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2010-04-21 10:18 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!

Couple of tips I have learned (but not mastered by any means) for the bike:

1.  Key to the bike is to be at about 90-100 RPM's on average for the entire ride.  Reason being is that you can recover your heartrate for the run from spinning too high, but you cannot recover your legs for the run if spinning too slow.

2.  Switch into a lower gear, much easier, for higher RPM spinning prior to starting a hill (might want to do 100-110 RPM's).  Try to keep the RPM's up going all the way up the hill (in that easier gear), and when you hit the top of the hill DON'T stop spinning.  Continue spinning at that easier gear and a higher RPM rate for another 10-15 seconds before switching gears.  It will help flush out the lactic acid that build up going up the hill (and my coach tells me, psychs out the other riders).  It is much easier to spin higher going up a hill than slower.

3.  When switching to a new gear, that may be harder, your body takes about 15-20 second to acclimate to that new gear.  So it may be hard at the beginning, but your body will accept it if you give it time, like if you are going up a long slow gradient hill.

Last year at my first race I probably was at about 60-75 RPMs for the entire race  and when I got to the top of the hill (doing an extremely slow RPM, higher gear) I stop and the lactic acid built up and I couldn't recover for another 10-20 seconds.  Good thing it was an aquabike, otherwise I would not have been able to do the run because I blew myself up on the bike . . . LITERALLY.

Hope this helps




2010-04-21 11:21 AM
in reply to: #2770190

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Royal(PITA)
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Great points, Carrie!

I am physically and mentally ready to get back at it....going to do a short swim tonight and again tomorrow with a lesson Friday.  Hope for a short run tomorrow evening too.
This weekend will be kinda crazy....Miss Thing (my 14 year old) is in the school show and it will be both Friday night and Saturday afternoon.  I am attending the Saturday afternoon showing so I guess I will run when I get up Saturday, go to the dhow then if the weather is nice go ride my bike...or force myself on the trainer....
2010-04-21 11:28 AM
in reply to: #2805698

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
carrie639 - 2010-04-20 8:29 PM OK newbie runner here again . . . does anyone else hate running on the roads???  Wanted to run some miles today but not have to drive to a trail to run on so I ran by my house through an industrial park.  I realized more now than the first time I ran it, that those roads are curved from the middle to the curb.  So if you are running on the sides you are always running on one side of both shoes!!!  I ran against the traffic on the way back more towards the middle.

Shins hurt a little tonight . . gonna go grab a cool pack.

Happy training everyone.


Nope, sorry.  Trail running is a blast, but I enjoy running on the road too.  And on the track.

Ah screw it:  I just freaking love running.  Did 5 miles at an easy 8:42 pace in perfect weather and had a big grin on my face the entire time.

Now to just become decent at swimming and biking...LOL.

And yes, definitely ice the shin splints.  Even more effective for me is doing ice RUBS:  Fill a paper cup 2/3 of the way with water, let it freeze.  Tear the top of the cup off when frozen and rub up and down the shin for 10 minutes.
 
2010-04-21 1:31 PM
in reply to: #2807188

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Master
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
An easy 8:423 pace???  That is like and all out sprint for me . . . with time I guess.

I got into the 9's last night and was like, wwwoooo slow it down . . .
2010-04-21 2:06 PM
in reply to: #2807616

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
carrie639 - 2010-04-21 2:31 PM An easy 8:423 pace???  That is like and all out sprint for me . . . with time I guess.

I got into the 9's last night and was like, wwwoooo slow it down . . .


LOL...well it was SUPPOSED to be a 9:00 pace, but everything just came together - it's a rest week so I have tons of energy, the weather was perfect, and the training is paying off.  I was happy because it FELT like a 9:00 pace.

Don't sweat it - I spent my entire first season running just trying to break a 30:00 5K.  By the end of the next I had a sub-25 PR.  Just run lots, run often.  I tell myself the same when I'm grumbling at my 15MPH bike pace or 2:40 swim.  It will come with time. 
2010-04-21 2:29 PM
in reply to: #2805545

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
QueenZipp - 2010-04-20 6:54 PM
scotty930 - 2010-04-20 3:18 PM
alexenafi - 2010-04-20 2:31 PM Sounds like you guys are all doing great. Well done!!!!


