Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Mentor Group-CLOSED (Page 10)

I need some help from the runners here. I have run very little since June due to an Achilles issue. I decided to start running again. Knowing I didn't want to hurt myself I started on Thursday with a 2 mile run/walk, about 50/50. No problems, felt OK.

Yesterday I thought I would do it again. Less than one minute in I tweak my hamstring. I did the same stretch as the day before. The weather was a bit cooler, high 40s.

So, how do I get back into running without injuring my hamstring, Achilles, or anything else. Is it not stretching properly, poor mechanics, not warming up enough or just the universe conspiring against me?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Stomach bug=No training

I was going to run that bit longer, today too.

Any tips for recovery please? I should be out for only 24hrs.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and tips on training for my first sprint tri.

Tomorrow is my first dip back into the pool.

I am going to do the Pate 22 week program from this site.  I will let you all know how it goes!

How about "rolling back time"?

Paul-get lots of fluids. Dehydration is your biggest worry. Feel better then get back at it.

Stuart-there is an article in this month's Triathlete magazine dealing specifically with stretches and some dynamic exercises to work the achilles. I agree with Rene on the foam roller/TriggerPoint work. I use the TriggerPoint Roller or my calves and hamstrings. I also use the TriggerPoint ball on knots in my hamstrings/glutes. A lacrosse ball works equally well on the hamstring knots and is cheaper. It can really work out a knot. I even keep one in the car and will sometimes stick one under my upper leg when driving and work it around a bit.

Brian-I'm not much help on the fit. Road bike and tri bike fit are different. On my tri bike (at least on the trainer) it seems a bit harder to push the same watts when I am down in aero position. But the aerodynamics of maintaining an aero position should trump any small reduction in power while riding aero.

Randy 

Welcome to Saturday afternoon!

I'm no help on the running aches and pains except do not ignore them!!  Foam roller is an excellent tool.  The theory behind it is to roll out the knots much in the same way a massage therapist would work them out.

I went to the pool today and tried some of Stuarts drills.  OMG

lap 1 per garmin was 200yd warm up (slow easy crawl)

lap 2 200yd with the tennis ball - talk about feeling awkward and clumsy.  I felt like I had no pull stroke!

lap 3-6 (shows no data because there's no arm movement but I used it for time) 200yd on my back for kick drill- felt great at first.  I was very relaxed on my back but when I went to crawl again I realized my legs were fried! LOL  Let me ask you kick, I was told that your heels should barely, if at all, come out of the water and all the kicking is done from the hips.  Is that the case for this drill too?  I always see people doing kicking drills making big splashes.

Lap 7 - I tried to do the pushup....but I could NOT get myself out of the water... I don't know if the sides of my pool are particularly high or if I'm really that weak.  I don't think I am but maybe.....

Lap 8 - Just some slow freestyle laps to cool down.

PHEW

I need to get into a routine.

Stuart-tried the tennis ball swim drill today. Really weird feeling/or lack of feeling. I've done a lot of fist drill work over the last year so I thought it would be similar. NOPE! The lack of any feedback from the hand during the pull was strange and it was much harder to swim with the balls as compared to fist. When I did a 50 swim after 50 with the tennis ball I felt like I was really able to engage on the pull. Thanks

Randy  

Stuart - my experience with the tennis balls was same as Randy's. 

With regards to the tennis balls I got a few "WTF" looks from people in the pool and had some interesting conversations about it.  My Lats are sore from doing wall pullups.  I would swim 100, do ten pullups, repeat.  The soreness didn't really kick in till later in the day many hours after I was done swimming.  On kicking, I am definitely faster kicking on my back then on my stomach.  This is also the first week I've gone completely without a kickboard.  Definitely requires more balance and I'm beginning to like this more and more.

Had a good swim this morning followed by a short run.  Tomorrow I have a long bike planned. 

Wishing everyone a great day! 

Paul - As others have said, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate.  Don't push back too soon, and come back easy not hard.

Stuart - That is a fairly large time away from running.  While I cannot help specifically with the achilles, I am a big believer in stretching and yoga.  There are many theories out there on stretching.  Some do not do it at all, and some sporadically at best.  I think the timing of the stretch, and depth of stretch are important.  For someone just getting back into running, I would suggest this:

Let's take your two mile run/walk workout.  Start the workout walking.  Walk for a 1/4 mile slowly increasing pace as you do.  At 1/4 mile start a slow jog.  Continue this for another 1/4 mile.  You should now be warm, with a slightly elevated heart rate.  Now you stretch.  Start at from your head or toes, your pick, and stretch all major muscle groups including neck, chest, and back.  Do NOT stretch to pain, only to tension, and be sure to breathe.   Should take you 5 to 10 mins.

After you have stretched start the main set of your run.  Building from a slow jog, reach a COMFORTABLE pace for 3/4 of a mile, slow to walk for two minutes, build your pace again to a COMFORTABLE jog for another 3/4 mile, then slow your pace to a very easy jog for 1/4 mile.   Now repeat the stretching process, and then walk 1/4 mile cool down.  Continue this, gradually building distance for main set as you progress. IMHO most of us do not start or end our workouts properly.  We hit the pavement whether on a run or bike, and immediately go for whatever target HR or pace we have in mind.  The body doesn't work this way.  Warm it up, and cool it down.

Later in the evening, you can take a walk, or an easy spin on trainer, and then follow with more light stretching and foam rolling.  Getting older is a MFer, and you are coming back from an injury (just like I am), do it smart, and you will have much better results.  Hope this helps, just my opinion.

