Hashers and Mashers - Open (Page 11)

Hey all,

I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts on training for tri #2 after having just finished a first. You can see my outcomes from the race I just finished above, as well as my current plans (apropos of nothing and open to adjustment). Am I focusing on the right things? What would you focus on in your transition from your first race to your second? Any thoughts on how to best achieve these goals?

Thanks!
Alisha

Edited by alishaarrr 2013-06-26 11:14 PM

Guys/Gals

I am am trying again to give swimming one more chance (Fresno_Joe is starting to think i am Hydrophobic ) so I can attend our local Tri-events in Houston. I decided I will not fall to the Duathlon fallback yet. I want to start off with Olympic Distance. My foremost weakness is swimming. I am currently taking swimming lessons. I only plan to attend events that are wetsuit legal.

I need your feedback about:

1.) Since I plan only to attend wetsuit legal events would it make sense to do pool practice with a wetsuit?

2.) According to my instructor my problem in swimming is keeping my butt up to keep me in a horizontal position. My instructor tought me frontfloat,kick board drills and streamline to help me out. Any other advice?

3.) My instructor only wants me to use the pull buoy in moderation and its the least of the drills she wants me to do,but I feel it helps my upper body strength and keeps my strokes stronger any insights ony this?

Any information or advice can help me guys. I hope the Aquamen in our group is reading this: "wenceslasz","iLOVEwaffles"

Thanks

Carl

1. No. Chlorine eats away at wet suits and most pools are too warm to swim in the, comfortably.
2. Look up shark fin, one arm, and zipper drills on YouTube
3. The pull buoy will help you feel what it feels like to swim level without your butt and legs dropping. When I learned to swim, I built endurance and level swimming by alternating every 2-3 laps with and without the pull buoy. It allowed me to swim 1000 yard or more sets without getting gassed. Without the buoy I had to rest every lap or two, which is fine when you are doing drills.

Go to the pool 3x a week until it clicks. It might take a month, maybe longer. It took me six months so I hope it clicks for you faster than it clicked for me.

Sounds like you need to focus on recovery. Ice, compression, stretching, foam rolling, eating enough protein are where I would start. You need to feel good enough to keep running and slowly increase your volume. Look up "the stick" online. I get knots in my calves and self massage with the stick helps a lot (but it is painful).

Mike

I really appreciate the feedback.

what if i practice at a fresh water lake , i can take the heat ( I run 10+ miles under 95 deg. to 100 deg.F of heat) Would it be ok to wear my wetsuit without impairing my strokes?

I am just trying to finish under the cut off time you think i can develop sooner? My biking and running will make up for it. I am not looking for a podium finish. Not even an age group finish.

Thanks

Carlo

Thanks Rebecca!

It's great to swim in a lake if you have easy access. You can do your drills there. It's good to get use to the wetsuit too if that is what you will use on race day. The wetsuit will help you swim more level too. Some people have swimming click in weeks. The more often you can swim, the better chance you will have. Swimming is easy on the body, so go as often as you can without giving up running and biking. Keep us posted!

Carlo,

One thing that helped me was concentrating on slowing down, kicking just enough to stay level and concentrating on form. I'm not fast, I just want to feel good coming out of the water.

Your race is in December, correct? That's plenty of time to build up to 2.4 miles and make the cut off IMHO. I say go for it.

I like being called an Aquaman but I'm not really good enough for that. I just maintain a steady 3 swims per week.

So far ransick has given you really good advice so I'll just try to add a few comments.

First off I would really emphasize what ransick said in his last post to you. "Slow down" - it really makes a huge difference. When I first started swimming I couldn't slow down and I couldn't swim more than 50m. Then one day after many months of very slow improvement I swam in a lane with a lady who was just a bit slower than I was used to swimming and all of a sudden I had swam 750m non-stop for the 1st time.

