Cav's Group - Closed (Page 10)

Alright, so we've got 4 (including me) for a Virtual 5k!  Anyone else?  February 7th would be tough for me as well.  Maybe we could pick a date in March to also give more time for people to join in?

Why not It will be my first 5k race, and it will be virtual

It all depends on the weather. Maybe July would be better , or August to outdo Chris' race organizers.

Seriously, March would be better I think.

March is good for me too.  Any weekend is fine.  There's a small 5k in town on March 20 that I might do, but I'm still not sure.  If it's still icy and I can't go (my version of) fast, I'll save my $$$ and run at home. 

Well, we're moving along for a Virtual 5K in March!  Feel free to add your name (and date suggestions as well for March).  I'd prefer it to be later in March, but I don't have any race commitments then, but if you do, i could go earlier! 

We have:

Rowdypaint (Pattie)
RogerWilco (Burak)
Sicone (Stav)
Wax_On (Chris)
me (ferretracer-Erik)

Edited by ferretracer 2010-01-29 5:57 PM

Whoot!  The weekend is finally here!  And my school semester is wrapped up, so I have nothing hanging over my head.  I got my new shoes this week and they are pretty cool.  I took them for a short (15 min) run yesterday and they felt good.  Tomorrow or Sunday I have 4 miles on the plan, so I'll know more then how they will work out.  Also in the box was a t-shirt, a water bottle, a very nice running hat and a super-sweet track jacket.  Pretty cool giveaway! 

Whoa!  That is a nice giveaway!  Of course, new shoes are even sweeter!!

A virtual 5K sounds great to me! March is good since I am training for the HM at the end of February. Supposed to run my 9 this morning and feeling like crappiola with a cold coming on. Going to try anyway I think since the babies are also CRABBY and getting on my nerves! GRrrrr
 
Have had tech problems for a week or so, have papers to write and feeling like I am in a slump. Maybe a run will make me feel better.

Swam yesterday with another BT member who gave me some great pointers. Will be aiming for MORE time in the pool to work on swimming technique (head in the water). For some reason the whole head in the water swimming leaves me feeling truly BREATHLESS and bewildered. I can SPRINT 300 yds and feel less out of breath than I can swim 50 yds! What gives? LOL

I can swim 600 meters breaststroke and feel fine, I can only manage 15 meters of crawl with my head under, side breathing and feel like my lungs are going to explode !
   Has anybody heard from Cav at all ?

 I spotted Cav on FB a few days ago, but nothing since then.  Wonder what's up. 

RE: swimming-
I'm not much help about swimming but I'll try to offer some advice.  First, slow down.  You might be trying to go too fast.  Seems counter-intuitive, but it might help.  Second (and more importantly), exhale as your face is in the water, then breathe when you rotate.  You shouldn't ever be holding your breath.  Just breathe in (above water) and breathe out (under water).  Try it with a kickboard at first.  Arms out holding the board, breathe in and breathe out blowing bubbles under water. 

Next week's plan.  Saturday I'm doing my Lactate Threshold test.  Horray.  It's a beast, but is the best way to determine your HR zones.  More on this later in the week. 

Monday- Swim 50
Tuesday- (am) Weights 40/Run 20/// Bike 45 (pm)
Wednesday- Swim 50
Thursday- (am) Run 10/Yoga 40/// Bike 45 (pm)
Friday- Run 20/ Weights 30
Saturday- Bike 60- Threshold test!
Sunday- Run 40

Total hours- 7.5 

Hi all,
Pattie, you are going to determine your LT for cycling, right? At least that is what I conceived from your weekly plan. I am curious to hear about your test method.

Last week, I did my 8.5 hours of training with one 3 hour cycling session yesterday. I woke up and cleaned the bike from the accumulated dirt while my last VERY wet ride. And after breakfast off I went. And lo, 20 kms to home rain comes again and I and my bike is wet and dirty all over again. I usually like it and have fun but having cleaned the bike just that morning ... Oh well, that is a bike handling training at the least.

