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2011-04-20 4:30 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
KeriKadi - 2011-04-19 11:35 PM

I'm procrastinating. Somebody tell me I should go get on the trainer instead of having a Mike's Hard Lemonade.

 

Well, what happened?!?  Did the mike's win?



2011-04-20 4:33 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!

To continue with the running theme a little...

QOTD:  What is your favourite distance for a running race?  Why?  Would it change with a tri?

Richard

2011-04-20 6:14 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
IceManScott - 2011-04-19 8:02 PM

Terrific FTP test with 1 X 20 @ 110% @ 95 rpm.  Second test (which doesn't count toward FTP) was 1 X 20 @ 97% @# 83 rpm.  Strong test. Highest I've been.  Interested in seeing what the coach determines my FTP to be. 

Robin you are my go-to swim mentor   I agreed with every thing you suggested.  I have been with Masters two years and really paying off.  Stroke efficiency is what we are focusing on now after months and months of form work.  But don't let that discourage anyone.  Short courses are only 600 to 1200 yards.  You can do that...You won't win in the water.  The goal is to get out with as much breath left as possible and without using the legs overly so you have them for the bike and the run. 



Nice job on the test Scott!  Your hard work is paying off!
2011-04-20 6:16 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
KeriKadi - 2011-04-19 10:35 PM

I'm procrastinating. Somebody tell me I should go get on the trainer instead of having a Mike's Hard Lemonade.

 



Who won?
2011-04-20 6:18 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
GoGoGo - 2011-04-20 5:33 AM

To continue with the running theme a little...

QOTD:  What is your favourite distance for a running race?  Why?  Would it change with a tri?

Richard



That is a great question Richard! 

For me, I like the longer stuff.  Half and full marathons and triathlon.  Although I have a good time doing all distances.  I have been leaning towards trying an ultra distance run sometime next year.
2011-04-20 6:34 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!

Yes, I am stoked. The actual watt output for the test was 323.  They do some math ...I think they drink 5%.  If so that would put me at 305-306. That would be the highest ever on a CT-based test.  I actually tested at 305 in a lab at the university last fall after my HIM.  That would mean my fitness was back to or exceeds where it was at the end of last year.  This early in the season, that would be huge.  I also tested at 13% body fat last year, which is considered lean. I had just 8 pounds to convert to muscle or lose to make 10%, which is the lowest they suggest for endurance athletes. Since then I dropped from a 34 waist to a 33. So I think I'm there.  All good. 

I'm no expert on the bike but I've learned a couple of things in the last 6 years, especially the last two that I've been coached by Vision Quest. When I retire, I am thinking of getting certified at the basic level of USAT coaching and help folks with weight problems and folks farther along on the age spectrum to use triathlon and bikes to get in shape.   

Sorry I can't identify with the mind argument between alcohol and exercise.  I quit alcohol when it was killing me 22.5 years ago.  Never have looked back.

My favorite run is the one I'm doing at the end of a triathlon.   I loved the half marathon in the HIM last fall.  Great distance. Far enough to enjoy, not far enough to kill me.  

You'll have a great day.

Ice.



2011-04-20 8:00 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
GoGoGo - 2011-04-20 5:33 AM

To continue with the running theme a little...

QOTD:  What is your favourite distance for a running race?  Why?  Would it change with a tri?

Richard

10K - I don't run fast so I'm bad at the 5K distance and 10K just seems to be a sweet spot for me. I can run it at a good pace and not loose steam at the end. My running speeds don't seem to change much during a tri (keep in mind I've only done sprints)



Edited by acv 2011-04-20 8:01 AM
2011-04-20 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
IceManScott - 2011-04-20 5:34 AM

Yes, I am stoked. The actual watt output for the test was 323.  They do some math ...I think they drink 5%.  If so that would put me at 305-306. That would be the highest ever on a CT-based test.  I actually tested at 305 in a lab at the university last fall after my HIM.  That would mean my fitness was back to or exceeds where it was at the end of last year.  This early in the season, that would be huge.  I also tested at 13% body fat last year, which is considered lean. I had just 8 pounds to convert to muscle or lose to make 10%, which is the lowest they suggest for endurance athletes. Since then I dropped from a 34 waist to a 33. So I think I'm there.  All good. 

