Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 11)

owl_girl - 2012-04-10 11:03 AM

Well, yesterday was a run day.  I tried but only got a mile before I bagged it.  Today is a bike and run day.  Again, I'll try with the option of abandoning.  I never know how I'll feel.  Regardless, the effort is ridiculously low.

owl_girl - 2012-04-10 12:03 PM

Well, yesterday was a run day.  I tried but only got a mile before I bagged it.  Today is a bike and run day.  Again, I'll try with the option of abandoning.  I never know how I'll feel.  Regardless, the effort is ridiculously low.

jgerbodegrant - 2012-04-10 11:06 AM

Although I feel like that was the tenth time I have read the article, I really love it.  Well, except for the part when he refers to you as "level-headed" of course.

Those are the words I try to live by.  Sometimes it doesn't work that way, but I will say that I've adopted the method for the last 6 months and have not had any injury that has side-lined me like I normally would.  I have normal running aches and pains...sure, but no major issue.  I can run through them all.

I too would appreciate some trail running advice.  I plan on running trails as much as possible this year.  The time passes faster, it's a better workout, more fun and less impact.

jgerbodegrant - 2012-04-10 12:10 PM

Tracy, this is totally fine.  Very smart move in my opinion.  Keep at it and listen to your body.  1 mile runs are not useless....even when it feels like you didn't do much, you actually have woken your legs up and said, "hey you're still a runner."  Good job.  Let us know for your workouts today.  Keep up on that sleep so these small workouts don't hurt your immune system.

owl_girl - 2012-04-10 11:42 AM

I have a treadmill running question.  I run 4 to 5 days per week.  Almost all of that running is on a treadmill.  My son does not like riding in the running stroller anymore.  The treadmill I use is a super fantastic Woodway.  I don't feel any negative effects when I get out on the road.  I always do my weekend long run outside.

What kind of workouts would you suggest for the treadmill to stave off boredom?  I run between 25 and 60 minutes for my weekday treadmill workouts.

Since I'll be doing a hill climb half marathon in August, I have incorporated walking on the treadmill at incline for about 10 minutes at the end of each tready run.  My thought process is such that I'm allowing my muscles and tendons to get used to the incline before I begin busting out runs at super inclines.

Thanks team!  This is a great group!  Cheers!

JeffY - 2012-04-10 9:22 AM

A good pair of trail running shoes are incredibly helpful in giving you sure footing which helps to avoid falls and twisted ankles.  It's probably a lot like the difference between a truck using street tires vs. off-road tires when trying to drive through mud. 

First off, avoid 'trail' shoes that are just a 'rebadged' road shoe.  Some companies are offering so-called trail shoes by adding a knobby tread and using earth tone colors on an otherwise road shoe design.  These shoes will do nothing to provide you stability in rough, broken terrain.

A good trail shoe has less mid-sole, which means it will offer very little cushion.  But off-road, the surface is softer than pavement and you don't need as much.  It will fit very snug in the mid-to-rear of the foot, but not in the toe box.  You may want them 1/2 size LARGER than your road shoes because if your toes don't have extra room you can end up with black-toe when running down hills...but that's LONGER, not WIDER.  Remember, the middle and rear foot must be tight.

They may not be right for your foot, but look for the Adidas Adizero XT in a local store and try them on and you should feel what I'm talking about.  That is a very sure-footed trail shoe.

I keep thinking about putting together a youtube video demonstrating some trail running techniques.  These techniques would include ascending and descending, how different terrains should be dealt with,  going over obstacles...  These are things that could be described with thousands of words, but demonstration is so much better.

 

mambos - 2012-04-10 12:50 PM Man this group is super busy today! I spent my entire lunch trying to catch up! A lot of good advice, I'm definitely going to be keying on the 70.3 race plans as the time comes closer!
Also noticed I am being used as an example for being slow ! I'm glad I can set a good example, one thing that is neat to look at is in the graph section, go to myles and choose graphs! Select February 2011 to apr 2012 and use total distance-run for graph selection! I did not get up to the mileage I wanted but the steady increase from November until now is a telling tale! Some wise man once said that for every 5lb lost, you will also lose 45s on a 5k time! I'm still 10lbs above target weight so I may set a 5k goal of 21 flat for end of summer! I wonder if it's possible? Lastly IPhones stink for formatting on this site! Have a good day!

wbayek - 2012-04-10 1:06 PM

You are being used as an example of how training slow can make you race not slow.  You have officially lost the ability to play the slow card in terms of your running!

Great training, not great workouts - that's from the Little Red Book of Running, which is a great read, by the way.

DaveL - 2012-04-10 11:53 AM

I am going to have to look at some trail shoes so thanks for the advice. I currently use my vibram 5 fingers for trail runs around my place. I have about 20km of nice single track and tiny crushed gravel trail outside my door.

mambos - 2012-04-10 12:23 PM Haha, But I like my slow Card!  Since I have so much time at work I thought I wold post the graph I was talking about above.  IIt was a slow process but went from around 15 mpw up to 33mpw and it only took me 5 months

trigal38 - 2012-04-10 1:43 PM

Ok - quick question...