1. No wetsuit in the pool.
2. I still swim with my feet lower than my upper body - it just seems harder for us guys. I do find that when I force my head lower in the water (attempting to lean forward onto my chest) my feet seem to come up a bit but I constantly have to remind myself to do it. In the lake my wetsuit brings my feet up nicely.
3. I'm terrible with a pull buoy (my stroke goes all spastic like I've never swam before) so I can't comment on pull buoys but I swim with a fellow who only swims with his pull buoy in the pool. In the pool he's faster than me but in the lake with our wetsuits on I am faster than he is by quite a bit. I'm not sure why - maybe a coach could explain it. I know the wetsuit makes OWS faster and the pull buoy in the pool may have a similar effect by bringing the legs up higher.

I started out swimming 3X per week 18mos ago and it took me exactly 6mos to click but once I clicked I really improved fast. Don't be upset when you have bad days they're inevitable and for me usually preceded a leap forward.

I lucked into some good coaching at our local pool which really helped me so find out what is available in your area. I found it really helped a lot to have people to swim with and have some good coaching at times as well.

I don't know what your lakes are like in your area but if you can find someone to swim with you it makes it a lot easier. Especially for your first few times in a new lake.

@Mike

I like your encouragement alot man .The race im planning is 3rd week of September Olympic distance, The IRONMAN distance i signed up at Dec. is relay i am just doing the Cycling leg. I just want to finish 1500m under one hour. I am really short of breath after 100 yards, i need to rest 60 seconds before going again for another 100 yards. Any advice on how can i get my lungs to get going for atleast 500 yards.

@Wenceslaz
Thanks for the good advice man. maybe i'll find my own mermaid like you did

OK GUYS!!

I need to nail to my head "SLOW DOWN!" FORM FIRST!!!




Edited by strykergt 2013-06-28 5:43 AM

If all you are looking for is 1500 in under one hour you could probably do that with breast stroke.  Maybe even doggy paddle...one hour is a loooong time for 1500.  That's 4 minutes per 100.  

But obviously you should not be game planning to doggy paddle or breast stroke.  My point is you should aim higher than one hour.  Also, if you are short of breath after 100 and need to rest 60 seconds before going for another hundred, I find it hard to believe that the problem is your lungs.  The problem is form.  I have a buddy who is a crossfit guy, way stronger than me, starting defensive back at a major university for four years about 10 years ago and doesn't look like he's missed a step.  But he can't swim at all.  One length and he's toast.  Doesn't mean he needs to work on his lungs, means he needs to learn to swim.  Are you in a position where you can get a private instructor?  Maybe even just a local college swimmer who needs some extra cash and can help you out a little?  Or a masters program you can go to (would be less 1 on 1 but it's still done wonders for me)?

A couple more comments, make sure you exhale as full as possible under water so you get a full breathe each time. Once it clicks, you are good for your Oly without stopping. You can probably make an hour now with rest and/or backstroke. Might want to try it just to put that cutoff fear behind you. As long as you are learning, throw in bilateral breathing. I figured that as long as I didn't have a strong tendency to breath to one side, might as well learn to breath on both sides. I start every set breathing every third stroke then go to every other when I get gassed. My preferred side to breath on now varies based on what is sore, lighting, waves, sighting and what side has better scenery.

The day it clicked for me I jumped from 400 straight yards to 1000. Two days later I did a mile. It immediately changed from a physical challenge to a mental challenge. Swimming 1500 yards or more straight is boring. The first time I did 1000 straight and a mile straight, I was ecstatic.

I had a really good swim today. I went early to a small Lake and started out with the intent of swimming for 1:15:00 continuous. I swam around the whole Lake in :57:49 so I then swam a further :15:xx. I can't say for sure how far I swam but I figure it was very close to 2.4 miles or more. It was really neat being out in the middle of a lake with no one around (no power boats allowed on the lake). I also enjoyed the feeling of moving smoothly and quickly through the water.