The weather is warming up here (Toronto) and so I wish I could get out on my bike. Did a nice walk Sunday. Pain is not as constant but I know I have to hold off on the training for a bit longer. Now that I'm over my cold I'm going to get into the pool. Give that a go. At least I will get a cardio workout.



Its gotta take a lot  a will power to keep yourself from doing that bike ride. I don't know if I would have that will power if it ever came to some kind of injury. I am glad your staying positive! Hopefully you keep making progress with your recovery.

Yeah, I'm with you there, Scotty.  I have a hard time not training......



Yeah it's not easy, esp with the bike sitting on the trainer sulking in the corner.
Just don't want to blow the whole season. But want to get some good cardio. And I have a sweet P2C as well.

Bike question. I'm super slow. I do get up to 90 cadence but I'm obviously in too low a gear in order to maintain that. What do I do? Switch to a lower cadence and gear (say 60 ish) and then build that gear up to 90 cadence? This is what one of my pro friends coaches told me to do.

Thoughts?

Fi


2010-04-21 6:26 PM
in reply to: #2807885

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Master
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Just my thoughts and I can ride longer doing it, but switch to an easier gear and ride the higher RPM.  Unless you are doing specific training at the lower RPM, train at the higher RPM.  Your run will thank you.  It is kind of like they say for running, if you train at a lower HR then you can probably run forever, but you can't run tempo forever, or hills.

You still do specific training in lower gears, or harder gears, but when you have 2, 3, 4 hour rides, you want to be in a gear that you can hold forever.  If you go hard the whole time, you won't get able to get off the bike and run.
2010-04-21 7:47 PM
in reply to: #2770190

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
A lot of good questions here today and a lot of good information given already.  I'm no cycling expert, but I'll do my best.

Carrie was right with the general consensus of of keeping around 90-100 rpms.  This of course, will vary a little from individual to individual.  Find what you are comfortable with.  Me, when I'm going at a 100 rpms I feel like my legs are just flying around, so I'm usually probably 80-90.  It hasn't been detrimental at short course racing, but my HIM runs have left something to be desired although I'm not sure that's cadence related.

How to get better/faster?  Well, the easy answer is ride lots.  It's amazing what riding 4 times a week will do for a person.  Once you have a sufficient base built up interval training may help a lot too.  I will vary mine, anywhere from 3-15 minutes of a hard effort (near or at race pace) followed by an equivalent rest period (or less if you feel you can get away with it).  At the other end of the spectrum, training in a bigger gear can be beneficial as well.  This can be done easily by riding hills and letting the cadence drop to 50-60 rpms, or choosing a big enough gear to do the same in the flats.  I would keep these intervals to 5 minutes or less and if you are prone to knee problems you may want to avoid them as well.  To summarize simply the first example is a low resistance/high rpm approach to building endurance and the second is a high resistance/low rpm way to build strength/force, and both are key to becoming a better cyclist.
2010-04-21 8:01 PM
in reply to: #2805862

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Kman2011 - 2010-04-20 8:35 PM Got out on the bike this morning and averaged about 18 miles per hour for 30ish miles, sunday  average 17.8 for around 42 miles,different courses, but hills and wind were similar.Frankly, I'm frustrated that I wasn't able to increasemy speed over a shorter distance. Does  this type of stat hold true for anyone else? 

Also can anyone suggest a good resource for review of nutrition available on the bike.  I've seen the heed discussion above, but I'm completely confused so, I usually just mix up some Gatorade and  roll.  I've tried GU in the past and did not care for it.  SO i need a resource that details the options, but also a general rule for nutrition on the bike, in the past some BT users have suggested 250-300 calories an hour, but I have no idea where that number came from


I'll see what I can dig up as a sort of nutritional guide.  There are many many options out there and it really does take some experimentation to find out what works for you.  If gatorade works well for you, then there may be really no reason to change it.  I will say that I am a big fan of gatorade endurance as it has more electrolytes in it than the regular stuff.