I'm no expert on the bike but I've learned a couple of things in the last 6 years, especially the last two that I've been coached by Vision Quest. When I retire, I am thinking of getting certified at the basic level of USAT coaching and help folks with weight problems and folks farther along on the age spectrum to use triathlon and bikes to get in shape.   

Sorry I can't identify with the mind argument between alcohol and exercise.  I quit alcohol when it was killing me 22.5 years ago.  Never have looked back.

My favorite run is the one I'm doing at the end of a triathlon.   I loved the half marathon in the HIM last fall.  Great distance. Far enough to enjoy, not far enough to kill me.  

You'll have a great day.

Ice.



HUH? All that stuff is way over my head...

So favorite distance...Not sure I have one at this point. Most of the time it just all feels hard. Which is not to say that I don't sometimes have a fantastic run, but I don't know that there is a race distance I really love. I do really love the whole "feel" of a race. Any kind of race. I'm thinking that I could grow to like the 1/2 marathon, if I keep up my miles. I have to say being the social person (read talker) that I am I wish that less people wore ipods and that more people were "talky" I love to enjoy running and talking (gasping) to people as they/you pass. But I'm sure there are more people out there that just want to run their race and not be bothered.
2011-04-20 8:07 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
acv - 2011-04-19 3:12 PM
marvintpa - 2011-04-19 1:14 PM

Anyone care to chime in with their swim speed secret?

Wondering what the one item is that has helped you get faster.

I'm   s.... l....o....w..., to the tune of 20 min for 750m.

I've had a few lessons which have helped (was over 23 min when I started), but still a long way to go.

You might want to check this post out:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=249043&posts=1&start=1

 

Did anyone have time time to watch this video? If you didn't it's really worth watching it. I'd love to hear some comments on waht was presented in the video.

2011-04-20 8:24 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
IceManScott - 2011-04-20 7:34 AM

Yes, I am stoked. The actual watt output for the test was 323.  They do some math ...I think they drink 5%.  If so that would put me at 305-306. That would be the highest ever on a CT-based test.  I actually tested at 305 in a lab at the university last fall after my HIM.  That would mean my fitness was back to or exceeds where it was at the end of last year.  This early in the season, that would be huge.  I also tested at 13% body fat last year, which is considered lean. I had just 8 pounds to convert to muscle or lose to make 10%, which is the lowest they suggest for endurance athletes. Since then I dropped from a 34 waist to a 33. So I think I'm there.  All good. 

I'm no expert on the bike but I've learned a couple of things in the last 6 years, especially the last two that I've been coached by Vision Quest. When I retire, I am thinking of getting certified at the basic level of USAT coaching and help folks with weight problems and folks farther along on the age spectrum to use triathlon and bikes to get in shape.   

Sorry I can't identify with the mind argument between alcohol and exercise.  I quit alcohol when it was killing me 22.5 years ago.  Never have looked back.

My favorite run is the one I'm doing at the end of a triathlon.   I loved the half marathon in the HIM last fall.  Great distance. Far enough to enjoy, not far enough to kill me.  

You'll have a great day.

Ice.



Don't sell yourself short, I am sure you have learned plenty over the years of riding!

I have been watching Ice's logs for over a year, since he has a coach that he gives his training info to, his logs don't have a lot of detail, but one thing you will see is consistancy.  I don't recall seeing too many missed training days, and he works hard when the plan calls for it and recovers when that is what is prescribed.  It has obviously paid off with success for him.

