Hello from a dreamer

Welcome!

Greetings from a fellow dreamer.....I probably wasn't born with a good body (LOL--have always been aggravated with my lack of a body!) but have been active in running and swimming since childhood. Ran at a fairly high level in high school and college, but never quite good enough to be national class. Not for lack of training or dedication, just lack of speed, and maybe proper coaching. (My college team and coach were really focused on 800-5000m, and that's just not where my talents lie.) Kind of wish I had discovered triathlon sometime before age 41, which is what actually happened. I basically walked away from competitive sports after college; always felt disappointed I didn't make it to world class in anything.....

I'm now an international school teacher living in Vietnam, took up triathlon after first getting back into running (did a half marathon) after basically 20 years of running very casually since college. I really struggled with similar low-grade injuries and running in the heat here; got into master's swimming and from there got talked into my first tri. Fast forward six years--I'll be competing in my age group at the world half-ironman championships in a few weeks. It's not the Olympics, and I don't have a snowball's chance in h.... of getting on the podium, but after being a has-been at 20, I'm pretty excited about it!

Advice--(Having learned most of this the hard way)

* You have to do this sport (or any sport) for the love of it. Unless you're a top pro, there's little prize money. Even most of the pros can't live on prize money--they have endorsement deals, etc.

*Don't rush full Ironman. That is a huge time commitment, especially if you're working full time and have family commitments. Not saying it can't be done, but take some time to explore the sport and try different distances, build your skills, stamina, and resilience. Personally, I'm in no hurry to do a full IM. Just don't feel I have a good situation for training here.

*Work on your swimming. If nothing else, find a swim coach or instructor. Swimming is awesome as recovery from running and biking; it's also important so you don't blow your race from the get-go by getting too stressed out or heart rate too high.

*"Negative buoyancy" is bunk. Can't believe how many people blame their poor swimming on being skinny "runner" types, having muscular legs, etc.
I look like the least buoyant person on the planet. Almost 5'8" and less than 120 pounds dripping wet. But I'm usually in the top 3 in my age group on the swim in big races. When I was in high school, I was 5'6" and 112 pounds, and swam the 1500m in 21 minutes. Not awesome for a pure swimmer, even in a competitive high school or age group meet, but plenty good for tri, had I taken it up at a younger age. It's all technique, and training.

*Be patient. Figure out how to push yourself without overdoing it. It's one area where a coach can help.....sometimes. You still have to choose the right coach, and communicate clearly with them about any physical or mental issues you're having with your training.

*Work on developing the resilience to handle volume and intensity in training. Depending on your injury issues and body, that might include deep tissue massage, flexibility and strength work, improving technique, making sure your equipment (shoes, bike and fit, etc.) are suited to your biomechanics, improving nutrition and recovery habits, building a base of volume before upping intensity, etc.

*A coach doesn't necessarily need to be local. I work with someone who's based in the US and our communication is totally online. I do suggest you find someone locally based who's qualified to work with you on swim technique, though, if you are serious about progressing in tri. Coaches can work with you online through video analysis to some extent, but I think it's more useful to work with a qualified coach on deck, especially if you need major technique work.

*Best of luck! This is a great site for information and just plain old moral support. There are very few triathletes here in Vietnam (for a while I think I was the only woman triathlete in Saigon), and this site has been a godsend!

Hi Hot Runner, and thank you for the awesome advises!

Thank you for your introduction, you have a really impressive profile. I'd love to follow your performances during that world half-ironman championship!

Got it for the tips. I'm meeting tomorrow with an amateur professional (21yo, run a marathon in 2h21, plan to become professional in 2 years), and I'll ask him about ways to train in Osaka for triathlons (I believe he'll also do a full ironman in November this year). Depending on what info I can gather, I'll make a detailed plan, but I'll follow your advice on favoring a local swim coach.

I'm also glad that you think highly of this website. I'll spend some time regularly to read its content over the following months.

2 weeks update:

• I've abandoned last Friday the Runkeeper Sub 3:45 Marathon training plan after 2 months. It had become way too intense (55km per week), my body couldn't recover fast enough and I felt I was going to injure myself seriously at any time.


• I found a trainer (recommended by a friend of mine who's aspiring to become pro in 2 years), and he will help me with body care, monitoring, core training, marathon running form, mental training. It will be 1000? per hour (about $10), so I feel this is a really good chance for me (and apparently my running form isn't good). I'll try to meet him once a week.