Check out companies like Gu, Clif, Cytomax, Hammer Nutrition, honey stinger, power bar, Accelerade, endurox, Infinit, to name just a few.

I think the 250-300 calorie recommendation stems from the fact that a typical person (160 lbs) can only process 250-300 calories per hour.  So the recommendation is to take in only as much as you can process since the rest will sit in your stomach and can lead to GI issues.  The real truth is that under the stress of race conditions your body is probably not processing things that efficiently anyway, which is why many people can get by on less (myself included).
2010-04-21 9:23 PM
in reply to: #2806927

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
carrie639 - 2010-04-21 10:18 AM

Couple of tips I have learned (but not mastered by any means) for the bike:

1.  Key to the bike is to be at about 90-100 RPM's on average for the entire ride.  Reason being is that you can recover your heartrate for the run from spinning too high, but you cannot recover your legs for the run if spinning too slow.

2.  Switch into a lower gear, much easier, for higher RPM spinning prior to starting a hill (might want to do 100-110 RPM's).  Try to keep the RPM's up going all the way up the hill (in that easier gear), and when you hit the top of the hill DON'T stop spinning.  Continue spinning at that easier gear and a higher RPM rate for another 10-15 seconds before switching gears.  It will help flush out the lactic acid that build up going up the hill (and my coach tells me, psychs out the other riders).  It is much easier to spin higher going up a hill than slower.

3.  When switching to a new gear, that may be harder, your body takes about 15-20 second to acclimate to that new gear.  So it may be hard at the beginning, but your body will accept it if you give it time, like if you are going up a long slow gradient hill.

Last year at my first race I probably was at about 60-75 RPMs for the entire race  and when I got to the top of the hill (doing an extremely slow RPM, higher gear) I stop and the lactic acid built up and I couldn't recover for another 10-20 seconds.  Good thing it was an aquabike, otherwise I would not have been able to do the run because I blew myself up on the bike . . . LITERALLY.

Hope this helps




You know I have heard about those things before, but I have never really actually thought about most of those things in depth really. I do try to spin at a higher cadence and I do actually shift to an easier gear when going up a hill, but now with other things that people have said, it makes some sense that doing these things helps save your legs a little for the run.
2010-04-21 9:25 PM
in reply to: #2807885

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
alexenafi - 2010-04-21 2:29 PM
QueenZipp - 2010-04-20 6:54 PM
scotty930 - 2010-04-20 3:18 PM
alexenafi - 2010-04-20 2:31 PM Sounds like you guys are all doing great. Well done!!!!


The weather is warming up here (Toronto) and so I wish I could get out on my bike. Did a nice walk Sunday. Pain is not as constant but I know I have to hold off on the training for a bit longer. Now that I'm over my cold I'm going to get into the pool. Give that a go. At least I will get a cardio workout.



Its gotta take a lot  a will power to keep yourself from doing that bike ride. I don't know if I would have that will power if it ever came to some kind of injury. I am glad your staying positive! Hopefully you keep making progress with your recovery.

Yeah, I'm with you there, Scotty.  I have a hard time not training......



Yeah it's not easy, esp with the bike sitting on the trainer sulking in the corner.
Just don't want to blow the whole season. But want to get some good cardio. And I have a sweet P2C as well.

Bike question. I'm super slow. I do get up to 90 cadence but I'm obviously in too low a gear in order to maintain that. What do I do? Switch to a lower cadence and gear (say 60 ish) and then build that gear up to 90 cadence? This is what one of my pro friends coaches told me to do.

Thoughts?

Fi


Would you mind if I borrowed you P2C? At least then it won't sit there  and keep giving you evil stares and keep tempting you to ride it!!!


