question posed was whether the citizens ought to be bear some responsibility for the cost associated with being placed on a cruise ship or other methods to evacuate them.



Ok, I give up!


2006-07-18 3:25 PM
in reply to: #486034

Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
St Charles, IL
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

Well, they *are* being evacuated.  Nobody is being turned away or asked to fork over money upfront or they get left ( at least from what I've seen reported ).

If you travel somewhere the US Gov't says "don't go, travel at your own risk, not safe for you", should you be surprised and outraged when it turns out those warnings should have been heeded after all?

I don't see a massive problem with asking people who've put themselves in a dangerous situation and need to be rescued to accept some of the burden of their rescue.

Several states have statutes that permit the recovery of rescue costs for people who ignore hazzards and warnings and other avoidable situations and then require rescue.  Example, hikers who ignore 'closed' signs on an unsafe trail, and end up requiring helicopter extraction due to their action.   I don't see this as being much different.

2006-07-18 3:42 PM
in reply to: #486034

Expert
1164
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New Port Richey
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

And besides most of them are being taken to the ship by helicopter. A cruise and helicopter sight seeing ride for $200 bucks, thats a damn good deal. 

2006-07-18 3:48 PM
in reply to: #486309

Pro
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
kgart - 2006-07-18 4:42 PM

And besides most of them are being taken to the ship by helicopter. A cruise and helicopter sight seeing ride for $200 bucks, thats a damn good deal. 



Yeah, I don't know what got into me!
2006-07-18 5:38 PM
in reply to: #486108

Champion
6627
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Rochester Hills, Michigan
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Comet - 2006-07-18 1:38 PM
Marvarnett - 2006-07-18 12:34 PM

If you choose to go someplace dangerous, or anyplace for that matter, just because you're an American doesn't mean that you're special.  The only people that shouldn't have to pay, IMHO, are the Embassy staff.  They are asked to be there.

I completely agree. There are travel warnings to these countries, and they could have left anytime before.

Ding.  You have the benefits (whatever they might have been) of a life in Lebanon, but there are costs too.  This is one of 'em.

And FWIW, no one's paying to evacute me out of Detroit. 

2006-07-18 7:15 PM
in reply to: #486034

Extreme Veteran
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Sydney
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
The one that gets me down here is that Australia has a large Lebanese population and we currently have 20k or so citizens in Lebanon... but many of them are there long-term and actually have dual citizenship - ie they came over during the trouble then returned once things were stable.... and now they want Australia to rescue them, or even more galling - get the young guys out before they get called up to serve in their country's (ie Lebanon's) army.

WARNING - I haven't looked at this in depth so may have some of the facts wrong, but that's my take from newspapers etc.


2006-07-18 7:26 PM
in reply to: #486101

Master
1249
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Lexington, Kentucky
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Marvarnett - 2006-07-18 12:34 PM

The people that got caught in the hurricane that hit Cancun didn't have a free ride home from the Gov't. 

Hijack and Gripe:

Following Katrina, certain media pundits were making inferences about the groups of people on TV asking for help.  No such inferences were made about the people stranded by Rita who also appeared on TV asking for help.

That being said, evacuation insurance would not be an unreasonable investment for someone bound for a country that is so frequently in turmoil...

2006-07-19 7:52 AM
in reply to: #486499

Giver
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Update: Republican senators say evacuation fees will be waived. If it's so reasonable to expect the expats to pay, why the concession?
2006-07-19 8:32 AM
in reply to: #486776

Champion
6627
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Rochester Hills, Michigan
Gold member
Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

run4yrlif - 2006-07-19 8:52 AM Update: Republican senators say evacuation fees will be waived. If it's so reasonable to expect the expats to pay, why the concession?

IMHO...it has nothing to do with the people in Lebanon and their plight, it has everything to do with 'what does it do for the congresswonks' and their partisan agenda.  I think it was driven by three things...

1) It's a relatively cheap way of buying votes on a visible, emotional subject

2) it allows the republicans to break the string of really solid press they've been getting lately by doing something benevolent for the oppressed, and

3) it corners the Democrats, as they'll likely have to agree with this (I'm surprised there wasn't baby-kissin' involved), so both sides can claim on the front page of the NYT that they're really non-partisan and cooperating smoothly at all levels of government.

They roll like that.

2006-07-19 8:39 AM
in reply to: #486819

Giver
18427
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
rkreuser - 2006-07-19 9:32 AM

1) It's a relatively cheap way of buying votes on a visible, emotional subject

2) it allows the republicans to break the string of really solid press they've been getting lately by doing something benevolent for the oppressed, and

3) it corners the Democrats, as they'll likely have to agree with this (I'm surprised there wasn't baby-kissin' involved), so both sides can claim on the front page of the NYT that they're really non-partisan and cooperating smoothly at all levels of government.

They roll like that.

Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner! We were looking for "pandering", but we'll accept that. 

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