Beth and Yanti's Newest Manatees - FULL (Page 10)

I printed out the Trinewbie plan...well, I discovered this morning only half of it printed...and was looking over it this morning.   It seems really light or in a sense "non-demanding" for what I can do, i.e. I swam 1000yds the other day, easy pace with rests and felt great -this only asks  you to do 200yds; I run 3 miles regularly, the early wks on the plan only ask you to run 15 min.    I am seeking the wisdom of the Manatees since I am so new to this.   Should I "slow down" in a sense and follow this Beginner Plan?   Would it be the best training in the long run?

Another question somewhat pertaining to the plans is about HR training.   Because of my age, my "aerobic" HR is super low...like in the mid 130s...I feel like I am running at a snail's pace and could probably walk at the same speed.    I fight with it in my mind because I want to run faster, but in the big picture, is it better to train at this snail's pace?

Thanks!
Sharie

Edited by ranchrunner 2009-04-13 12:41 PM

Sounds really good! The most important thing is to have a structured plan and stick with it, and it sounds like you do. Also, don't be afraid to take a few days off between plans--sometimes your body needs the rest, and an "after-plan" doesn't have the built-in rest like a regular plan does.

Sharie, you can keep doing what you've been doing until the plan "catches up" to you. The other thing is to keep a close watch on your energy levels and how you're feeling. Every 3rd or 4th week, dial down to what the plan has. It's really important to take down time to let your body assimilate the gains it's been making.

HR training really depends on how your HR zones were assessed to begin with. Did you do a field test or is this based on a formula?

Thanks, Yanti. I really love the structure of training plans. It helps me to see everything graphed in my training log. It makes me really happy to see how close I am to meeting my planned goals each week.

Since I have only been running prior to the past week, I don't really have "what I have been doing".   Even for running, the past 2 months have been very disrupted with no actual plan to speak of.   I was taking care of my mom in AZ so did what I could when I could, as well as running 2 races - 5m and 10K.    I did most of my "training" during that time on a recumbent indoor exercise bike that I borrowed. 

The HR is just based on formulas that I would online - TriNewbie has a good article and also Wiki has some interesting info.   Do any of you HR train?

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Edited by wgraves7582 2009-04-13 1:12 PM

GOOD AFTERNOON MANATEES.

nice simple swim for this afternoon, 25 mins.

i used the swimplan.com plan and it worked splendidly.

tomorrow is the first of four bricks - 30 min swim, 60 min spin.

DOES ANYONE ELSE REALLY LIKE BRICKS?  i DO, almost more so than trng session when im just doing one discipline in isolation. 

though sometimes i get 'wiggy' during the transition, i REALLY like going from one thing to the next.  both the swim to the bike, and the bike to the run.  its amazing to me how these disciplines work 'in synch' w each other.  you couldnt pay me to go back to running exclusively.  I LOVE TRI-IN'.


and i talked to my sweetie this afternoon and told him about how nice the weather is gonna be on Friday, and he's gonna work it out so he can take a 1/2 day and we can go biking together [i can ride w the man, just not race w him.  wink]

gotta get out while the gettin' is good.

Edited by skrtrnr 2009-04-13 1:38 PM

HI SHARIE. i HR trn.  didnt used to.  but im SO glad i do now. 

i took a lot of advice from my previous tri-mentor Gordo Byrn who is a big proponent of HR trng and trng in Zones 1&2 during your trng session. 

for me that means my HR doesnt go any higher than 139 in the course of any trng session.

i found it takes discipline ie 'restraint' to train this way.  and it took some getting used to.  initially i had to dial it 'way back' and  i felt like snail as well.

i came to the place where i realized that i was working unnecessarily hard most of the time.  i didnt even realize out tired and 'beat up' i was until i started dialing it back.

what a difference its made though. 

my endurance level is high. 

im trng and racing healthy. 

my energy level is consistent.

im able to 'hit' all my trng sessions,

i feel at end of one session enough in 'reserve' to hit the next session.

its been a splendid way to trn.  i would never go back to the way i was trng before....

Heart rate training is an excellent tool that is often misused. The problem with using a formula for HR is that for most people, it's going to give them the wrong zones. (That is to say, something like 80% of people will fall within twenty beats either way ... translation ... most people will be off!)