• I found a triathlon school at a swimming pool nearby (3.5km away), and I'll start going there once a week from next week. I went once last week to discover, and was really impressed. Out of 20+ people of various ages (10yo to 80+yo), everyone kicked my although I was given fins. Very humbling, and makes me want to train hard and join their level. The price is 6800? per month for 4 classes (including swimming pool fee), which seems reasonable, but I might be able to join their staff as an english teacher and get the courses for free (lucky!)

Sounds like you've got a good start. See if the trainer is meeting your needs; if not, you can always look for someone else. Honestly, I have never thought much about run form and not sure how important it actually is. There are probably some basics of good form that inexperienced runners might not intuitively know, but if you look at elite runners (I have spent a lot of time in my life watching them, as a spectator and being lapped by them), run form is kind of all over the place. A lot probably depends on the individual's body build and other biomechanics. But there are some common errors (like over-striding, or arms crossing the midline) that a coach could help you with.

Swim clubs/teams are always humbling. Some of those people (even kids) probably train 5-6 days a week, even twice a day (well, maybe not the triathletes, but pure swimmers). Even some of the young kids could kick the a$$ of a lot of triathletes. Keep at it and you will make progress. It's really mostly a matter of work and technique. Good that you might be able to trade some English teaching!

I just discovered that, as of a few months ago, there is now a Saigon Tri Club. So I guess my days of being the tri club are officially over!

Thank you HotRunner

Awesome news for the Saigon Tri Club, you finally found a chance to train with a group of friends :D

Thank you HotRunner

Awesome news for the Saigon Tri Club, you finally found a chance to train with a group of friends :D

1 month update:


Running

• While I had ran almost 200km the 2 previous months, I only ran ~8km in September so far


• This is due to my trainer telling me that my form was horrible, and that I would not be able to run past 50yo if I continue like this


• He taught me the proper form (arrive on flat foot or toes, not on heels, raise thighs and jump forward, move buttock along with the legs etc), and after running 4km on my own, I hurt my calfs and couldn't run for a week.


• This new form tires me very quickly, I'm losing all confidence I had in running a marathon sub 3:45. Looks like I have no stamina running that way


• Currently spending too much time thinking about form while running, not good. Hopefully I'm be able to fix my bad habits and be able to run on muscle memory only

Body

• It appears my hips and buttocks muscles are extremely weak, which is why I used the calfs too much and hurt myself. Started a core training program to strengthen myself


• My trainer also gives me body care (massage), and this is hellish. Apparently, people have soft muscles and pressing hard on them doesn't hurt. But in my case, my muscles are very hard, and I'm almost crying when he "doesn't press that hard"


• I bought a stretch pole (try lying on the back then holding position with arms and legs in the air, currently impossible) and loop bands (put on the calfs, then extend a leg to the outside)

Swimming

• Went for the 3rd time yesterday (now going every monday, training first then teaching english to the coach)


• This is not getting any easier. Swimmers are sorted in 4 groups, and I'm not able to finish the slowest group's program even though I'm the only one wearing fins.


• Looks like I should be training more outside the classes, but I lack time and nearby pools are just too expensive (and sometimes don't even allow the use of props). Will try to increase the training cadence after November's marathon.


• Same as running, I have to think about dozen of things while swimming (keep arms above head to raise the buttocks, always extend arm to the fullest then hold the water while the other arm rotates, keep legs straight, full leg motion updown is about 30cm, relax, only head should move to the side for breathing, etc), which tires me a lot.

Well, it looks like a lot of complaints, what have I gotten myself into?
But I'm in good spirits . I will do core training everyday from now on, and I might not be able to build enough stamina for November, but at least I'll be able to switch back to my old running style when I get tired, so this should be beneficial in the end.

Hi Adrien,

Hate to say this but I would seriously question the qualifications of the trainer/coach. Something just doesn't sound right about what you describe. Proper form should be easier, not harder on your body. You should NOT be landing flat-footed, either for distance running or sprinting. That sounds really inefficient. There is controversy about heel-striking, but some top distance runners do it, and it seems efficient enough for them. Others run more on the balls of their feet. I tend to do the latter unless super-tired. My bad habit is getting up on my toes to go uphill, which tends to make me cramp in triathlon runs. That is one aspect of form I've kind of had to unlearn. I can usually get away with it in a run race, but not after biking 40-90 km. Forward motion should come mainly from the push off on the back leg, not from over-striding with the leg that is going forward. Honestly, I would just run the way that feels right, and stop obsessing about it. I have been running since age 10, and been told many times my form's not ideal, but I am still here and still running, and never had any serious overuse injuries. If you're feeling sore, find some softer surfaces to run on. Different coaches have different ideas about the "best" way to run, but everyone's body is different. I think we tend to evolve toward the form that is most efficient for us. If it worked for you before and you were healthy, I would not go making major form changes, but focus on building endurance and (later) speed.

