Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! (Page 10)

For a first year triathlete I think duration is much more important than intensity.  At that point they would see large gains in their abilities by simply doing 'it' (swim/bike/run) more.  Holding back on intensity except at races I believe helps prevent them from injuring themselves and builds a solid base for them for the future.

For second/third year triathletes I think they should start working in higher intensity stuff slowly.  Entering a few more sprints, some 5k running races, etc and use those as their high intensity workouts.  This way they get the dual benefit of more transition experience, the intensity training, and more brick workouts that I think a lot of first year people don't do much of.  At this point they should have a solid base to be building on, consistency in their training for a year+ and over the next 2 years they can start working in higher intensity workouts more often, but duration should still hail supreme overall.

After their 2nd/3rd year they will have a good handle on their own abilities, how they recover, how to deal with nutrition, and eating in general life.  Then, depending on if they are focusing on short events or long events would dictate whether they'd benefit more from more intensity than duration or vice versa.

I think that goes for all 3 sports.  The mantra: "run lots, mostly slow, sometimes fast" isn't just for running in my book.  It's the way all 3 sports should be approached in order to minimize the risk of injury.  Over years your body will become strong enough to handle more high intensity workouts as you add them without injuring yourself.

I'm a second year triathlete, even though I'd done some 7 years ago and was in great shape.  I used my first year as one long base building period and stayed completely injury free.  I've seen massive gains in my ability over the past year+ with my training and am only now beginning to push my limits in select races and the very occasional workout.  Although I have a year of base building, I still think my foundation is being forged.

That sounds awesome to be able to go ride at Leguna.  I'm jealous.

I've got a 5.2 mile group run on the agenda for tonight.  Still recovering from my half marathon, so I'll be keeping it fairly easy, looking to keep my heart rate around 160bpm. (my average HR for the half mary was 175... which brings up my next question.. in the next post).

Ok... about HR.  I was shocked to see that I averaged 175bpm for my half marathon.  I had previously thought my LT was right at 170.  But then I did this half marathon, if my LT was 170 I would have been building a massive lactic acid buildup over that length of time right?  I definitely pushed my limit on this race, which leads me to think it should be a good indication of my LT.

So here's some data on my pace vs HR for each mile (I never looked at my HR during the run at all, I just ran by Perceived Effort and pace).  It was a pretty flat course, with the end starting to have more uphills than downhills.
Mile 1 : 7:30 - 156,
Mile 2 : 7:14 - 171,
Mile 3 : 7:14 - 173,
Mile 4 : 7:03 - 176,
Mile 5 : 7:13 - 177,
Mile 6 : 7:08 - 177,
Mile 7 : 7:04 - 179,
Mile 8 : 7:09 - 179,
Mile 9 : 7:14 - 179,
Mile 10: 7:25 - 177,
Mile 11: 7:17 - 180,
Mile 12: 7:30 - 178,
Mile 13: 7:39 - 180 (the "big uphill"),
Last .1: 6:42 - 184 for the last portion (.22miles on my Garmin)

Based on how I felt and how my recovery has taken 2 days, I know I didn't leave much in the tank and paced my performance out really well.  But I start looking at my HR during the second half, and it would appear that around 179/180 is the point where I cross that LT line since I would get there, hold 179, then drop it, then go back up, etc.

Can this data be used to help me set some training zones?

My very general thoughts on duration/intensity:

In the run, I choose volume over intensity.
On the bike and swim, I choose intensity over volume.

Not sure if everyone will get these references, but for me that means I ride like an endurance nation athlete and run like I'm coached by BarryP from slowtwitch.  On the bike it's all hard work, on the run it's almost no hard work but lots of volume.

Of course the principle of specificity requires that an IM racer learn how to go long, and make that part of their training.  But I won't be doing a whole bunch of lazy century rides (or even really long runs) in prep for mine.  I'll be doing 2-3 hour suffer fests as much as possible on the bike.  Only in the last phase of my prep will I try to take that "fast" and make it "far" with some truly long rides... and those long rides will have hard efforts thrown in.  On the run, I'll be logging big miles through frequency, not long run distance.

I made the front page too, but only the small top corner =]




Finally achieved my dream of making the front page of the Sports section, of course I was supposed to be the game winning pitcher for the Giants in Game 7 of the WS, but I digress.

