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2014-02-04 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by JoshR  I think it's important to make a distinction. You need a QB who can also run. Not a running QB. You also need to teach your QB how to not get hit. Look at Kaep/Wilson. I've only seen Wilson take a few big hits ever and most of them are in the pocket. He doesn't push for that extra half a yard, he slides. Kaep does the same thing. RG3 though, is more like Vick. He is always trying to grab that extra foot and that's how you end up with a torn ACL. I think you saw him change his style a bit last year though. Edit: I'm saying if you want a mobile QB, not you have to have a mobile QB.

RG3 didn't "change his style"... he was hobbled, plain and simple.

Kap is just very very fast for such a tall guy. Usually 2nd year guys have trouble because there is plenty of film on them. Kap had his problems too... he still has work to do to become a good passer. But you can see him trying. You can see him working at it. Good stuff. And he does have a good arm.. .no doubt about that.

Russel Wilson... I think he just makes really good decisions. He has a great arm, and he is VERY "mobile"... if Kap wasn't around, he would be the best QB at running. That guy has a lot of room for growth... if he can stay smart, and know when and where... wow. VERY talented guy.

But yes, you get my point... you don't need a Vick, or a RG3... you need a Russel, a Rothlensburger, a Romo... guys that can keep plays alive and move the chains when it's crunch time.... but a QB is and always will be a passer... and in this day and age sending it down the field with big huge physical receivers with the rules on their side is not going away. A QB still has to have an arm... feet are just icing.

It's just with all the Manning talk lately... several different people have said the same thing about how the league is turning to mobile QBs... really Einstein... they truly have nothing to talk about.



Edited by powerman 2014-02-04 11:56 AM


2014-02-04 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by rayd
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by JoshR 

 

Na, even Jesus gets Tebow for PFM.

Not a slam to Manning...he's one of the greatest ever, but an imobolie QB is going to struggle against a D like Seattles. Not saying the broncos would have won w Tebow...but I think he would have put more points on the board. And he sure would have made the game more exciting to watch!

Well Brady is no gazell either. I'm actually getting sick of all the yapping how Wilson and Kapernick are the new prototype.... right, because nobody has ever thought of a mobile QB before. Those guys are just sitting around everywhere and nobody will let them QB because they are too mobile.

Vick was a runner, and he sucked at QB... he was just OK. Big Ben is mobile, Romo is mobile, Elway and Farvre were mobile. RG3, Russel and Kap just happen to be really talented running and throwing.... but the thing is.... hobble RG3 and what does he do for you? They figure out real quick they can't have their franchise player betting beat to heck... that why you have running backs and why they have short careers. And the other problem with running QBs is they rely on it too much, and won't commit to the pocket and progressing as a passer.

What you need is a pocket passer that can keep plays alive with his mobility... and yes, if Peyton had Elways mobility holy crap.... But we already know Manning's days are numbered... and so are Brady's. Andrew Luck... that is a big strong mobile QB... that guy is truly dangerous. We will see how Kap and Wilson progress.... they are extremely talented.

I think it's important to make a distinction. You need a QB who can also run. Not a running QB. You also need to teach your QB how to not get hit. Look at Kaep/Wilson. I've only seen Wilson take a few big hits ever and most of them are in the pocket. He doesn't push for that extra half a yard, he slides. Kaep does the same thing. RG3 though, is more like Vick. He is always trying to grab that extra foot and that's how you end up with a torn ACL. I think you saw him change his style a bit last year though. Edit: I'm saying if you want a mobile QB, not you have to have a mobile QB.

Wilson, Kap, Newton, RG3, Romo, Rodgers, Fowles, Cutler, Brees-ALL good arms, very mobile.  ALL NFC teams

AFC=Luck, Big Ben, Smith (just decent arm) and???.....drawing a blank.

NFC defenses are practicing every week against QBs who are threats with arms AND legs.  I think that's why the NFC defenses are so good.  And will continue to be better than AFC competition.

edited to add Roth



Edited by jeffnboise 2014-02-04 12:06 PM
2014-02-04 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by rayd
Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by JoshR 

 

Na, even Jesus gets Tebow for PFM.

Not a slam to Manning...he's one of the greatest ever, but an imobolie QB is going to struggle against a D like Seattles. Not saying the broncos would have won w Tebow...but I think he would have put more points on the board. And he sure would have made the game more exciting to watch!