Trying to do at least 4 swim sessions per week. Hopefully, it will pay me off.

This week, I am shooting for a 10 hour training week. Will start doing tempo runs (continuous Zone 3 runs).

Edited by RogerWilco 2010-02-01 1:33 AM

It sounds like a problem with your breathing, which should be relatively easy to fix.

1. Are you exhaling enough underwater, or holding your breath?

Some people hold their breath underwater, and try to both exhale and inhale when they turn heir head. There isn't time for this. To get well oxygenated we need to exhale while our heads are underwater, and spend the time when the head is out of water inhaling. I slowly exhale releasing little bubbles the whole time my head is underwater. There's a nice article on this here:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/exhalation.html

2. Are you breathing frequently enough?
Another thing is perhaps you aren't taking enough breaths. If you are breathing only every three strokes, perhaps try breathing every two strokes for a while until you are comfortable. A lot of people make a big deal out of "bilateral breathing" (breathing every three or five strokes so you breath to different sides on alternating breaths). However, much more important is breathing enough to get oxygenated properly! So, perhaps try "unilateral breathing" for a while until you are comfortable, and take the breaths on your good side (most people have a side they prefer to breath to: I used to be much better at breathing to my right).

3. General stuff I found helpful.
I found the following good on breathing tips:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/breathing.html

The 'Mr Smooth' animation at that site is awesome, great for visualizing good technique. You can find him here:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/

If this stuff doesn't help you might also post in the main forums people will have lots of good ideas.

Edited by neuronet 2010-02-01 9:06 AM

x2 on swimsmooth animation. I learned about it from this site 3 months ago and it has been one of my favorites since then. I really like it and look at it from time to time.

Threshold test as I remember it from last time.  This is done on a spin bike or trainer.  You could also do it for running, but I've not had that pleasure yet.  It helps to have someone there recording your HR numbers, telling you what to do, and cheering you on.  Or bringing a bucket if needed.  More on the bucket later...

Start with 15 min of warm-up. This should be similar to your usual warm up.  It will seem long, but do the whole thing.   
Next is three one minute intervals with one minute recovery.  Those three spikes should be all-out.  Record your HR on those spikes. 
Then a 5 min recovery.  This recovery will seem short. 
After that, 5 min all out.   You'll think that you're dying here.  Not yet!  Record that HR data too.
Then a 15 min recovery.  By now, any freshness is gone from the legs and you will get your true LT. 
Now the 20 min all out effort.  Get the HR up before starting the timer.  Record your HR for this 20 min period. 
Cool down/throw up... whatever you need to do.  Just kind of joking about the throw up. 

Many thanks for the swim help. I was trying to breathe in and out in the same head turn !!! Will try improved technique next pool session.
  After the disappointment of having my first 5k cancelled, I am now pleased  as I have got a place in the sought after Marwell Zoo 10k. The course is right round the animal enclosures at our local zoo/safari park.
   Its not until May 23rd so plenty of time to train.
Easing back a little this week, shin splints playing up again so I have booked an appointment with a Physiotherapist on Thursday afternoon.

wow!  That swim smooth site was great!  It's something I'll definitely go back to before swimming!

Wow, that is some test. And I do not believe for one moment that your are joking about the throw up Please post your test numbers when you are done. If the memory serves me, I think that I read in Friel's "Bible" about LT test and it was something like this: warm-up completely and then do an all-out 30 minute effort. Record the average HR for the last 20 minutes and that is your LTHR. Just now, I checked the link you gave and it says what I remember. Why do you prefer your method? Is it more accurate? And how exactly do you use the other HR numbers?

I know that 220-age formula is just a rough guide. I am reading en exercise physiology textbook right now and it says that the HR calculated by the formula will be within plus or minus 10 percent of the real value.

Good question!  I know Friel's directions are a bit different, but that's the way that our tri class instructor does it.  He got the formula from some other source and combines it with the basic Friel method.  The one min spikes and 5 min effort are a good way to gauge how hard you should try to go during the 20 min test.  I took my 3 spikes and the 5 min HR and tried for about 3-4 bpm lower, which was a good guess.  