Not trying to put you on the spot Scott, but your bike results are a very good example of the value of having a plan and following it consistantly!
2011-04-20 8:25 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
acv - 2011-04-20 9:07 AM
acv - 2011-04-19 3:12 PM
marvintpa - 2011-04-19 1:14 PM

Anyone care to chime in with their swim speed secret?

Wondering what the one item is that has helped you get faster.

I'm   s.... l....o....w..., to the tune of 20 min for 750m.

I've had a few lessons which have helped (was over 23 min when I started), but still a long way to go.

You might want to check this post out:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=249043&posts=1&start=1

 

Did anyone have time time to watch this video? If you didn't it's really worth watching it. I'd love to hear some comments on waht was presented in the video.



I am planning on watching it, just haven't had a chance yet.  Hopefully tonight!


2011-04-20 8:33 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!

It's a very good video, a little short on details but even a 40 min clip isn't nearly long enough for that, I suppose. I've been going through a number of his other YouTube videos trying to get more detail but they're just snippets from what I've found so far.

With the aid of a coach I've been doing (at least I think I've been doing) a number of the things he recommends. He suggests lower turbulence but doesn't mention how to achieve it. The relaxed hand has potential.

I was hoping to get the opinions of the amateurs here as to what their light bulb moment was, as opposed to a professional coach on this occasion. I'm guessing we lowly amateurs think differently and have a different mindset than the pros.

2011-04-20 8:36 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!

What is my favorite run distance?

Don't know I have only ran 1 5k. Ask me again after my HM!  I really enjoy training for the HM though and I think I will like it better than a 5k because there is more thinking/running smart involved instead of just going all out for half an hour.

I have my long run today, a little worried about it as I had a hard bike yesterday and then "decided" not to eat dinner (I don't know if a couple of chicken nuggets and jelly beans count).

2011-04-20 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!

Why is it the one non-windy day (winds under 30mph), I have to run and not bike Frown.

We have been joking here when we get a day that is calm the National Weather Service issues a non-wind advisory!

Oh well - tommorrow the winds are only supposed to be around 15mph, maybe I can get out then.

2011-04-20 8:53 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
kenj - 2011-04-20 6:16 AM
KeriKadi - 2011-04-19 10:35 PM

I'm procrastinating. Somebody tell me I should go get on the trainer instead of having a Mike's Hard Lemonade.

 



Who won?

Got on the trainer and didn't have a Mike's. Wink Yay Me!

 

2011-04-20 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
acv - 2011-04-20 8:00 AM
GoGoGo - 2011-04-20 5:33 AM

To continue with the running theme a little...

QOTD:  What is your favourite distance for a running race?  Why?  Would it change with a tri?

Richard

10K - I don't run fast so I'm bad at the 5K distance and 10K just seems to be a sweet spot for me. I can run it at a good pace and not loose steam at the end. My running speeds don't seem to change much during a tri (keep in mind I've only done sprints)

I guess this. But not as a race. My favorite distances to run in training are 4 miles and 6 miles, not sure why. I have yet to find a favorite distance while in a race. Wink Probably the shortest path to the beer tent.



2011-04-20 9:08 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
marvintpa - 2011-04-20 9:33 AM

It's a very good video, a little short on details but even a 40 min clip isn't nearly long enough for that, I suppose. I've been going through a number of his other YouTube videos trying to get more detail but they're just snippets from what I've found so far.

With the aid of a coach I've been doing (at least I think I've been doing) a number of the things he recommends. He suggests lower turbulence but doesn't mention how to achieve it. The relaxed hand has potential.

I was hoping to get the opinions of the amateurs here as to what their light bulb moment was, as opposed to a professional coach on this occasion. I'm guessing we lowly amateurs think differently and have a different mindset than the pros.



Like I said, I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but I know the author has made a pretty good living selling books, dvd sets, and teaching classes to adults learning to swim.  I have read the books and attended a short class that followed some of his principles, but wasn't long enough.  Total Immersion courses are quite popular if you find one nearby you might want to check it out.