Well Brady is no gazell either. I'm actually getting sick of all the yapping how Wilson and Kapernick are the new prototype.... right, because nobody has ever thought of a mobile QB before. Those guys are just sitting around everywhere and nobody will let them QB because they are too mobile.

Vick was a runner, and he sucked at QB... he was just OK. Big Ben is mobile, Romo is mobile, Elway and Farvre were mobile. RG3, Russel and Kap just happen to be really talented running and throwing.... but the thing is.... hobble RG3 and what does he do for you? They figure out real quick they can't have their franchise player betting beat to heck... that why you have running backs and why they have short careers. And the other problem with running QBs is they rely on it too much, and won't commit to the pocket and progressing as a passer.

What you need is a pocket passer that can keep plays alive with his mobility... and yes, if Peyton had Elways mobility holy crap.... But we already know Manning's days are numbered... and so are Brady's. Andrew Luck... that is a big strong mobile QB... that guy is truly dangerous. We will see how Kap and Wilson progress.... they are extremely talented.

I think it's important to make a distinction. You need a QB who can also run. Not a running QB. You also need to teach your QB how to not get hit. Look at Kaep/Wilson. I've only seen Wilson take a few big hits ever and most of them are in the pocket. He doesn't push for that extra half a yard, he slides. Kaep does the same thing. RG3 though, is more like Vick. He is always trying to grab that extra foot and that's how you end up with a torn ACL. I think you saw him change his style a bit last year though. Edit: I'm saying if you want a mobile QB, not you have to have a mobile QB.

Wilson, Kap, Newton, RG3, Romo, Rodgers, Fowles, Cutler, Brees-ALL good arms, very mobile.  ALL NFC teams

AFC=Luck, Smith (just decent arm) and???.....drawing a blank.

NFC defenses are practicing every week against QBs who are threats with arms AND legs.  I think that's why the NFC defenses are so good.  And will continue to be better than AFC competition.

You must not understand parity in todays NFL. The only consistent team in the last decade that stands head and shoulders above everyone else are the Pats... AFC. NFC didn't invent fast defenses and mobile QBs... they have been around for a long time.And teams do not stay stacked with talent for long.

Nobody stays dominate in todays league. You have short windows till it falls apart.... which again... makes Brady/Belichick even more amazing.

2014-02-04 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by powerman

You must not understand parity in todays NFL. The only consistent team in the last decade that stands head and shoulders above everyone else are the Pats... AFC. NFC didn't invent fast defenses and mobile QBs... they have been around for a long time.And teams do not stay stacked with talent for long.

Nobody stays dominate in todays league. You have short windows till it falls apart.... which again... makes Brady/Belichick even more amazing.

 

(edited badly to make quotes more clear)

Parity in the NFL?...really!!  Can you say "SALARY CAP"?.  There's suppossed to be 'parity'!  (shakes head)

We're talking about the impact of the 'modern-era' QBs in today's football.  What's Parity? got to do with anything we're talking about? 

AFC v NFC are tied at 5 each for last 10 SB wins.  But NFC has won 5 of last 7 SBs.

(Pats haven't won since '04.  And Brady likely won't get another shot!  You may want to get over the man-crush and find another date to prom. )

 

 



Edited by jeffnboise 2014-02-04 12:56 PM
2014-02-04 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by powerman

You must not understand parity in todays NFL. The only consistent team in the last decade that stands head and shoulders above everyone else are the Pats... AFC. NFC didn't invent fast defenses and mobile QBs... they have been around for a long time.And teams do not stay stacked with talent for long.

Nobody stays dominate in todays league. You have short windows till it falls apart.... which again... makes Brady/Belichick even more amazing.

 

(edited badly to make quotes more clear)

Parity in the NFL?...really!!  Can you say "SALARY CAP"?.  There's suppossed to be 'parity'!  (shakes head)

We're talking about the impact of the 'modern-era' QBs in today's football.  What's Parity? got to do with anything we're talking about? 

AFC v NFC are tied at 5 each for last 10 SB wins.  But NFC has won 5 of last 7 SBs.

(Pats haven't won since '04.  And Brady likely won't get another shot!  You may want to get over the man-crush and find another date to prom. )

 

 

 

 

LOL, finally something Jeff and I can agree on! Sick to death of hearing about "Tom Terrific". He didn't look so terrific in the AFC champ game. Nor does he look good at all anytime a defense is able to get in his face.