During my first test (08) those three spikes were 177, 179, and 175.  Then the 5 min recovery and 5 min all out.  That HR was about 177.  For the 20 min all out effort I was aiming for 175; ended up with 176.

I'll let you know how it goes on Saturday.  Last time it was on a spin bike; this time will be a trainer.  Hopefully it will work out OK.  I'm surely NOT going to use the rollers for it!

And it stands apart from TI, which I find somewhat cultish

I've been looking at that site for tips too and I have to say that it has helped teach me a few things! Now all I need to do it learn to swim slower!

I'm going to have to put off swimming until tomorrow night to start- I'm a Lost and Biggest Loser addict...I can only keep myself up to watch one and the other I'll have to watch on Wednesdays nights...no way can I stay up until 12:30 or so!!!!  Geez am I old...

Hey Eric, today I checked your training log and saw that you did some "over the barrel" drill for swimming. You have written some basic explanation for it, but do you have any extra comments? This week I am trying to focus on my catch and pull phases of my stroke since I think that my problem (well, one of them at least) may be dropping the elbow.

By the way, I found this thread helpful. Will try the tips tomorrow. It may help you or others as well.

Great thread thanks for posting it the link to it! I'll post more about the drill later after work....

Edited by neuronet 2010-02-04 9:49 AM

Cool thread, the person who said 'Swimming is so about technique' had it nailed.

Motivation
I think getting a high-elbow catch/early vertical forearm (EVF) is the most important part of the "arm underwater" phase of the stroke. It is one of the few things that every instructor agrees on. I have read tons of stuff from swim coaches, and without exception the early vertical forearm is crucial. They disagree on a ton of other issues (how to hold the head, how much to rotate the body, etc), but all agree on this.

Why does it matter? As someone said, it is about using your hand/forearm as paddle rather than just your hand. You want your paddle to be facing backwards toward the wall behind you as long as humanly possible during the stroke. This maximizes the amount of backwards force. Hence, you want your forearm to be vertical.

Drills?
So how do we improve at this?

Fist swim.
Swim with your hands balled into fists instead of paddles. This forces you to use your forearm as a paddle. I am still just getting to the point where I can swim decently with my fists. I do 25 yards with fists, then 25 with my hands opened up. It is amazing.

Over the Barrel Drill
I have never seen this drill, but I have frequently seen getting the EVF described as going "over the barrel." At this web site:


So I turned this into a drill to solve a major problem I have with my stroke: I start pulling before I have the EVF in place. That is, I try to exert pressure against the water with my hand/arm before I'm in the EVF position. Big mistake, as this pushes water down instead of back, and increases drag because pushing the front of your body up makes your legs go down, a big bad source of drag.

The "over the barrel" drill is an intense focus on not pulling, at all, until I am in the full EVF position. Until then, I actually act like my arm is like a dolphin trying to minimize resistance with the water, diving over a barrel, until I hit EVF, at which point I give a nice back (lat) based PULL.

My shoulders get much less tired, because I'm pulling mostly with my lats. Overall it is a very smooth motion, the dolphin dive over the barrel into the EVF. As I've seen coaches describe it, it feels very strange, because you don't actually start pulling until your hands have moved quite a bit back, the time it takes for you to get to the EVF position.

I may not be describing it well, so feel free to ask questions if it isn't clear. Basically, if you feel like you are cheating, that you are starting the pull too late, when you are clearly in the EVF position, that is the main part of the drill. The other main part is getting to that EVF position with as little resistance in the water as possible, playing the "dolphin" game.



Edited by neuronet 2010-02-04 5:58 PM

*pop*

There goes my brain trying to visualize all the information (I'm not good at visualizing)...good thing I'm off to the pool in about an hour!  This info plus Mr. Smooth info seems overwhelming, but once I get going and start doing it will be easier to understand-and hopefully easy to implement...well, maybe not easy but as long as it's not extremely frustrating.  Many times the harder things are much more worthwhile