Police and PTSD?

Here's what I can say about the subject from my own experiences in 30 years.  No, as a profession, we rarely (close to never) use the term PTSD.  We also have no programs in place, as a profession, to recognize and get help for someone with PTSD.  Is it a problem?  I think the answer is yes, without question.

I will only speak for myself in order to give you an idea of what an Officer will go through in the course of a career.  I have probably been to 300-350 shootings, either self inflicted, accidental, or murder.....including 6 of my co-workers.  I can easily, VIVIDLY, recall minute details of what I saw at those scenes with very little effort.  Some are absolutely haunting.  I guess I've been to about 1/4 that amount of fatal or serious injury car accidents......once with an entire family, save one 3 year old boy, killed.  I have extracted those bodies and injured along with other first responders. Again, I can recall very specific details of them.....even the ones that are now decades old.  Today I run an investigative unit of 20......so my crew goes to most scenes.  I rarely go anymore unless it is absolutely necessary.  I know my glass is nearly full.  I just can't put too many more of those visions into my brain.  I don't really want to see any more.  I think I'm lucky in a number of ways.  1. I recognize it.  2. I'm in a position where I don't have to go. 3. I have a greater ability to work through this kind of stuff than most because I have a strong family and strong outside interests.  

I work just outside of a large metro area.....the folks directly in those areas see MUCH more.

So.........how many officers are out there that don't recognize it, and have to go, and don't have a strong support system?  I'm afraid the number is probably big.

I haven't spent much time thinking about the issue because the work doesn't end and Officers just work from case to case and call to call.......it's endless, and it builds and builds over years.  So yes, it should be looked at.

I have loved my career and I could never imagine myself in another line of work, so I hope you understand I'm not complaining or whining....you asked.

I know you are not complaining.  And what you outlined is essentially what I was expecting.  Just like not every single individual that returns from active duty has PTSD I know not every LEO doesn't either.  Like you said, you are lucky because of the reasons you outlined but I think of those, the 3rd might be the greatest.

I appreciate LEO's and the job they do.  I also get so frustrated when I see some act the way they do.  Finally, I appreciate that in some areas they are in an almost no win situation. 

Maybe if our government would take a closer look at this and other mental health issues it could go a long way towards mending some of the issues that our communities are facing.

Thanks for your frank and honest response. 

Crowny, I have no personal experience, just something I heard from a friend's wife recently. He is an EMT and they were out for the afternoon (he was not on the clock). My brief synopsis is that they came upon a crash scene and were there before anyone else. He ended up working and she saw first hand what her husband sees.  She spoke to him about it later, and he told her that what she saw was merely a tiny glimpse into what he has seen and done in his career. Then he clammed up.  My point is simply that I am not sure any of us outside the realm of first responders has any idea of the psychological impact.  PTSD, like you mentioned, may not be the right description, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a whole lot of whatever it is out there.  I would shudder to think of the impact it has.

LB, thanks for sharing your observations, but more so, thank you for all you and your fellow officers do.

You won't hear it much, but as a group, the Police are struggling with a lot of what we are seeing too.  I'm not going to defend what you are about to see in that video coming out of Chicago, nor will I defend the killing of Tamir Rice, or the gentleman in North Carolina last year, opr a number of others.  To me, it's insanity......and maybe that's your point and it needs to be looked at closer. 

I work with some of the most dedicated and courageous people I have ever been around.  It hurts me when I see someone in my line of work do something to drag those people down.  I don't have answers.

I'm not saying it is an excuse for what they are doing, and for some of the instances, it may not even be a factor.  There are people that just do bad things and sometimes they are in LE.  That being said, I find it hard to believe that ALL of them are because they are bad people. 

And I think that IS the point I'm getting at.  It is a complicated issue.  PTSD sucks.  Like Cancer sucks.  My dad has PTSD because of Viet Nam.  He worked around the corner from the OKC bombing when it happened and suffered another 9-12 months of flashbacks before he actively sought help.  My best friend I've known since I was 6 has it from what he saw and did in Kosovo and the middle east.  And another friend has dropped off the grid, not even his family knows, because of PTSD from Operation Desert Storm in Kuwait.  I'm one person and I have 3 people that are/were close to me with it.  I think it is MUCh more common than anyone wants to admit.  Mainly because we aren't doing anything about it actively.

I don't personally know anyone in LE, medicine or rescue.  But I HAVE to believe, like was said above, that they too suffer from this.  They see so much suffering, sometimes inflict it (justifiably so through defense or enforcement).  That HAS to have an impact.  And I'm saddened that there is not more support.  And I hope, one day, that changes.

I would say that you and I are not at odds here.....you make some very good points that I have seen thrown around among our staff.  Finding an answer is going to be a long, tough road.  I'm glad I don't have many years left......trying to find a fix while holding down the fort will not be easy.  Your points are absolutely valid.

Thanks for your comments and insight.

Completely agree that we are not at odds.  I would say we are probably saying the same thing. 

For instance, the Chicago video (which I wish they would stop playing on TV.  They are showing a death which I thought was taboo, but that is for another thread).  They said this morning that the guy has 15 years of service on the force but before this had something like 19 complaints filed against him.  But when did those complaints start?  Year 1 or year 10?  If it was year 1 one might be able to say this guy is a bad egg.  If it was year 10 then maybe (and it is maybe, not definitely) he has changed over that time and might be suffering from PTSD. What he did made no sense based on what I've seen in the video.  Not that I'm an expert. 

You are right.  Finding the answer is NOT going to be easy.  And it is not going to happen overnight.  Mental health is difficult.  And the lack of funding across the board isn't helping.  And it is WAY outside my scope of knowledge and influence.  But hopefully someone will start paying attention, soon. 

I have no idea either.

As someone who is not LE, I do work with cops daily dealing with ORC crimes and other criminal activity and the one thing I have learned after 15 years is that I quit trying to figure out why people do the things they do, but it si often times unexplainable to me and you.

I think the best part of my job is being able to interview people who do those "unexplainable" things.(both good and bad things) It's a pretty good window to humanity. 

I sure would like to have an hour with the officer from Chicago. 

There is a documentary coming out shortly titled 'Code 9 Officer Needs Assistance' that deals specifically with the issue of police and PTSD.  The first public screening will be next week at the Tampa Bay Underground Film Festival.  Here's the trailer for the movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO01Qeg15KU

Three weeks ago an Officer at my department shot and killed himself.  Funny thing, I didn't think about including that in this thread until I saw that trailer.

That Officer was the 6th, of people I have worked in the same unit or department with, who have shot themselves.

I don't really know if that's a lot or not.

Actually......none.  Kind of weird.

15-18% have it according to that.  If that is true that is quite a few.

I can't remember where I read it originally, but a quick google search turned up this:

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/basics/history-of-ptsd-vets.asp

People tend to equate PTSD exclusively with combat, but it can be associated with any traumatic experience.  I'm pretty sure that much of what first responders see over their career qualifies.

A St. Louis City Officer, who shot a man last year and ended up being front and center during the unrest, wrecked his patrol car last night on the way home, apparently drunk.  Craziness. Like I said, I don't know much about PTSD, but I don't know how this stuff happens either.......maybe the issue does deserve a very hard look as it applies to police officers.  Society can't have officers patrolling who are suffering from it, that's for sure.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking about when it comes to PTSD.  People who used to be one way are now another.  Doing things that just aren't smart.  I'm not saying it is all of them but I now believe it HAS to be a significant % of them.  I just don't know what that % is.