I should've stopped there but I then went for a 2:15 bike ride and a 1:15 run. I had a decent ride and I was somewhat able to run but when I apply my paces to my up coming HIM and it looks like I'm looking at almost 8hrs with lots of walking rather than running. In fairness to me it was very hot (35C/95F) and no shade anywhere so I really hope our race day will be cooler with lots of shade.

I was really tired by the time I finished which is a bit of a concern because it was only 5hrs today. I'm not sure about another 3 hours on race day. I also experienced some mild cramping in the last 30 minutes or so of the run. I'm not sure if I ate too much or what was wrong.



Fresno Joe - We're just heading into a heat wave here as well but our temps aren't quite as high as you're looking forward to. I'll have to get out earlier before it gets too hot.

yeah I'm not really a hot weather person either. I spent some time in Virginia, I liked it there. Weather-wise it can be like a swamp at times, and when it snows even a little the whole state seems to run around like the sky is falling, but at least it has four seasons. And the extremes of the seasons aren't too bad or too long. Fall seems to last a long time. In Fresno summer is 9 months of the year. And the other three months you still have th a/c on but it cools down at night a little. I'd think VA would be a great place to train for tri. Lots of hills, mild-ish weather. Lots of good nature. As I recall another person in the group lives in VA. I want to say superclysesdale maybe? But he hasn't chimed in in a long time.

Edited by Fresno_Joe 2013-06-28 10:39 PM

Weather here in VA has been all over the place. Tomorrow i hope to have a cooler day so i can get a hill climb ride in. 55 miles with 4000+ ft climbing. I have a short tri in two weeks so the next 2 will be swim practice and bike/run short bricks.

What was your nutrition like? I assume at least that you didn't take anything in during the swim? That's a lot of swimming with no calories in especially if you are not used to it, so you're already going into the bike at a deficit. Your HIM swim will be much shorter of course, and that change trickles down to affect everything. Also, not that you should count on this, but don't necessarily discount the competition effect. I find a 3 hour workout to be much more draining mentally at least than a 3 hour race. Even on a normal ride I'll want to stop and then I'll see someone a bit ahead of me and until they're well behind me I feel like I just started.

Ouch, that is brutal. Be careful in the heat.

I was going to say the say thing as Joe regarding the competition speeding things up. I find that true specially on the bike where I can catch people. Not so much on the run.

95 degrees is brutal for running. A mile into my last HIM it was brutally hot and I made the decision right there that I was going to have fun instead of hurting myself and possibly ending up in the med tent trying to hit my goal time. I had a blast. Ran when I could, walked when I needed to, high fives kids, chatted with spectators, encouraged other racers, etc. put ice in my shirt and shorts at every aid station trying to stay cool. Some spectators said I looked great and I asked them if I was winning. We all got a good chuckle :-)

Like joe, I'm curious what you did for nutrition. If it is going to be hot you might consider supplementing your nutrition with electrolyte capsules.

WOW, everyone is doing a great job. I've been trying to keep up, and its been tough. I'm trying to stay motivated to do my sprint in 3 weeks. Today I did my longest bike ride of the season, 23 miles. I keep thinking I should be further along than this, but this new job is stressing me out. The training helps, and that is my motivation for now. I'm not even interested in signing up for any other races this year.

If I get through the swim, 750 meters, I'll be ok for the rest of the race. My swimming is still not great.

Tom

double sorry

Edited by strykergt 2013-06-29 2:45 PM

Great brickwork man!!!!! hope to eventually do a SBR brickwork... looks like your on track for a HiM . from your workout its the running a little bit over the preferred pacing Again GoodJob

i am with you bro i tried running at 6 pm still the tempt is at 95's. I normally use a 4 bottle fuelt belt . i freeze the 3 the night before and when i go for a run at my normal 3 mi loop i pass by park with a water drink fountain i splash water to my face every time i make a loop. Sometimes just have to sleep early and wake up 5am. The good thing about running under this heat , the more i like to jump into the pool and go for that swim