A little back tracking, in our last group I had just started using my heart rate monitor and set HR zones for the bike, did the LT test, then my HR monitor quit.

Hubby was nice enough to buy me a new one so I have started wearing it while I'm running also. I am not anywhere near fit enough to complete an LT test for running right now so should I even bother wearing it while I run or just wear it and observe what is going on? I have been trying to stay in the high 140-mid 150's range for an easy run. Does that sound about right?

JeffY - 2012-04-10 1:45 PM

This will sound a bit narcissistic (and may be), but I can't contain my enthusiasm over some recent workouts and want to share it with my fellow athletes.

Saturday morning: group ride with my club.  Only 32 miles because a few of us had commitments.  It was EASY.  I was surprised how easy it was to climb hills and leave everyone behind, usually without even getting out of breath.  When I got up front and led, I hit 25MPH on flat pavement and was actually going easy.  I felt so strong!

Sunday: I got a solo mtn bike ride in before running.  it was intended to be easy and enjoyable with a chance to focus on bike handling.  It was easy and enjoyable, but was also the fastest 2 laps I've ever done on my home trail...without trying.

Monday: my morning run after swim practice started with my usual 6.8mph on the treadmill, but after 1 mile my HR was only 120bpm.   Had to go to 7.5 mph just to reach 134bpm at the end of 5 miles.  That evening I did a lap on the mtn bike with 3 other mtn bikers.  Only pushed to my red zone once, but despite riding easy I had to keep waiting at the top of the hills for the others (who have always been clearly faster than me).  Across a flat field I easily pedaled up to over 20mph and dropped everyone.  The exciting part there is that it was my relatively easy < FTP effort!

This morning, post workout, I logged my lightest weight since I was a teenager.  162.5lbs.  Yes, that was post workout so dehydrated, but that's when I always weigh myself so it is an apples to apples comparison.  In December I was at 180 and a year prior to that I was 200.  It's a bit of a struggle sometimes to be so small after all those years of building muscle, but there are upsides that keep me from grieving too much.

And I just got back from the gym where my weekly back workout included WEIGHTED pull-ups (the first time since surgery).  I went as high as 70lbs strapped to me with no ill effects!

Next up: Stuffing my face tonight.  Can you say Breyers?

I'm sorry for my exuberance.  I know it sounds pretty petty to be talking about myself like this.  But nonetheless, I felt the need to share!

 

JeffY - 2012-04-10 1:53 PM

Dina, the answer depends.  In the 150s is high for me personally.  It depends on one or both of your max HR and LT HR. 

Of course the original old-school wisdom from the days before HR monitors was to find a pace that allows you to carry on a conversation without much breathlessness. 

So until you can do your HR test for running, I suggest you use it for observation.  It won't set the pace for your runs, but it will tell you what your HR is when you use subjective means to determine your 'easy' pace.  My guess is that you are running a bit too fast and your HR for easy runs might be closer to 140 (not 140-150, but 140).  Again, that's just a guess.

A few subjective measures to find your 'easy' run pace:

1. You could do it all day, the only discomfort you ever feel is the legs becoming fatigued after enough miles. (cardio discomfort is nil).
2. You can hold a conversation with someone without having to pause mid sentence for air.
3. You find yourself comfortable enough that you can daydream....no discomfort that keeps drawing your attention back to running.

 

guitarfrk75 - 2012-04-10 7:14 AM

That sucks man, My old job used to pull that stuff on me all the time. A couple of times I had vacation time scheduled and they canceled it at the last minute. I hated it. Best of luck finding another race!

Jo - I can't imagine whether you or your husband will go crazy first, but I can imagine both of you needing a week's worth of sleep to get over it!

Tony - If you're doing the right stuff, swimming more means bigger gains, so I'd definitely keep that extra swim day. Comfort in the water is also directly related to time in the water - the more you do it the more comfortable you'll be. It looks like the Iron Distance plans are time based,

As far as adjusting the training plan - try and keep the gaps between the key workouts the same, but you can certainly adjust the day it starts with. I try and rotate the day, but keep everything else the same - if I have a plan that starts with a long run on a Saturday, but I do my long run on Sunday, then I just push everything one day forward and work from there.

Bobby - At 3-5 miles every other day, that's a max of 20 miles per week. I think most here would recommend staying away from a lot of speed work due to the risk of injury and because the returns on speed are higher for slower, more frequent running to build endurance. Jeff can explain it best. Both Allison and myself have had a lot of success with the slower, more frequent approach. Others have too - I just can't remember who they are!

trigal38 - 2012-04-10 2:19 PM

Ok - thanks. I've only worn it once for running and that was a trail run so I'll just keep playing around with it for now. I'll try to wear it on the treadmill later this week and see what I get. It is much easier to control my pace on the treadmill, I just set it to easy and don't touch anything. On Saturdays run my Max HR was 169 - no wonder my ankle started to hurt. My average was 154. Low 140's felt so slow, like I was going to trip over my own feet. My HR was 110 and climbing when I was walking to warm up.