2014-02-04 2:08 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by powerman

You must not understand parity in todays NFL. The only consistent team in the last decade that stands head and shoulders above everyone else are the Pats... AFC. NFC didn't invent fast defenses and mobile QBs... they have been around for a long time.And teams do not stay stacked with talent for long.

Nobody stays dominate in todays league. You have short windows till it falls apart.... which again... makes Brady/Belichick even more amazing.

 

(edited badly to make quotes more clear)

Parity in the NFL?...really!!  Can you say "SALARY CAP"?.  There's suppossed to be 'parity'!  (shakes head)

We're talking about the impact of the 'modern-era' QBs in today's football.  What's Parity? got to do with anything we're talking about? 

AFC v NFC are tied at 5 each for last 10 SB wins.  But NFC has won 5 of last 7 SBs.

(Pats haven't won since '04.  And Brady likely won't get another shot!  You may want to get over the man-crush and find another date to prom. )

 

 

Uh... why do you say what I said and than act like it was your idea?

Parity has to do with the fact that there are no free lunches, and there is no such thing as cookie cutter blueprints to SB wins. You actually need a good football team to do it, and in todays league, it is very hard to put a really good one together and keep it together.

Everyone wants speed on defense... in fact Mannings SB win had a very fast defense... small but fast... not the normal huge bruisers. How do you think Patriots beat the Greatest show on Turf?  This is not news. And neither are mobile QBs. And after Wilson has been in the league 10-15 years, we'll see how mobile he still is.... when everyone will be talking about how great the rookies are.... oh and they will all be 7 feet tall and the new "prototype" QB... as if nobody ever thought having a tall QB Mobil QB with a great arm would be a good thing to have.

 

 



2014-02-04 3:52 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Here's some fun info for you on the Seahawks elite D.

Against Manning, Brees (2x), Brady and Rodgers, the clear top 4 QB's in the league, during the last 2 season their combined stats look like this. 79 QB rating, 62% completion, 5.8 YPA. Or basically Christian Ponder (77/60/6.3). Those 5 games produced 5 TD's and 4 INT's (also Ponderesque).
2014-02-04 4:00 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by JoshR Here's some fun info for you on the Seahawks elite D. Against Manning, Brees (2x), Brady and Rodgers, the clear top 4 QB's in the league, during the last 2 season their combined stats look like this. 79 QB rating, 62% completion, 5.8 YPA. Or basically Christian Ponder (77/60/6.3). Those 5 games produced 5 TD's and 4 INT's (also Ponderesque).

lol.  You are QUITE the stat guru, aint cha?

2014-02-04 4:14 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by JoshR Here's some fun info for you on the Seahawks elite D. Against Manning, Brees (2x), Brady and Rodgers, the clear top 4 QB's in the league, during the last 2 season their combined stats look like this. 79 QB rating, 62% completion, 5.8 YPA. Or basically Christian Ponder (77/60/6.3). Those 5 games produced 5 TD's and 4 INT's (also Ponderesque).

lol.  You are QUITE the stat guru, aint cha?




No, I just am a huge Hawks homer and read a lot of websites from people with more time on their hands than me.
2014-02-04 7:47 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Josh and others, can you watch this and tell me there wasn't something wrong with the NFC championship game.  Honestly?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA#t=691

 

Also Josh and other Seahawks fans, congrats on the Super Bowl win.  That was domination.

2014-02-04 8:17 PM
in reply to: bradword

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by bradword

Josh and others, can you watch this and tell me there wasn't something wrong with the NFC championship game.  Honestly?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA#t=691

 

Also Josh and other Seahawks fans, congrats on the Super Bowl win.  That was domination.




I watched the whole thing and I agree. Absolutely something wrong when big plays are missed. Hitting the kicker, you rarely see that one called incorrectly and block in the backs are always called. Us Niner fans were given a crap sandwich by the zebras.....

BUT....

Frickin' Kaep can't turn the ball over 3 times late. I think he burned so many early regular season time outs that he thrown off and wasn't prepared to call a late time out before the last interception.

All in all, thanks for bringing up that crap so I can stew a bit longer.

You know damn well the NFL is sending us to Seattle to open the season.

I only wish that A&M would rescind their 12th man rental so they would have to have an original idea.


2014-02-04 8:32 PM
in reply to: papson14

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

I agree Kaep can't turn the ball over, but one shouldn't have happened due to rigging the clock.  The clock issues blow me away.  Didn't know that during the game.  But giving 34 (or was it 36) seconds to one team and 70+ to the other?  Huh?  How does that even work?  Weird stuff I tell you. 