Definitely--doing core work and strengthening glutes can help improve run form and stamina (also for bike and swim), but I think again, the improved form should come naturally as those areas get stronger. Massage--not sure. There are different kinds. Deep tissue work can be very painful if it is breaking up scar tissue or areas that are chronically tight. But that is almost like a workout in its own right--you should not be going into the session really sore or fatigued from a hard workout or race, and you need to take a day or two of very easy activity after to clear out the waste products from the heavy-duty massage (plus drink lots of water to flush them out). Massage during a heavy training cycle, in my mind, shouldn't be that aggressive.

Swimming....It does take a lot of work! I'm really glad I learned when I was young. But I also have some bad habits I need to work on. It is extra important for someone who's small and lean like me because there's not a lot of natural strength/power to give me speed--my form has to be really efficient. Keep plugging away at it. It helps to focus on just one aspect of form at a time--like say for this 50m I will just focus on good rotation.

2 months update:

Running:

• Light running over the past month


• According to my trainer, my form now looks good, which is a relief. But I'm still having breathing issues and getting tired quickly. Also quite sleepy recently although I'm sleeping a lot, so it might be due to a problem of nutrition after all. I'll go to the hospital for a blood analysis soon, and I'll let my trainer evaluate whether I should keep a low regime until the marathon or if it's safe to increase the frequency (basically, if I have an hemoglobin loss issue, training hard now would only handicap me next month).

Body

• I tried training regularly, and it seems to have had a good impact on my running form. satisfying so far


• some of the loop bands already broke, cheap stuff.


• Coach was busy this month, so I didn't have a body care session (he also received the NSCA Certified personal trainer certification last week, which makes him a lot more reliable now)

Swimming

• Sessions are still very hard, still using fins half way


• Form also got better, the coach doesn't interrupt me anymore, and even complimented me last week during a video recording session
• 
  
• Water still very heavy, which means I'm using my forearms too much instead of my shoulders and back.


• feet are jumping out of the water, which is wrong. Still using my knees too much, should only move from hips and ankles


• From now on, will go swimming 2 or 3 times a week (Monday, Thursday, and maybe Saturday. Note that Saturday's swimming class is followed by a run, sounds very interesting!)
  

Business:

• Lost my job a week ago (money ran out, they had to cut the team). Decided to start my own entrepreneurial venture, still ideating.


• At this point, my most feasible ideas are related to sport and in particular triathlon. I'll post messages in other subforums to discuss these ideas and ask for feedback (eg triathlon scheduler to help people manage their training sessions, coaching app to help coaches better manage their trainees' data)

6 months update:

Note: Sorry for the long absence, beginnertriathlete had blocked all asia ip addresses and I had to request the whitening of my ip range.


Running:

• I had bought news shoes in France in December, and did some pretty good runs (10km through hilly terrains in 45'). I got used to the forefoot running style and it really improved my performances.


• In January, I picked up the pace of my training to prepare for the February's half marathon. I also tried a 11km mountain trail running track, which was an excellent experience (running style is very different, especially in downward slopes, I learnt a lot from other runners in my group during that event).
  
• Unfortunately, end of January, I got an achilles tendinitis, and it started hurting all the time, preventing me from running anymore. Everytimes I felt it got better and tried to go for a light run, the pain came back, and that ended as a chronic tendinitis. I had to cancel the half marathon (lost the entry fee), and I'm still having issues now a month later... I had paid for another race, a full marathon in 2 weeks, and I'm afraid I won't be able to race it either. This is really saddening

Body:

• In addition to the ankle pain, I have a problem with my wrist (due to an injury at the Aikido dojo I received a year and half ago) which came back stronger these past weeks, and these two problems prevent me from doing much...


• The trainer is too busy, so I have met him only once in 4 months, to check on the achilles tendinitis. He found my running form to be correct, and gave me recommendations for resting and stretching, but that didn't help much. He should be able to find more time for me starting April, I look forward to it.


• When I can, I follow the Reddit recommended routine as bodyweight building program, but this is sporadic and I lack several tools to complete the exercices

Cycling:

• I bought a new bike in January! A Treck Emonda S5 with Shimano 105 gears. Very expensive for my budget while unemployed, but I love it!


