RFP GROUP - CLOSED (Page 11)

Hi Tim. Makes perfect sense to me - good luck with week 12, you are doing awesome.

KC

tmoran80 - 2012-04-30 9:41 AM Well I am retracting my challenge since I don't want anyone to kill me -haha.  I ended up skipping my bike yesterday since I was in so much pain on Sunday.  Just doing simple things like getting up off the couch were torturous and I figured 2-1/2 hours on the bike was not going to make the situation any better. I decided to just take an extra rest day.  I did get a good amount of sleep and with my scheduled rest day today I should be good to go tomorrow for Week 12.  Gonna do the workout again this week since apparently it is reaching muscles that I have been neglecting. 

I have read in some other threads that swimmers cant count past 6, something which I was struggling with myself.  When I am doing a long nonstop swim (1500, 2000, 3500, etc) I would break the swim up into groups of 6, 8, or10 laps.  I use a watch as I swim, hit lap after  my chosen interval.  Since I am doing a consistent pace, I know that I should be very close timewise to the last interval.  Also, I can see the lap # I am currently swimming.  A little mental math as I do a lap and I never lose track of my total laps. 

Deb - awesome job on the HM! I agree, you should be very proud of yourself!  

Matt - I have the Garmin 910XT, which counts the laps for you.  Well, I haven't figured out if it actually counts LAPS but I have mine set to count distance.  It's pretty cool b/c you can specify open water or pool, and then if pool, what the distance of one length is.  It's not always accurate though b/c it doesn't count when I do kick only drills or if I do one arm drills (with the opposite arm the watch is on).  but it's pretty easy for me to remember and tack those on at the end. I'm REALLY bad at counting laps and usually lose track after 5 or 6 so this watch is a savior.  Oh, and you can also set stroke style.  I've only used it on freestyle so not sure how it works for the others. 

Yesterday was a great day! It wasn't as cold as expected but I did have frozen toes when I got home. I did a total of 47miles in about 3.5 hours.  It was a little slower than expected overall but a good way to ease back into training after a few days off.  Unfortunately I had a run and swim today which I wasn't able to do b/c of work again.  Tomorrow is just a swim but I think I'm going to do today's workout tomorrow.  I know, I know...not supposed to make up missed workouts but the run is WU plus 2x1mile @ threshold pace so it shouldn't hurt me too bad.  I'll check in again Wednesday morning when I try to do my bike VO2 work and hopefully won't be eating my words 

Ugh, back to work...

Hey, how do you like the 910XT.  I've had the 310XT three years. The battery on the HR quit, changed it and can't get them to pare again.  I think it is a battery thing in the strap.  But as I've found new respect for HR training, I am thinking of replacing the thing and would like a 910XT for the pool and open water distances.  Any issues with it?

I use one of the lap counters you referred to.  It is about $30.  Wife got it for a Xmas stocking stuffer for me.  Works great.  Counts laps, over all time, average lap time and fastest and slowest laps.  Only problem is that there is no "click" when you push it so you may miss alap or two.  You can tell that from the average times and adjust.  Nothing is perfect.  I have been spending time counting strokes so trying to do laps too is well, not happening.

You are right - that sounds completely like a nutrition issue, not fitness.  If you keep the engine stoked, you'll do great on the longer distance.  You can take gel packs or I mix gels with water in the small Fuel Belt bottles.  Chocolate tastes great.  You can also use products like Hammer Perpetuem.  Just sip from the bottle.   

Thanks everyone for the suggestions on counting laps in the pool.  I wonder if I will just end up sticking with something simple.  I liked the idea of having objects on the pool wall that you move from stack to stack - kind of reminds me of a piano teacher when i was a kid who wanted me to practice each piece 10 times, so would have a bowl of 10 beans that I would move to the other bowl.  If I'm scheduled for 50 laps, maybe i should put 50 jelly beans at the pool side and eat one every lap .  I freely admit though that i'm a tech geek and would love some sort of auto-counter.  i could also ask my wife to come and count my laps - but i don't think that would thrill her!

I ran a bit far in the Newtons on Sunday and my calves are asking for another day off running, so I'll plan on doing a longer bike ride this evening instead.  Hope everyone is doing well.

-- Matt

I was going to purchase the First Endurance EFS stuff but just havn't gotten around to it - alot has to do with how pricey the stuff is for training.  I have been using the Hammer Gels (Raspberry) for past month and really like them.  I am gonna try the Perpetuem once my rides get up to 4 hours.  Is that what you use Scott?

I am thinking of doing two - 4 hour Perpetuem bottles and a bottle of Hammer Gels mixed with water on the bike.  I would then use my Aerobottle for water and re-fill on course.  One Perpetuem bottle I will freeze and the other will be just mix and I will add cold (hopefully) water on the course.