2010-04-22 8:50 AM
in reply to: #2770190

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Hey folks, I'm heading out around noon to head to Galveston for the Lonestar 70.3.  I'm not sure how much I will be on BT the next few days, so I will just say - Good luck to all who are racing this weekend.  And for those who aren't racing - Happy training.
2010-04-22 8:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
disturbed275 - 2010-04-21 7:47 PM
Carrie was right with the general consensus of of keeping around 90-100 rpms.  This of course, will vary a little from individual to individual.  Find what you are comfortable with.  Me, when I'm going at a 100 rpms I feel like my legs are just flying around, so I'm usually probably 80-90.  It hasn't been detrimental at short course racing, but my HIM runs have left something to be desired although I'm not sure that's cadence related.

.


I was told that my "less than desired" runs at the HIM distance are due to improper nutrition on the bike.  When I look back, this may be true, at least for me.  In the past, I have not drank that much on the bike.  I think in my first HIM I finished one bottle for a 3 1/2 hour ride.  I've been setting my watch lately to drink every 10 minutes.  We'll see how this weekend goes with better nutrition. 

So, it could be the rpms, but it could also be a nutrition thing.
2010-04-22 9:00 AM
in reply to: #2809553

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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
bar92 - 2010-04-22 9:50 AM Hey folks, I'm heading out around noon to head to Galveston for the Lonestar 70.3.  I'm not sure how much I will be on BT the next few days, so I will just say - Good luck to all who are racing this weekend.  And for those who aren't racing - Happy training.


AHHH!!  Good luck!  Can't wait to read your race report. 
2010-04-22 9:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
bar92 - 2010-04-22 6:50 AM Hey folks, I'm heading out around noon to head to Galveston for the Lonestar 70.3.  I'm not sure how much I will be on BT the next few days, so I will just say - Good luck to all who are racing this weekend.  And for those who aren't racing - Happy training.


Best of luck at your race!  Looking forward to reading the recap.
2010-04-22 10:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
bar92 - 2010-04-22 8:53 AM
disturbed275 - 2010-04-21 7:47 PM
Carrie was right with the general consensus of of keeping around 90-100 rpms.  This of course, will vary a little from individual to individual.  Find what you are comfortable with.  Me, when I'm going at a 100 rpms I feel like my legs are just flying around, so I'm usually probably 80-90.  It hasn't been detrimental at short course racing, but my HIM runs have left something to be desired although I'm not sure that's cadence related.

.


I was told that my "less than desired" runs at the HIM distance are due to improper nutrition on the bike.  When I look back, this may be true, at least for me.  In the past, I have not drank that much on the bike.  I think in my first HIM I finished one bottle for a 3 1/2 hour ride.  I've been setting my watch lately to drink every 10 minutes.  We'll see how this weekend goes with better nutrition. 

So, it could be the rpms, but it could also be a nutrition thing.


I've heard both.  Actually from talking to a lot of HIM and IM triathletes, from what I can tell, everyone seems to think that if you blow up on the run it's because you screwed up somewhere on the bike.  Messing up nutrition and killing your legs on the bike (ie mashing at low cadence at 50-60 rpm, instead of spinning at high cadence around 90) are both things that people keep telling me will cause you to blow up on the run. 

When I did my first tri, I blew up on the run, but it was because I killed my legs (it was a 600m swim, 17 mile bike, and a 4 mile run - probably too short to be a nutrition thing).  It was a really hilly course and I didn't really know how to use my gears so I would just mash up the hills and fly down them.  After that, my legs didn't really want to run :-p  So now, I've really been practicing keeping my cadence high.  I found that my natural cadence (on flats) is around 80-85, and I really have to concentrate to keep it consistently at 90 or higher...  though if I hit 100, I'll switch it to a harder gear so that it goes back to 90.  That helped me get faster for each of my races last year (though I'm still slow, so there's definitely a lot more room for improvement!)


2010-04-22 10:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
G'morning

I was going to either go for a quick spin on the trainer or go to a yoga class before work, but I always forget how long it takes me to get ready to leave for a trip.  I double and triple checked that I have everything I could possibly need for my race on Saturday.  Then I got everything packed up and ready to go.  I'm taking the train out to my parents' house in the suburbs tonight, and we're heading down to Louisville with some of my friends from my running group tomorrow morning.  We should get there in time for packet pickup, checking out the expo, then going to dinner. 