There are good field tests to do to establish HR zones, but you need to be pretty fit to do them in the first place. If you feel pretty good, I'm happy to publish what they are, and then based on the info to give you zones and more detailed training info.

The thing is, unless you have a pretty extensive running base, most of your running should be at an aerobic pace. The simple test is, could you carry on a conversation fairly easily during your running? Do you finish runs feeling like you could do a couple more miles?

I am trying to train with the HR zones as well.  That means for my runs I am really slow to be in zones 1 -3.  I have to keep telling myself to slow down.  But, I feel like I am building up a good base and  I have felt pretty good since I dialed back my running.  

Yanti, I would be interested in what you have as far as field tests.  Someday I will get an actual lab test but for now good running and biking field tests would be useful.

I just wanted to give encouargement to those of you looking for a used bike.  A new bike just wasn't feasable for me so I was obsessed for several weeks looking at craigslist in my town and the surrounding cities.   I did find a bike from someone about 1 1/2 hours away.  I ended up with a trek WSD for decent price and really like it.  So keep looking they are out there!

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ANYONE HAVE ANY SECRET TRICKS TO MAKE THE TRANSITION FROM THE BIKE TO THE RUN GO SMOOTHER?

i have orthotics that need to be contended w.  not much i can do about that, but....

im all ears w my first tri experience just round the bend.

im not so concerned about the swim to bike transition since i will only have to get my cycling shoes and helmet on.  (im wearing a tri suit so no fuss that way)

any suggestions/tips would be most welcome.

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Thanks for the encouragment on the bike.  If any of you have time, stop over at the Classifieds board and check out the bikes that have been offered to me http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid... I also have a bid on Ebay for a Trek WSD.    I am more drawn to the WSD.   The Trek is a men's frame.  Haven't heard back from the first offer - the craigslist one - on price.   Got some nice photos of the Specialized today.

Edited by ranchrunner 2009-04-13 4:23 PM

Great job on the ride! But awww, Shawn ... we don't hate hills ... we love hills ... anyone can piddle around on the flats ... but hills show us who we really are ... and WHO WE REALLY ARE IS AWESOME!!!

Haha .. good thing I didn't go with you. ;-0

Actually my Achilles is KILLING me today ... trying to run this morning may have been a major setback ... I'm hobbling around the house now.
I can't even go to spin tonight, I'm in that much pain. Damm I hate injuries.

Very good observation on the run--when in doubt, slow is better. You can get a lot faster doing a lot of slow running, but if you get injured--well, there you go.

Gotta make a few slight corrections to the field test and zones info, though ... by definition, MAX HR is maximum heart rate--that's something you only achieve once in your lifetime, so to speak, since it's the MAXIMUM number of beats your heart can reach in a minute. Over that, and, well, um, you're dead

Because it takes an extreme amount of pain and exertion to reach your maximum heart rate, it's not recommended that you try to do so in a field test. Rather, you try to gauge what's called your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate, which is a more useful training tool.

Also, zones are completely different from plan to plan, coach to coach. Generally, the BT plans follow the Friel training zones, which number 1-5, and 5 is further broken into 5a,b,c. The Friel zones are generally what people refer to when referring to a five-zone heart rate training structure.

More on run and bike field tests in a minute. I am finishing a very nice coconut ice bar

Sweet Shawn. Well, try to transfer your love of hills to the bike, too ... and I never said I was fast on hills, I get dumped by the group I'm LEADING all the time ... I just make it up on the downhills

Ahhhh I'm the opposite .... I enjoy grinding up hills, it's slow-going but a good burn ... it's the going down fast on the other side that is scary! I'm usually riding my brakes the whole way down ...

As I posted before, DO NOT perform field tests if you are fairly new to training or coming off an injury or illness. You should have been training consistently for several weeks (4-8) before performing a field test, and you should be fit enough to DO the field test--that is, maintain very vigorous activity for 20 min or more.

You should be well-rested, preferably not worked out or only had a very light workout the day before, well-hydrated (remember, good hydration isn't the day of ... good hydration results from being well-hydrated within SEVERAL DAYS before, and preferably at all times ) and not eat within 2 hours of this. Field tests are hard!

Either field test will work, but it's even better if you can do both (not in the same day!) (and the results should be fairly close to one another, or you can take the average). If you do this on a road or trail, make sure it is perfectly clear (maybe do it very early in the morning, since any obstacles/stops/impedements will screw up the test), and either flat or on a very even, slight grade. It can also be done on a trainer or a stationary bike. If you do it on a stationary bike, use a tolerable amount of resistance that will let you ride without exceeding 110 RPM and especially without bouncing in the saddle.