 

And yeah, I got pissed off all over again after watching that...dang it!  Spring training couldn't come sooner.  Go Giants!

2014-02-04 8:35 PM
in reply to: bradword

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Unfortunately, I'm a Mets fan. I've got nothing good coming. Good thing tri season is coming.
2014-02-04 8:45 PM
in reply to: papson14

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Yeah not sure about my Giants this year.  Hopefully this odd even odd even World Series win thing continues and we win it all again in 2014 

 

That's the thing I love about baseball, it is almost never up to the umps on a game.  NFL seems to be almost any game now a days, well maybe except this superbowl.  I think we can get the birds a clear win on that one.  Maybe 

2014-02-04 8:59 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

At least at the end of the season power rankings they have the 49ers ahead of Denver.

 

I just think #1 and #2 should be swapped.  

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/powerrankings



Edited by bradword 2014-02-04 8:59 PM
2014-02-05 2:40 AM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Originally posted by bradword

I agree Kaep can't turn the ball over, but one shouldn't have happened due to rigging the clock.  The clock issues blow me away.  Didn't know that during the game.  But giving 34 (or was it 36) seconds to one team and 70+ to the other?  Huh?  How does that even work?  Weird stuff I tell you. 

 

And yeah, I got pissed off all over again after watching that...dang it!  Spring training couldn't come sooner.  Go Giants!

Don't the refs keep their own clock?... or at least I've seen situations where they told the timekeeper to reset the game clock to a certain time.

This site tracks penalty stats, so if you guys want to get into the details, here's the play-by-play.  It shows that delay of game with10:38 left, and the previous play ending with 11:18 remaining.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/game/san-francisco-49ers-at-seattle-seahawks-01-19-2014

As a side note, 49ers with only 1 delay of game and 1 false start playing AT Seattle is pretty amazing, whatever else you think about the game.



2014-02-05 3:18 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

Btw, I know this is probably adding fuel to the fire, but click really slowly over that video during the running into the kicker penalty.  It's a subtle rule and I hadn't read it in detail until just now.

If his plant foot is down and the Seattle player hits it, it's roughing (1a).  But if his foot comes down on the Seattle player (in this case, Maragos's left hand), it means the defender slid under him and it's running into the kicker (2b).  From the 2nd video angle at 7:02, looks like the latter.

The rule also says when in doubt, it's roughing.  But maybe the ref had a better view.

 

Official rulebook:

Item 1: Roughing the kicker
.
It is a foul for roughing the kicker if a defensive player:
(a) contacts the plant leg of the kicker while his kicking leg is still in the air; or
(b) slides into or contacts the kicker when both of the kicker’s feet are on the ground.
It is not a foul if the contact is not severe, or if the kicker returns both feet to the ground prior to the contact and falls over a defender who is on the ground.
Note: When in doubt, it is a foul for roughing the kicker.

Item 2: Running into the Kicker
.
It is a foul for running into the kicker if a defensive player:
(a) contacts the kicking foot of the kicker, even if the kicker is airborne when the contact occurs; or
(b) slides under the kicker, preventing him from returning both feet to the ground.

2014-02-05 7:04 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Does anyone else find it strange that not ONE helmet to helmet hit was called during the Super Bowl? I certaionly saw it happen more than once and very obvious; more so than most that were called in the prior 19 weeks of play. Perhaps the league didn't want to show the greater public the arbitrary wussification of that call?
2014-02-05 7:50 AM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs

I keep seeing people trying to justify running into the kicker, except there is none.  It's very clear he runs into and rolls the ankle on the plant foot.  Zero question it is a 15 yard penalty that was agreed it was incorrect by all the experts.

 

2014-02-05 10:35 AM
in reply to: pitt83

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by pitt83

Does anyone else find it strange that not ONE helmet to helmet hit was called during the Super Bowl? I certaionly saw it happen more than once and very obvious; more so than most that were called in the prior 19 weeks of play. Perhaps the league didn't want to show the greater public the arbitrary wussification of that call?


Same thing happened last year. On the Crabtree out route to the flat on 3rd down at the end of the game the Ravens CB earholed Crabtree with the crown of his helmet. It was possibly the most obvious helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless player I have seen. No call.

Safety apparently only matters sometimes.



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2014-02-05 10:39 AM
in reply to: papson14

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by papson14

Originally posted by bradword

Josh and others, can you watch this and tell me there wasn't something wrong with the NFC championship game.  Honestly?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA#t=691

 

Also Josh and other Seahawks fans, congrats on the Super Bowl win.  That was domination.