For the run - I am thinking of doing two Hammer Gel flasks and then a 4 hour Perpetuem Nathan Quick Draw bottle to sip on until I get tired of that with water and Perform at aid stations.

For all my 70.3's I have relied on course Gatorade/Perform but I just don't think I get enough calories with those products and require ALOT of fluid and gels to get those calories.

Thoughts?

Good Morning Team.

I hope everyone is doing well.

Tim and Scott - thanks for starting the nutrition discussion. I have been thinking about it lately and I guess it is time for me to start dialing in my nutrition / hydration plans for races this summer. Does anyone have any articles, resources, readings etc. that I should start to look at? I honestly have no idea on how to start planning for that stuff.

Have a great day team.

KC

OK - fitting for the new Shiv scheduled for Thursday morning at 10:00 AM

Very excited!!!!!!

I really like it!  It even has a multisport mode where you just press the lap button and it goes from swim to T1 to bike to T2 to run.  So far I haven't had any issues with it.  I really like that you can turn it OFF to conserve battery whereas my 405CX stayed on all the time.  I'm still getting used the screen setup and figuring out what data fields I want to see.  I'm also using it as my bike computer (paired with the Quarq) so still getting used to the smaller display too.  I had gotten the Garmin Edge 500 to go with the Quarq and was using my 405CX for running before the 910.  My BF ordered the 910 for himself but forgot to get the HR monitor bundle, DOH!  He decided he didn't really need the 910 anyway (he's a cyclist only) so we just swapped out with each other.  Win-win   

I had heard of it having some issues with current pace during the run but that has since been resolved with their latest update. I think I received it with that latest update so I never saw an issue.  My problem is that I think I'm running too slow but my pace tells me I'm actually running faster than my RPE!  I shouldn't be complaining though since that means I'm getting faster right?

I am too glad you started the nutrient discussion as I was going to ask about it.  During my 70.3 last year, I just relied on water, gatorade and gels, I honestly didn't think that was enough and doing the full this year I need to work on it.

My LBS owner told me that I should go through about 5 bottles of water and gatorade during the bike portion on my HIM in June plus gels.  He suggested eating a pop tart.  Going thru 5 bottles for 56 miles seems a lot.  Doesn't it?

Tim, do you mix the gels with water in a water bottle?  I am feeling so clueless on this whole nutrient thing.  

Right now in training I am drinking water the first 20 minutes, gatorade the next 20 and then water and gel the next 20 and start all over again.  Last time my stomach felt like it had a lot of fluid in it and then I got hungry so I am thinking I need something more solid.

Yes, that's it, Perpetuem.  They have a couple of flavors to choose from.  The coffee (latte?) has caffeine. I find the taste very pleasant. I froze one bottle the night before and mixed one and chilled it.  Stayed cold enough long enough.  You really don't want to mix anything on the course if you can help it.  Two bottles, each 3 hours a piece.  I foraged on the run course.   There is plenty.  I relied on the chicken broth to cut the cramps from the bike and it worked very well.  I ate cookies and I took a flask of chocolate rage gels.  Believe me you won't go hungry on the course.  Practice before the race on your long rides.  

Check out the Hammer web site.  It has great information.  You will burn between 700 and 1,000 calories an hour but can only replace a fraction of that because your body won't absorb more than 250 to 300. You drink water several days before and take electrolytes.  You eat reasonably the days leading up.  You get up at about 2 or 3 and eat breakfast and then add a gel or two before the swim start.  T1 you change with lots of help from great volunteers.  You grab your bike and get your moving on the course and you eat for the first hour to replenish and then steadily afterward.  I never stopped for anything on the bike course but the cramps.  On the run it was run from mile feeding stop to mile feeding stop.  Grab food, water, something to drink.  My special needs bag on the run had a waffle sandwich with banana and peanut butter and a couple of my favorite energy bars.  Bliss. 

People think there are three events in triathlon.  They are wrong and doomed on long courses. At IM, there are six  events.  Swim. Bike. Run. Nutrition. Recovery/injury prevention.  And the mental game.  

I have a couple of checks coming, one for the book and one for magazine stuff.  I think I'll do it.