Warm up well (but save the oomph for the test itself) for 10-15 minutes.


Lactate Threshold Bike Test #1

For either 6mi or 20min, ride at the highest pace you can SUSTAIN for the entire duration (NOT sprint/slow down/sprint/slow down).

If you can have an assistant handy, have them note your heart rate at the point where breathing becomes labored (heavy/big gulps of air).

The AVERAGE heart rate in this time trial should be fairly close to what your heart rate was when it became labored, which is also your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate. If they are not, either try the other Bike Test, or go with the AVERAGE.


Lactate Threshold Bike Test #2

Start at a moderate effort level and increase by a little bit the pace OR resistance OR gearing OR +5 BPM every two minutes. When you reach a level you feel you could not sustain for 20 min, back off by 2-3 BPM. This should feel uncomfortable but that you could just barely maintain for 20 min. (You don't have to actually maintain it for 20 min, but you know you're not there if you still have to back off a little more). The heart rate at this effort level will be very close to your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate.


Once you get your LTHR, you can input it into this online calculator which is calibrated for Joe Friel's training zones (1-5c), and also the most common system for zones. I'm also happy to provide a further explanation of his zones, what they mean, and how they can best be used for heart rate training.

http://nencycling.org/wiki/heart_rate_zone_calculator






Edited by TriAya 2009-04-13 6:14 PM

Remember all that stuff I said for the bike field test? That is even more important for the run field test, because the risk of injury is higher. DO NOT do this test unless you have a decent running base (several weeks to several months of consistent running) and you know you can run hard for 20-30 minutes.

This can be done either on a flat, clear course (or with a very even, slight grade), a track, or a treadmill. Warm up well (but not pushing it, save that for the test) for 10-15 minutes.

LT Test #1

Run at the hardest pace you can SUSTAIN for 20 minutes. Take note (or have an assistant take note) of the HR you are at when you begin to breathe heavily (fast/big gulps). When you're done, note your AVERAGE heart rate. This should be close to what your HR was when you began to breathe heavily, and this should be close to your LTHR.

LT Test #2

Sign up for a fun local 5K that has a fairly flat course with not too many twists and turns. Warm up 10-15 minutes beforehand. Start out at a pace you feel you can sustain throughout the race, and stick to it. At the 1-mile point, start your HR monitoring. Your LTHR should be your AVERAGE heart rate throughout the last 2 mi.


Once you have your LTHR, you can input it into this calculator to get Friel's training zones.

http://nencycling.org/wiki/heart_rate_zone_calculator

Okay, so now that I've said all that stuff about HR field testing, some of you will be thinking, "But I'm not that fit yet! How can I incorporate HR training to my benefit?"

Remember, HR training can be useful, but it's not necessary. If you don't own a HR monitor, ask me how to get one cheap! (This only goes for the first three askers, or my supplier gets suspicious.) No, really, if you don't own a HR monitor, all the better, because you will learn quickly how to listen and respond to your own body according to its needs.

If you have a HR monitor, get in the habit of wearing it during all your run and bike workouts. Make mental notes of where your HR is at when you start getting into labored breathing, or at the point where you feel you couldn't hold a conversation anymore. That, for starters, is your LTHR. But no need to get into the Zones and all that jazz--just keep these numbers as a mental note. If anything, as you continue training, you will notice that you are able to go faster while keeping your HR low. That is, you'll be going at a pace where before you would reach that labored-breathing state, but now you can sustain it while still being able to hold a conversation.

Now, for newbie runners, you won't really want to get into a labored-breathing state. It won't kill you if once in a while you do--for example, if you have a good hill in your running route, by all means, keep it! You might want to walk it to start out with, but if you've already been running it, keep doing so! But don't try to ACHIEVE the labored-breathing state. You don't need to. Short, frequent runs where you're running at an aerobic (not puff puff) pace are the ticket to building a solid running base.

This is not so important on the bike--feel free to tackle a hill or intersperse short bursts of going faster. However, you should still OVERALL be cycling at a pace where you could hold a conversation (I talk to myself all the time on the bike or yell instructions back to the group if I'm cycling with one) and feel like you still have something in the tank at the end.