I am finishing up what I consider my first good week back on the horse.  Had a 35/5 brick today with my coaches group, and have an easy 8 mile run on the schedule for tomorrow.  Have a great night everyone.

Randy – the use of tennis balls vs fist is significant.  The buoyancy of the tennis balls requires some effort on the down stroke but since you can’t use your hands you must engage the arms more.  Try it for a while and I think you will find you get more power on the down pull.  Also, because of that same buoyancy some people find their hand recovery on the back end of the stroke gets a little faster because once you are past perpendicular down with your arms the ball will pull your arm to the surface.

Jimmy – I used to get a lot of weird looks with the tennis balls but now they all know I am crazy so no big deal.  Have you figured out the slight dolphin kick on the pullups yet?  As for the kicking, it sounds like you are getting it.  Kicking on your back will generally be shallower and cut down on wasted motion.  That will result in more power per kick, even when kicking slower. The balance issue is spot on.  As I said earlier, the kick is more about balance and rhythm than propulsion. Once you get real comfortable with smoothly moving through the water with only a kick and no kickboard you will find your longer swims will require much less overall effort.  You will swim faster and feel less fatigued. 

Thanks for all the feedback on my running question.  I have not tried a foam roller but certainly worth giving it a go.  I do stretch religiously because of the issues I have had.  I have done yoga in the past so it may be time to resurrect that part of my training again.  

I think I have the Achilles issue figured out but this new hamstring problem is frustrating.  I will give the suggested workout above a try and see how that goes.  I know I have to get this figured out if I am to make any progress for 2013.

Enjoy your rest of the weekend.

Paging Stuart

ok guys I need some help putting together a training plan.  I went through the plans here and I can't seem to make one fit.  I don't mind paying for one if you think the pay plans will fit me better.

Here's my deal, I can't run (yet) because I'm waiting for this stubborn stress fracture to heal.  And I'm guessing it'll be at least another 8 weeks.  So I can swim and bike.  I would like to swim 3-5 days a week and mix in some biking.  The plans here all seem to include some running and the swim times are not as long as I'd like.  I guess I'm at a loss where to start.  

For swim - how often, how long and what types of drills?

for bike - how often, how long (I can figure out the types I think).

Thanks for your help!

Randee - Can you provide a little more info.  I am still getting to know the group, so I may have missed some stuff.  WHere is the stress fracture?  What and when is your first event?  I took a look at your logs, but you just starting logging, so it is tough to judge your fitness level on the bike.  What are your comfortable distances?  Do you use a trainer, or ride outside most of the time?  If we know that sort of thing we can help a bit more.

Bennet

I rest my case....  

Randee-on the training plan I guess it depends on how many hours a week you have to train or the number of workouts you want to do each week. I've been unable to run the last 6 weeks so have been on a bike/swim focus.

Randy

thanks - I'm totally new to training with structure too so I don't even know what info I needed to give! LOL

Bike is not an issue for distances.  An average distance ride in the summer is 50+ and I did 3 centuries in September.  However, riding these days will be inside.

I just started swimming in August and I pretty much go for time right now.  I go 30 to 45 minutes depending on what I have available for time that day.  The pool is 17 minutes from my house so that cuts down on the time I have to swim.  Since the bike is in my basement I have much more time for that.  Weekends these days are either skiing or open for swim/bike.  And to add insult to injury I'm an accountant so February to April gets really tight for time.  The good news is my first event isn't until June so I know I have plenty of time.  

Stress fracture is tibial and I currently use a bone stimulator 10+ hours a day.  It's really frustrating but my doctor seems to think I'll be running again.

And to answer Randy's question - how much time do I want to train?  I set my personal goals to do something active 6 days a week.  So maybe set training for 4 days and anything extra is bonus?  On training days I can do 1 hour in the am and multiple in the PM (for now until work picks up) and then I'll have to play it by ear I guess.

Thanks again for the help.  I look forward to being able to contribute BACK someday soon too

The tennis ball drill will feel odd at first.  Focus on keeping good arm position and let your arms push the water.  The whole intent of this drill is to get more push from your stroke than just from your hands. 

People making 'big splashes' when doing kicking drills are wasting energy.  You are correct that your heels should not come out of the water.  Don't get sucked in to watching Michael Phelps, he is a sprinter, not a distance swimmer.  Go to Youtube and look at longer races like the 1500 and the amount of 'splash' you will see is much less, especially as the race goes on.  Better yet, look at Diana Nyad swim her ultra distances...zero splash.  For this drill, NO splash.

Pulling your body out of the water and then pressing it all the way up does take some upper body strength.  If you are having trouble doing it just keep at it.  You will find that once you can do it you will have more arm strength for the freestyle. Of the three events swimming is the one that requires the most upper strength.

I would have posted only the really easy drills but I don't know any!

Keep at it and you will be fine!

No tennis balls for me -- couldn't make it to the pool as their holiday schedule conflicts with kid bedtime.

But -- just set a new PR for run endurance -- 65 nonstop minutes on the treadmill.    Woohoo!  And my wife did her first 60 minute run earlier today so the treadmill is earning its keep today.  (As is Apple TV...)

Everyone else seems to provide updates in the morning -- am I the only evening exerciser in the bunch?    I was better about waking up early in the summer, but these days the sun doesn't get up until 8:30am (and down at 4:30pm) -- doesn't do much for motivation!