• I did only 1 training session since then, 53km with my triathlon swimming group. This was very intense, definitely need to train a lot to get used to it and develop the right muscles. Learned a lot from that training session, and discovered that riding a road bike has nothing to do with riding a normal city bike (eg you don't push down on the pedals, but instead raise your tights up to pull the pedals).


• Should definitely train more often, but it's cold, it takes time to prepare for a session, cycling itself takes time and cycling alone isn't so fun. With my new baby born (now 1month old), time is difficult to find.

Swimming:

• Swimming is going awesomely well.


• In October, I swam 10min non-stop and did 380m


• In November, I managed to swim 480m in 10'


• In December, I went to France with my daughter, couldn't swim the whole month


• In January, I swam 525m in 10' ! I was told that the average of triathletes do 500m in 10', so that was great news


• Yesterday, I did my 4th 10' test, and beat again my record with 560m (lot of pressure from my coach who was expecting me to pass 550m)!


• There's still a lot of work to do (not floating well, low stamina, feet go too deep in the water), the best in the school swimming 800+m in 10', but I'm confident that I'll be able to keep improving for a while

Races

• November 7th: Marathon in 4h42. Goal was 3h45, but my legs died on me around km 27, and I was forced to walk the last 10km.


• Half Marathon in February cancelled due to ankle pain


• Marathon in 2 weeks... Still unable to run due to tendinitis, will probably miss it too


• Very hard to enter a triathlon race for the first time in Japan. Several applications got rejected because I do not have any prior experience. I applied for a sprint triathlon in Osaka in June, and will get the reply next month (lottery)


• I applied for the French Pyrenean half-altriman (middle distance 1.9km/92km/21.1km) and got approved! This will be my big race of 2017 (equivalent of a half-ironman but in the mountains), so I'm very looking forward to it and hope to be able to fix my tendonitis until then.

Hopefully I'll be able to stop injuring myself in the future, really frustrating and demotivating ^^'

Not time now to give much feedback but sorry to hear about the injuries. I have missed most of February myself with illness (cold, flu, bronchitis) and just now trying to build back up. One of the hazards of teaching--I'm exposed to a lot of germs. Plus had some travel in there too.

Swimming--Keep up the good work. It will come.

Biking: That bike needs to be on a trainer (like a stand where you can ride it indoors), not on the wall, and you need to be putting in some serious time on it, if it does not aggravate your achilles. No, it's not always "fun". Videos, structured workouts, music can make it more bearable. That allows you to train at home anytime, regardless of weather. I do 95% of my bike training in Vietnam on the trainer. If not, I would still be back of the pack on the bike, and middle of the pack in my races. It's not my favorite part of triathlon training, but it's reality for me and a lot of other people due to our locations or schedules. (Bad traffic, cold weather, parents of young kids, long work hours, etc.)

Running: Take it gradually, and have modest goals. Instead of racing a marathon, just aim to complete the run leg of your goal race (21 km). I wouldn't try to aggressively change form or do speed work. Just run consistently (when your body allows you to) and gradually build the long runs. It's just too easy to get injured with running, especially when you might not be getting sufficient rest. Not worth the risk, unless/until you are competing at a pretty high level. Your run will benefit more from extra work on the bike (so you are starting it less fatigued) than a lot of tempo or speed work.

Thank you for always commenting Hot Runner Very sorry to hear about your illnesses as well, that's tough

You're right about the trainer... I've pushed back this shopping item because I'd like some expensive atn+ compatible roller stuff, and I can't really afford it at the moment. But maybe I should just buy a cheap old-school trainer for starter (just worried that it will deteriorate my back wheel).

+1 for running goals, I was trying too many things at the same time (road running, trail running, fast short distances, ultra long distances). Guess I should stop running for running, but instead running to achieve my triathlon objectives.

No need for fancy trainers. Your wheel will be fine (that being said, would not run race wheels on the trainer). Just use an old road tire. There are also special super-tough "trainer tires" that some people use, but I've never seen them here. Just any old tire, and remember to switch it out to something less worn before racing! You can do plenty of structured workouts using heart rate or effort. Jorge's winter cycling program (search training programs on this site) is totally free; there are others that you can buy online; some might use power or virtual power, though.

Personally I really like my power meter for training and, to a lesser extent, racing, because it takes a lot of guesswork out of it, but that is a pretty big investment. (I think I paid about $600 or $700 for the PM plus bike Garmin.) Again, t's more important that you just put in the time on the bike, some of it hard, than you have exhaustive and precise data about what you are doing. That can wait until you are further along in the sport and have more money to throw at it.

Edited by Hot Runner 2017-03-02 2:43 AM