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20100413/SPORTS/4130319/1006/sports/First-timers-embrace-Ironman-s-physical-challenge

Knowing that there may be a few locals following up on my story puts just a bit more pressure on me to finish, which is a good thing.

Edited by furiousferret 2010-04-13 2:53 PM

Planning on doing a large, fast local group ride with my boss tonight, he also happens to be the standing IL Masters 1/2/3 road race champ.  He can destroy me whenever he wants, mentioned the average pace will be around 23-25.  A large number of higher category racers attend this weekly event.  I am hoping to get in the draft and hang on for dear life, if I fall off I am done.   It has been years since I have ridden with roadies, should be fun, wish me luck.

Leguna Seca is an awesome track.  I had the opportunity to take the Skip Barber course there about 13 years ago.  I highly recommend it to anyone, lots of fun.

Greg

Greg

I'm convinced slow on the run, hard on the bike, and technical on the swim; meaning if you can't hold form going fast then don't go fast.  Of course swim advice only applies to newbies like me..

Chris that's awesome man.  I looked at St. George when it was first announced and saw it sitting open for a long time, but that bike elevation chart scared the heck out of me and I went for the flatter IMAZ instead.  I'll be cheering for you.

You can plug in that info into the mcmillan calculator for a general idea.

By definition your LT pace is about what you can sustain for 1 hour at maximum effort.  In that case, it means your LT pace/HR is probably slight faster/higher than what you experienced in the half mary.

Edited by JoshKaptur 2010-04-13 3:35 PM

The McMillian calculator doesn't do anything with heart rates unfortunately.  I did use it in order to figure out what pace I should attempt based on my previous races though and know it shows paces to work out at.  Just nothing in terms of Heart Rate.  A pace can be pretty arbitraty based on how you're feeling that day.  Some days an 9min/mile has me at 165bpm and other days I'm at 150bpm.

Chris that is AWESOME! Congrats on making the front page.

I've got a 2,000 yard swim on tap for tonight after work, hopefully the pool isn't too crowded!

Good for you Chris!
 
All this trainer talk..I think I will get on mine tonight
I don't mind riding on the trainer. I think part of it is all the spin classes I used to take. I am accustomed to pedaling and going nowhere   That and it is safer.

Hope everyone has/had great training sessions today!

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Nice article!

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A thought about training with HR.
I used to always train using my HRM. I was part of a tri training group for newbies and that is how they taught us to train. What I have found over the past year is that monitoring my HR when I run can be my biggest mistake. When I see a certain HR number my mind immediately says "your heart rate is high.. you can't hold that.. you are tired!"  The number represents how I used to feel when I was just starting out yet I see those numbers and I have to do mental gymnastics to ignore the messages in my head.  I am now starting to run without my HRM  on occasion and just focus on pace and distance. I still use it for the bike, it is just the run where the numbers play with my head.

Edited by Kath2163 2010-04-13 6:15 PM

I have an Oly, which I will probably downgrade to the sprint.  I still have a scratchy throat and don't feel 100%. 

I've been SUPER happy training based on RPE instead of HR.  I think when I was training for my HIM that it was key to training.  I think if I had a 6 mile run hanging over my head instead of a 60 minute run (for example) I would have rushed just to get the training done and not focus on listening to my body or focus on technique.


As an aside...
I mistook my training for my HIM as a solid base for my IM.  I did my first marathon this fall and tried to be consistent about getting my butt on my bike during the winter.  I finally got in over 4 hours on the bike this past weekend and tried to make up for slow pedaling with a hard run.  Lo and behold I'm now sidelined for three days.  

I'm slowly learning that my body isn't designed like the big boys on the IMLP thread.  I can't just go out and try to do 600 miles on the bike in a month or 50 miles/week of running... I think I still need to remember the "beginner" part of beginner triathlete.  I guess I just need to be that slow and steady girl.  I PRed the hell out of a 15k race a few weeks ago, but it took almost a week to feel like I was recovered.  I gotta remember the same thing for Lake Placid.  I thought I could push myself and hope for faster times, but I think I need to retrain my brain to go back to the goal of "just finish" so I don't try to over do anything.

I love all the motivation from the big numbers that people are boasting about, I just think I need to bank my enthusiasm for July. =)

 So...I'm a fan of what previous posters said... the first year of triathlon really needs to be about prepping the body for three sports.  I think at the same distance then an athlete can start pushing themselves in following years.  It's a different game with racing longer distances on following seasons though.