I watched the whole thing and I agree. Absolutely something wrong when big plays are missed. Hitting the kicker, you rarely see that one called incorrectly and block in the backs are always called. Us Niner fans were given a crap sandwich by the zebras.....

BUT....

Frickin' Kaep can't turn the ball over 3 times late. I think he burned so many early regular season time outs that he thrown off and wasn't prepared to call a late time out before the last interception.

All in all, thanks for bringing up that crap so I can stew a bit longer.

You know damn well the NFL is sending us to Seattle to open the season.

I only wish that A&M would rescind their 12th man rental so they would have to have an original idea.


Denver plays at Seattle next year also.

It will be either SF or Denver on the opening Thursday night.


2014-02-05 11:31 AM
in reply to: bradword

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by bradword

I keep seeing people trying to justify running into the kicker, except there is none.  It's very clear he runs into and rolls the ankle on the plant foot.  Zero question it is a 15 yard penalty that was agreed it was incorrect by all the experts.

 




Even worse, we had to decline the penalty because he was hobbled and couldn't try to nail a better punt. Just crap.
2014-02-05 11:32 AM
in reply to: uclamatt2007

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by uclamatt2007

Originally posted by pitt83

Does anyone else find it strange that not ONE helmet to helmet hit was called during the Super Bowl? I certaionly saw it happen more than once and very obvious; more so than most that were called in the prior 19 weeks of play. Perhaps the league didn't want to show the greater public the arbitrary wussification of that call?


Same thing happened last year. On the Crabtree out route to the flat on 3rd down at the end of the game the Ravens CB earholed Crabtree with the crown of his helmet. It was possibly the most obvious helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless player I have seen. No call.

Safety apparently only matters sometimes.


All this stuff just gets me angry again. I'm going to go yell at my damn TV.
2014-02-05 11:46 AM
in reply to: uclamatt2007

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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by uclamatt2007

Originally posted by papson14

Originally posted by bradword

Josh and others, can you watch this and tell me there wasn't something wrong with the NFC championship game.  Honestly?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA#t=691

 

Also Josh and other Seahawks fans, congrats on the Super Bowl win.  That was domination.




I watched the whole thing and I agree. Absolutely something wrong when big plays are missed. Hitting the kicker, you rarely see that one called incorrectly and block in the backs are always called. Us Niner fans were given a crap sandwich by the zebras.....

BUT....

Frickin' Kaep can't turn the ball over 3 times late. I think he burned so many early regular season time outs that he thrown off and wasn't prepared to call a late time out before the last interception.

All in all, thanks for bringing up that crap so I can stew a bit longer.

You know damn well the NFL is sending us to Seattle to open the season.

I only wish that A&M would rescind their 12th man rental so they would have to have an original idea.


Denver plays at Seattle next year also.

It will be either SF or Denver on the opening Thursday night.


My money is on GB opening up at the Clink actually. SF will probably get a home opener in the new stadium and I've read the league doesn't like to open with Intra-conference games.
2014-02-05 1:56 PM
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Subject: RE: NFL Playoffs
Originally posted by JoshR

Originally posted by uclamatt2007

Originally posted by papson14

Originally posted by bradword

Josh and others, can you watch this and tell me there wasn't something wrong with the NFC championship game.  Honestly?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA#t=691

 

Also Josh and other Seahawks fans, congrats on the Super Bowl win.  That was domination.




I watched the whole thing and I agree. Absolutely something wrong when big plays are missed. Hitting the kicker, you rarely see that one called incorrectly and block in the backs are always called. Us Niner fans were given a crap sandwich by the zebras.....

BUT....

Frickin' Kaep can't turn the ball over 3 times late. I think he burned so many early regular season time outs that he thrown off and wasn't prepared to call a late time out before the last interception.

All in all, thanks for bringing up that crap so I can stew a bit longer.

You know damn well the NFL is sending us to Seattle to open the season.

I only wish that A&M would rescind their 12th man rental so they would have to have an original idea.


Denver plays at Seattle next year also.

It will be either SF or Denver on the opening Thursday night.


My money is on GB opening up at the Clink actually. SF will probably get a home opener in the new stadium and I've read the league doesn't like to open with Intra-conference games.


Well that should mean about a month of rehashing the Fail Mary before the game. Oh joy.

Edited by uclamatt2007 2014-02-05 2:03 PM
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