Just kind of interesting comparing the numbers to my RPE for now, even though they don't really mean anything yet.

How long would you suggest I wait, or how do I know if I'm ready to complete an LT test for running?

JeffY - 2012-04-10 9:32 AM

What you plan to do sounds great.  Just one caveat regarding #2.  Strength training time is not triathlon time.  Your current 14 hours needs to have strength training time removed.  Once you do that, what is your SBR investment each week?  Is it short of the 10 hours the plan calls for?

 

wbayek - 2012-04-10 8:08 AM

Long post, but here goes:

Your case is exactly why plans are meant to be guidelines.  I think your point 3 is key.  What will serve you best is to be consistently swimming, biking, and running.  If your life says Weds is good day to run long, and Friday works for a bike, and I have three openings here for swimming, sticking to that plan will ensure you do the workouts.  A perfect plan not followed will surely result in a bad race day experience, while almost any plan which gets you out the door every day will prepare you for a positive race day.

I love crafting my own workout plan - in fact it's one of the things I enjoy most about the sport.  We can make this thing overly complicated.  A 70.3 is a serious event which requires a lot of fitness, but the best way to get that fitness is to do the work week in and week out.  At our level, I would bet just sticking with a base building type plan for the whole training cycle would work great.  The best plan is the one you can follow week in and week out and stay fresh and motivated.

In general, for someone looking to do well but not seriously compete for a 70.3, my overall views would be:

Do enough swimming that you can manage 1.2 miles without much effort.  The swim of the race should feel like a warm up.  There are a lot of ways to get to that point.  For me personally I’ll do lots of 300-1000 yard open water swims repeats, swimming about 2000-2500 both weekend days and then I’ll do one pool or lake session with shorter faster intervals during the week.  If I miss the mid-week swim I’m not too upset.  Did I mention I hate pools more than most people hate treadmills?!

For biking, you have to get to the point that a 3 hour bike isn’t taxing.  Again, you really can’t feel like you’re racing the bike legs of a 70.3.  The terrain of the actual course is important, so if possible get used to riding similar terrain.  I’d say you need to get up to at least a 3 hour long ride, and a few other rides with longish (15+ minutes) harder efforts built in.

For running, again I’d go with run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.  The running on race day is very dependent on the biking, so these two go hand in hand.  I believe in separating the long run from the long bike.  I know the arguments for running the day after on “tired” legs, but I’ll say it’s better to run long on fresher legs and get the most out of the runs.  And a run a day after a bike is not at all the same as running 13.1 after a 56 mile bike. 

We can talk about race day strategy later, but this is an often overlooked part of the day.  Fitness is great, but producing your best result on the day really requires the right execution plan.

JeffY - 2012-04-10 2:45 PM

This will sound a bit narcissistic (and may be), but I can't contain my enthusiasm over some recent workouts and want to share it with my fellow athletes.

Saturday morning: group ride with my club.  Only 32 miles because a few of us had commitments.  It was EASY.  I was surprised how easy it was to climb hills and leave everyone behind, usually without even getting out of breath.  When I got up front and led, I hit 25MPH on flat pavement and was actually going easy.  I felt so strong!

Sunday: I got a solo mtn bike ride in before running.  it was intended to be easy and enjoyable with a chance to focus on bike handling.  It was easy and enjoyable, but was also the fastest 2 laps I've ever done on my home trail...without trying.

Monday: my morning run after swim practice started with my usual 6.8mph on the treadmill, but after 1 mile my HR was only 120bpm.   Had to go to 7.5 mph just to reach 134bpm at the end of 5 miles.  That evening I did a lap on the mtn bike with 3 other mtn bikers.  Only pushed to my red zone once, but despite riding easy I had to keep waiting at the top of the hills for the others (who have always been clearly faster than me).  Across a flat field I easily pedaled up to over 20mph and dropped everyone.  The exciting part there is that it was my relatively easy < FTP effort!

This morning, post workout, I logged my lightest weight since I was a teenager.  162.5lbs.  Yes, that was post workout so dehydrated, but that's when I always weigh myself so it is an apples to apples comparison.  In December I was at 180 and a year prior to that I was 200.  It's a bit of a struggle sometimes to be so small after all those years of building muscle, but there are upsides that keep me from grieving too much.

And I just got back from the gym where my weekly back workout included WEIGHTED pull-ups (the first time since surgery).  I went as high as 70lbs strapped to me with no ill effects!

Next up: Stuffing my face tonight.  Can you say Breyers?

I'm sorry for my exuberance.  I know it sounds pretty petty to be talking about myself like this.  But nonetheless, I felt the need to share!