After thinking about this yesterday I looked again at the EFS stuff and think I am just gonna order some to try it.  Her eis the website if anyone is interested:

https://www.firstendurance.com/nutrition/efs-liquid-shot.html

http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/perpetuem.pp.html?navcat=fuels-energy-drinks

Kathy/KC - I would suggest creating a spread sheet for your nutrition plan and break it out by hour so you can really see how many calories and oz. of fluid you are "planning" to take.  Start it now and constantly tweak and practice with it until you are comfortable.  I will post mine later today so you can take a look.  I have a tendancy to over analyze my nutrition so I am trying to be realistic with IMWI.  Also remember that water intake is kind of dependent on the weather for race day.  I think if you have a solid nutrition plan and just drink what is required for the day you will be fine.  I agree with you that just using the Ironman Perform will not be enough to sustain for the day without drinking hundreds of oz. of fluid. Just as an example:

Ironman Perform - Calories per 8oz. Serving =70

Hammer Perpetuem - Calories per serving = 270

EFS Drink - Calories Per Serving = 96 (but they claim much higher electrolytes than all others -http://www.firstendurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/EFS-graph.png)

That is why I am leaning towards the Perpetuem and supplementing my remaining calorie requirements with a gel that I can tolerate.  That is only if my stomach can handle the Perpetuem!  It is enough to drive you crazy if you let it -haha

Good luck!

Hi guys! Had my first bike fit the other night and so far I think it was money well spent. I haven't had a chance to truly ride in my new position but during the fit is was feeling pretty good! I've got a long ride planned this Sunday so we'll see how it goes.

If you're interested in any of the details you can find them in my blog.

http://willtriforbeer.wordpress.com/

~ Jen

I also found this on the EFS website that gives all these pro triathletes that use their products and their nutrition plans for IM.  Not saying you should copy it but it will give you a good reference of how the pro's are doing nutrition.

http://www.firstendurance.com/sports/triathlon/

Good Morning Team.

I hope eveyrone is doing well.

WTFB - love your blog and cool info about the bike fitting. I will tell everyone about mine after my fit on Thursday morning.

Scott and Tim - thanks for the great info on nutrition. I have bookmarked this page so I can continue to refer to it. Tim, looking forward to your nutrition info.

3550 in the pool this morning-warmup, some drills, some endurance, some interval stuff and a nice cool down. Today I felt good in there - not fast by any means - but comfortable and confident. about 1/3 of my way into my workout Phelps got in next to me and a few months ago I would have been so imtimidated I would have left - today - I stuck it out and let him swim laps around me and I could care less.

After my swim I took a trip over to see my physio therapist for some work on my left knee. It has been acting up a bit climbing stairs or sunning up or down steep hills. Not a big deal but just the occasional stabbing pain that comes and goes very quickly. My physio guy has diagnosed a bit of jumpers knee (a touch of tendonitis) and believes I have nothing to worry about long term. I will keep you posted.

Have a great day team.

KC

Thanks KC! Would love to hear about your bike fit too. Good luck with it. And great job on the 3550 in the pool...wow!

~ Jen

Scott - you're gonna love it! 

Bike VO2 and brick run were great this morning!  The longer ride on Sunday didn't affect it at all.  Work is a little less stressful so I'm able to get back on track with the workouts. The weather has warmed up here and it was pretty humid on the run this morning.  Supposed to be that way tomorrow as well.  Ugh, fun times on the long run...NOT! 

Hi Everyone -

The bike fitting sounds quite interesting - i'll have to see if any of the shops around here have that service.  I was able to fit in a trainer ride last night as my wife and I watched the extras to season two of Downton Abbey (she got me started, and now we're both itching for season 3!).  Today I was scheduled for hill repeats on the bike and got out at lunch and rode to where i thought i'd find a long enough hill for some repeats.  While this rode is quite hilly, there aren't really too many long hills until mile 7.  So I did two longer hill repeats on the long hill and counted the rest of the hills as 'repeats' also - just shorter in duration.  Overall the ride was about 14.5 miles.

It's getting quite warm here too and humid.  I'll have to start wearing my sweatband under my helmet!

Heading to the gym in a bit to do some weights.

Matt

Thanks for the posts and discussion on nutrition...that is a question I had as well.  As a newbie to the Ironman distance, I am trying to find what will work for me.  For the Racine 70.3 last year, I drank about 4 bottles of water and 1 and a half bottles of Accelerade, pretzels (they helped me to keep drinking and provided some substance to the sports drink, gels, and endurolytes I was taking in).  I know I need a much better plan for IMWI. 

Just got back from a 4 mile run.  My plan called for 3-6 miles of running including hill repeats, but my high hamstring was nagging me on the run, so I decided to stay on a flat surface instead- did one hill at the end of my run, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.  Saturday is my half marathon I am running with my husband in Door County.  It is a hilly course, so I wanted to be cautious on it so I don't aggravate it going into the race.  I can't wait to get out of town this weekend...it is down to the final grind of the semester, and I have officially reached the state of burnout.

Deb- Nice work on the half marathon!  I agree, it sounds like nutrition was the issue with the bonking.  I bonked horribly at the Chicago Triathlon a couple years ago- mainly due to the fact I didn't take in enough on the bike and started the run dehyrdated.  It didn't help it was 98 degrees either...

Happy Training Everyone!

Jenny