There is a follow up post with a link to his blog that you may find interesting and helpful as well.  Here is the link.

One thing I find interesting is that some of swimming friends that have swam competitively since they were kids don't agree with all of his teachings, while some other friends that began swimming as adults have taken his weekend courses show tremendous improvement and swear it is the only way to learn.
2011-04-20 9:19 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
kenj - 2011-04-20 10:08 AM
marvintpa - 2011-04-20 9:33 AM

It's a very good video, a little short on details but even a 40 min clip isn't nearly long enough for that, I suppose. I've been going through a number of his other YouTube videos trying to get more detail but they're just snippets from what I've found so far.

With the aid of a coach I've been doing (at least I think I've been doing) a number of the things he recommends. He suggests lower turbulence but doesn't mention how to achieve it. The relaxed hand has potential.

I was hoping to get the opinions of the amateurs here as to what their light bulb moment was, as opposed to a professional coach on this occasion. I'm guessing we lowly amateurs think differently and have a different mindset than the pros.



Like I said, I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but I know the author has made a pretty good living selling books, dvd sets, and teaching classes to adults learning to swim.  I have read the books and attended a short class that followed some of his principles, but wasn't long enough.  Total Immersion courses are quite popular if you find one nearby you might want to check it out.

There is a follow up post with a link to his blog that you may find interesting and helpful as well.  Here is the link.

One thing I find interesting is that some of swimming friends that have swam competitively since they were kids don't agree with all of his teachings, while some other friends that began swimming as adults have taken his weekend courses show tremendous improvement and swear it is the only way to learn.

Ken,

I think that is a good point. He doesn't really teach in the tradition sense.  Some people think it's a little gimicky but you can really make some huge improvements very quickly.  I thought some points were really great. Going faster in water doesn't always mean swimimg faster or harder.

2011-04-20 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!

KeriKadi - 2011-04-20 9:57 AM 

 Probably the shortest path to the beer tent.

Yes!  This!  Lol!

Saturday, May 14th - I am running in a Pub Run.  We run to the first bar, chug a beer, run to the second bar, chug a beer...  It is about 2.6 miles (or was it 3?) and 6 beers.  Then there is food, festivities, and more beer afterwords.  They give out trophies to the top three men and top three women.  It BLOWS my mind how the winners can run and chug beers so fast.  They must get on the TM with a six pack and practice.  Anyway... I am getting off topic.  Drinker with a running problem.

So far, I have only done 5k's.  I'd like to try a 10k.  I honestly don't ever see myself doing much more than 10k.  I think I would rather do the shorter distances and work on getting faster.  I would like to do more trail runs.  There is a series in a park nearby that they do every summer that involves running along a trail and through grass.  I would like to get better at that.  I am always supprised at how much drag grass creates.

2011-04-20 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
KeriKadi - 2011-04-20 9:57 AM
acv - 2011-04-20 8:00 AM
GoGoGo - 2011-04-20 5:33 AM

To continue with the running theme a little...

QOTD:  What is your favourite distance for a running race?  Why?  Would it change with a tri?

Richard

10K - I don't run fast so I'm bad at the 5K distance and 10K just seems to be a sweet spot for me. I can run it at a good pace and not loose steam at the end. My running speeds don't seem to change much during a tri (keep in mind I've only done sprints)

I guess this. But not as a race. My favorite distances to run in training are 4 miles and 6 miles, not sure why. I have yet to find a favorite distance while in a race. Wink Probably the shortest path to the beer tent.

Havn't been to a race with a beer tent yet - but I bet I would do more races if they had them.Wink

2011-04-20 9:25 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
scraver - 2011-04-20 10:21 AM

KeriKadi - 2011-04-20 9:57 AM 

 Probably the shortest path to the beer tent.

Yes!  This!  Lol!

