Obama considering an executive order on gun control (Page 10)

Brock Samson - 2013-01-16 7:57 AM

I've re-read the Heller decision, yet again.  And I am struck by one thing, the actual lack of veracity of those that argue that "no one" is trying to take your guns away.  This simply isn't true.  The D.C. law challenged in Heller, was according to the U.S. Supreme Court: "The District of Columbia generally prohibits the possession of handguns. It is a crime to carry an unregistered firearm, and the registration of handguns is prohibited."

In Analysing the specifics of the D.C. law the Courted noted: "We turn finally to the law at issue here. As we have said, the law totally bans handgun possession in the home."

Hmmmmm....the Supreme Court in Heller noted "It is no answer to say, as petitioners do, that it is permissible to ban the possession of handguns so long as the possession of other firearms (i.e., long guns) is allowed."

So, accuse me if I don't buy the line that "no one is trying to take away your guns", because the FACTS of pro-control history, yes the FACTS, show something totally different. 

bel83 - 2013-01-16 11:48 AM

Well his list of executive orders is out: Per CNN

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."

Some of these are not bad such as pushing for additional resources for schools and mental healthcare. However I saw someone post earlier that there are provisions within funding and other bills which prohibit, for instance, the CDC to research gun crime other than something as simple as gather statistics. Can a presidential order go against a bill and still be followed? I also REALLY disagree with number 2. In no way shape or form do I think that the state should have access to my healthcare medical records for a background check. what is next, a background check for a job accesses my medical records as well and they see I take XYZ medicine so wont hire me? This is just ridiculous to me and I do not really see how that will fly.

He also is encouraging congress to take up a ban on Military style Assault weapons - how is that being defined?

I also do not agree that increasing these barriers to ownership for legal, law abiding citizens, does much to help with any gun crime. To me they still have not defined the problem well enough to present a solution.

Left Brain - 2013-01-16 1:19 PM

I don't see anything there that I'd want to argue over.  It all seems pretty reasonable to me, although much of it is just fluff IMO.

However....watching Obama use the children to make his points/arguments/whatever.....that was shameful.  Once again, it's all about emotion.

Aarondb4 - 2013-01-16 1:25 PM

I don't like the emphasis on Doctors asking about gun ownership and how the gun is stored.

Funny that it says in the ACA that they can't ask, but now they can because Obama says so. 

bel83 - 2013-01-16 12:48 PM

Well his list of executive orders is out: Per CNN

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

TriRSquared - 2013-01-16 11:37 AM

You mean like Fast and Furious?

Big Appa - 2013-01-16 10:03 AM

So the proposed bans will be put through congress because I don't see them on the executive orders.

Big Appa - 2013-01-16 1:11 PM

So Obama left the ban up to congress where most likely it will be voted down rather than making a move and making it an executive order? So he did just what I thought he would do.

TriRSquared - 2013-01-16 12:37 PM

You mean like Fast and Furious?

Brock Samson - 2013-01-16 1:40 PM

It will be interesting to see how the media reacts to these proposals.  I especially am fasinated to see how they react to increased funding for school resourse officers.  (That's Cops in schools people, plan and simple, an SRO is a sworn law enforcement officer who is in the school)

I find this especially fascinating in light of the out cry by the left and Democrats against the NRA proposal to put more firearms in schools either through arming teachers or armed security in all of america's schools.

And yet that exact proposal is now contained in the president's proposal, although the more artful and less offensive term of increased funding for SRO's is being used.

Why, when suggested by the NRA it's total insanity and rejected out of hand, and yet here it is in the Presidents proposals.

Hmmmmm.....are we going to see any intelectual honesty or is it going to be the typical hypocracy as usual?

Hook'em - 2013-01-16 2:31 PM

I thought that about #4.

Brock Samson - 2013-01-16 1:40 PM

It will be interesting to see how the media reacts to these proposals.  I especially am fasinated to see how they react to increased funding for school resourse officers.  (That's Cops in schools people, plan and simple, an SRO is a sworn law enforcement officer who is in the school)

I find this especially fascinating in light of the out cry by the left and Democrats against the NRA proposal to put more firearms in schools either through arming teachers or armed security in all of america's schools.

And yet that exact proposal is now contained in the president's proposal, although the more artful and less offensive term of increased funding for SRO's is being used.

Why, when suggested by the NRA it's total insanity and rejected out of hand, and yet here it is in the Presidents proposals.

Hmmmmm.....are we going to see any intelectual honesty or is it going to be the typical hypocracy as usual?

crusevegas - 2013-01-09 12:25 PM

I hope you are right.

On another note, I wish our politicians were as concerned & had the same amount of urgency about controlling spending as they are about controlling guns?

coredump - 2013-01-16 2:27 PM

Hypocrisy as usual, I suspect.  Just like the side of the NRA will keep screaming that it's wrong, even though these are pretty much the ideas that Keene (President of the NRA) proposed/suggested.

I think more of the objection is to the idea of arming teachers and other "civilians" vs. having increased SRO presence.  I could be described as a "flaming liberal", and I have no problem with an increased SRO presence.

jmk-brooklyn - 2013-01-16 1:48 PM I agree 100%. I think there are a lot of reasons why arming teachers is a bad idea. Several of which were called out by people in law enforcement and the military here on BT, so it's not just a pro-gun/anti-gun position, but having armed cops or SRO's in the schools is fine with me.

Jackemy1 - 2013-01-15 3:47 PM

Looks like the executive order is being announced tomorrow.

The use of children as props for political gain is absolutely sickening. 

The very basis of what makes us human is the emotional reflexes we have to protect our children. Playing to that emotion makes us vulnerable to latch on to any solution - real or not- that would end human suffering. 

A man that preys on that emotion, that human vulnerability, for political gain knowing full well that he will not reduce human suffering uses power for contemptible purposes  

http://wapo.st/UoTLmf

jmk-brooklyn - 2013-01-16 10:13 AM

bel83 - 2013-01-16 2:27 PM

Most of these seem pretty reasonable. Agree that the assault weapon thing is poorly defined and should go away. Regarding your objection to #2, how do you propose limiting the access to guns for mentally ill people, which almost everyone agrees is more effective than limiting the guns themselves, how do we do that if medical records aren't part of the background check process?