Not sure if I'll have internet while I'm in Louisville, so if I don't check in again, have a good weekend everyone!  Briana & anyone else who's racing this weekend, good luck!!
2010-04-22 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Good luck to our weekend racers!

In & out of traffic court in under 5 minutes...gotta love that!
2010-04-22 7:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
bar92 - 2010-04-22 8:50 AM Hey folks, I'm heading out around noon to head to Galveston for the Lonestar 70.3.  I'm not sure how much I will be on BT the next few days, so I will just say - Good luck to all who are racing this weekend.  And for those who aren't racing - Happy training.


Goodluck!!! Hopefully the weather will be beautiful.
2010-04-22 7:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
yogachic - 2010-04-22 10:53 AM G'morning

I was going to either go for a quick spin on the trainer or go to a yoga class before work, but I always forget how long it takes me to get ready to leave for a trip.  I double and triple checked that I have everything I could possibly need for my race on Saturday.  Then I got everything packed up and ready to go.  I'm taking the train out to my parents' house in the suburbs tonight, and we're heading down to Louisville with some of my friends from my running group tomorrow morning.  We should get there in time for packet pickup, checking out the expo, then going to dinner. 

Not sure if I'll have internet while I'm in Louisville, so if I don't check in again, have a good weekend everyone!  Briana & anyone else who's racing this weekend, good luck!!


Goodluck with your marathon!!!
2010-04-22 8:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Good luck to all the racers this weekend!

I have my last indoor tri this weekend, but dealing with a couple of injuries right now (I know 2 weeks from my race) so I might take it easy and not try to knock it out of the park.


2010-04-22 8:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
So question for the nutrition gurus:  I have decline in performance for the last several weeks.  It is about the time I got sick of eating protein bars and at that point was probably not getting enough protein per day.  It was like I was able to work hard and long and my body handled it just fine, but as soon as I stopped the extra protein with the bars, things went south.  Does that make sense to people???

Well, I got a smoothie maker and bought a canaster of whey protein . . . totally yummy!!!!!

Let me know your thoughts
2010-04-23 6:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
carrie639 - 2010-04-22 8:39 PM So question for the nutrition gurus:  I have decline in performance for the last several weeks.  It is about the time I got sick of eating protein bars and at that point was probably not getting enough protein per day.  It was like I was able to work hard and long and my body handled it just fine, but as soon as I stopped the extra protein with the bars, things went south.  Does that make sense to people???

Well, I got a smoothie maker and bought a canaster of whey protein . . . totally yummy!!!!!

Let me know your thoughts


Protein plays an important part in recovery.  I'm guessing by not consuming enough your muscles were not recovering as well as they should have and thus this was having a detrimental impact on subsequent workouts.

For me, I make sure I have a source of protein every time I eat.  I also make sure that I am taking in protein of some sort within 30 minutes of finishing a tough workout.
2010-04-23 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
Hey Guys - Swim kick question for y'all.

Just picked up swimming in August.  I FINALLY have a decent stroke and bilateral breathing, but my lower half of my body is still a problem.  (I'm faster with a pull buoy.)  

So I did kicking drills last night and literally didn't go ANYWHERE.  With kickboard, without kickboard floating with hands at my sides - nothing.  I put on fins, I go no problem.  My boyfriend, also a newbie, has no problem.  He took a look and he's no expert, but he did notice that my toes always point straight down because even when I flex hard, I can't point my toes.  He thought my actual leg movement looked pretty good.

The questions (since I'm having trouble getting in touch with New Swim Coach):

 1.)  Could this be the issue in the first place?

 2.) If so, what exercises can you recommend to improve my ankle flexibility so that my feet can "flop" up and down like fins?

Thanks guys! 
2010-04-23 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED!
I'm getting myself prepped to head out for three day yoga retreat over at the Coast.  Have a one hour bike endurance workout on the schedule that may or may not happen depending on how quickly I can get myself packed and ready. 

Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!  Looking forward to reading the race reports on Monday.
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