Saturday, May 14th - I am running in a Pub Run.  We run to the first bar, chug a beer, run to the second bar, chug a beer...  It is about 2.6 miles (or was it 3?) and 6 beers.  Then there is food, festivities, and more beer afterwords.  They give out trophies to the top three men and top three women.  It BLOWS my mind how the winners can run and chug beers so fast.  They must get on the TM with a six pack and practice.  Anyway... I am getting off topic.  Drinker with a running problem.

So far, I have only done 5k's.  I'd like to try a 10k.  I honestly don't ever see myself doing much more than 10k.  I think I would rather do the shorter distances and work on getting faster.  I would like to do more trail runs.  There is a series in a park nearby that they do every summer that involves running along a trail and through grass.  I would like to get better at that.  I am always supprised at how much drag grass creates.

Speaking of chugging. I have yet to figure out how to chug water at water stops on the course. If I really need it I have to stop. I just haven't figured out how to drink and run without choking on the water.

Any helpful tips for this one?



2011-04-20 9:32 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
acv - 2011-04-20 10:25 AM

Speaking of chugging. I have yet to figure out how to chug water at water stops on the course. If I really need it I have to stop. I just haven't figured out how to drink and run without choking on the water.

Any helpful tips for this one?



Longer races, I walk to make sure I get enough, although lately I have been using Infinit and wearing my fuel belt.  Shorter races I just squeeze the top to create kind of a funnel.  It does take a little practice, if it is warm enough out, getting it all over me kind of helps cool off anyways.
2011-04-20 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
kenj - 2011-04-20 10:32 AM
acv - 2011-04-20 10:25 AM

Speaking of chugging. I have yet to figure out how to chug water at water stops on the course. If I really need it I have to stop. I just haven't figured out how to drink and run without choking on the water.

Any helpful tips for this one?



Longer races, I walk to make sure I get enough, although lately I have been using Infinit and wearing my fuel belt.  Shorter races I just squeeze the top to create kind of a funnel.  It does take a little practice, if it is warm enough out, getting it all over me kind of helps cool off anyways.

I used my nathan speed 2 (similar to the fuel belt) last year for running races and a lot during training. During a 10K last year I used it and was the only one with a hydration belt maybe it's a tri thing since we are more used to gear but I felt like fish out of water. I also noticed several people stopping to tie shoes I looked down at my yankz and just smiled to myself.

2011-04-20 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
I use a fuel belt.  Came in handy for the nutrition on the run of the HIM.  Dissolved GU and Hammer perpetuem.  I used water at rest stops.  I know what you mean about drinking on the go.  I've learned to hold the small bottle in my hand and sip now and then. 
2011-04-20 10:19 AM
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Subject: RE: kenj's group closed, training hard and having fun!!
shake-n-bake - 2011-04-19 4:43 PM

Viyoung - 2011-04-19 8:13 AM shake n bake, what kind of knee surgery did you have and how did you ease your way back into running?  Did it hurt when you started?

 

In the left knee I had a meniscus tear. with some cartledge damage on the top inner portion of the knee.. The surgeon removed and shaved the torn tissue and shaved the tear in the meniscus out..When starting PT I told the therapist that I was training for a triathlon, so she really incorporated exercises to help me progress and push the knee to its limits. They released me to run in May and I did my first event in June. The June event I had a little over a 10 min/mile average..my other events my run average was 8 to 9 min/mile averages..

Interesting, at the expense of sounding like a broken record, I had an ACL replacement at the end of December.  I'm starting to incorporate strength and balance training back into my workouts that I did in PT.  That seems to be helping.  Right now I can do 3 mins. of jogging (5.3 mph) within a 20 min walk/jog.  It's not the cardio that kicks me but the knee.  I'm hoping to build enough strength to actually put in a mile of straight running by the start of June.  That's my new goal.

good to hear that you were able to get back on your feet so soon after your surgery.  If someone else can do it, then that gives me hope.

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