PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL (Page 12)

I actually used to do a much longer run right after the bike, to come closer to what I would have to do on race day. That just wasn't sustainable over long periods of training, as you can imagine; so I took the cue from others to move the long run to the next morning. Yes, you're still somewhat fatigued, but with a good night's sleep it really works out pretty well. And on race day, you're going to have to do the full bike and run back to back; not to mention that little old swim thing.

One caveat I want to throw in here, and it also relates to the post about 5 bikes and 5 runs: We always need to be taking into account how long we have been training in terms of frequency and distance. And I'm talking in terms of years, not just weeks or months. The training I am doing right now would have been pushing me to my limits a few years ago, and might have resulted in fatigue and/or burnout (it still may, we'll see!...). That is especially true when you are talking about half or full IM distances. Pros and AG athletes that have done IM's for years can handle a level of training that would not be good for most of the rest of us. They've done so many 4-5 hour bike rides and 2-3 hour runs over the course of so many years that it just isn't as hard on their bodies. I think that's a big part of the reason why you see relatively older athletes at the peak of triathlon, as compared to other sports.

So, short version of all that rambling... base your training plans on where you are at right now, and take a logical path to get to where you want to be. Don't just jump in and try to match the training levels of people with many more years of training.

I'm not saying any of you are doing that, I just remember the pressure when I first started and would read advice telling me I should be doing 15K of swimming, 200 miles of biking, and 50+ miles of running per WEEK in order to do an IM! It almost discouraged me from ever trying one at all. Some people go to extremes, and place huge emphasis on being the absolute fastest they are capable of being; but there is a middle ground.

I've been reading about placing runs immediately after rides in order to prepare for races.  It seems like a logical thing to do, but I've read 2 or 3 sources suggesting it isn't necessary beyond a few shorter brick workouts and could actually be dangerous leading to injury.  The thinking is you're much more susceptible to injury while running when your legs are tired.  Just some random 2 cents. 

 Will

Good info on the way you design your weeks, I still feel too new to deviate from the online plan I am using, but I think after a season or 2 I may be able to start figuring out what works best for me.

I am settling into my new routine ok, still a little tired during the day and ready for bed by 9-10 pm that's for sure.  I have gradually moved the long run back up from 6 to 7.5 to 11 and now 13 miles following the marathon almost a month ago.  I am going conservative with 2 rest days at the moment until I am sure my legs are 100 percent.  So the workout looks like this atm.

M Bike 20, Run 6-7, swim 3000

T Bike 20, Run 6-7, Bike 20

Wed off

Th Bike 20, run 13-15

Fri Bike 20, run 6-7 easy, swim 3000

Sat Bike 60-70

Sun off.         

Races are NorCal 10 miler in March, Boise HIM June, Vineman full IM August. 

I think that's a good approach. No sense in playing around with the plan until you have enough experience to tweak it.

You need to write a book on how to get that kind of training in with 5 kids in the house! I only have one left at home, and she's an extremely socially active 15 year old. That, and working from home, allow me to have a pretty aggressive schedule. You are definitely one dedicated guy...

Well it does help to live in a warmer climate too. We don't have any palm trees here. At 530a.m. in Boise it's about 20-25 degrees. Even when I get up around 8a.m. after going to bed at 2a.m. it's still below freezing or there abouts!

I did get in a week of quality work outs, even though I took an unplanned day off. Sunday is my day off from training so I am going to enjoy it.

Boise is about 250 to 300 miles north of us.  And we are at elevation 4500, so ya 5:30 am is typically 10 to 20 F and noon is typically mid 30's, but varies.  So for now the am bikeride is on the drainer. 

Although yesterday I went on my 65 mile bike ride at 32F and it flurried on me for several hours with a 15-20 mph wind.  That was kinda fun. 

Then I showered and took my wife out for a champaine, prime rib Valantine's Day dinner. 

Are you doing the Boise HIM in June, I forget who all is in for that? 

Those temps you guys are talking about are just WAY too cold! I whine like a little girl about biking in temps below 60.

I show you (baowolf), triscruggs, and mtnbkr all doing Boise 70.3. That will be pretty cool.

We need a 10K update from trinity, btw...

As for me, the marathon went very well. I was at 3:39 something according to my Garmin (official website has been down all day, go figure...). That's right about where I wanted to be today, and I was able to finish the last 10K with about an 8:00 min/mile pace avg.

Pretty tired, and heading out for a good steak and then sleep time; but I'll be back tomorrow to catch up on things. Hope everyone had a good weekend!

JD

I was out the other day in a 62 degree rain.  It was FREEZING.  I wish I was kidding...    Your dedication is amazing.  I did run up in BC last week when it was around freezing.  I felt like a champ!

For those of you with time trial bikes, what saddle are you using?  I need a new one.  Any info you have on tri saddles and the process you used to find it would be very helpful.

Will

Nice marathon run there JD. 

Unfortunately it's not great news for me...no PR.  I finished in 54:30 which is :20 off my PR.  Since I am so new to running this is my first time not setting a PR in a race.  I was a little disappointed at first but I got over it because there's not much I can do about it except continue to train smart.

Looking back over my logs I had about a 6 week down time due to my knee.  I didn't return to full run training until the first part of November.  That being the case I am right around 12 weeks back from a 6 week down time.  The estimates I've heard is that it is about 2 weeks training to gain back 1 week of lost time.  That appears to be true for me since my time this weekend was pretty close to my time before the injury.

I think my main limiter this race was simply endurance.  I may have gone out a tiny bit too fast and just wasn't able to hold on.  My first 2 mile splits were in the mid 8:20's.  The next 2 dropped off to the 8:40's and the final 2 were in the 8:50's.  Another issue was prerace nutrition.  I ate a bagel and an apple about 2 hours prior to the race and I had some sport drink about 40 minutes prior.  That doesn't seem like much but about mile 3 my stomach felt full and I was on the verge of cramping and/or puking the rest of the run.

So my ego is a little bruised but I went right back to training and did my long ride yesterday.  It felt great and I enjoyed it even though it was on the drainer.  I am going to take JD's advice and start to focus on the bike and add an extra session each week.  I am also going to add an extra run to see if I can increase my run endurance.

I don't have another race on my schedule until my first tri in mid-April so I may try and find another 5 or 10k to do in the mean time.

How was everybody else's weekend?

Nice time on the marathon, espeicaially those last 3 miles. 

I have to eat like nothing prior to a race or very little very long before the race.  I can get by with it on the bike, but on the run it will cramp me up.  So the last 20 min on the bike I try not to drink anything unless it is very hot prior to the run transition.  Cramps or near cramps will take the wind out of your sail for running, just makes you lose focus and way ups percieved effort for the same or slower pace.  

Trinity...I'm no expert but here is my 2 cents...The Hammer Nutrition site strongly suggests no food within 3hrs of a race. Their advice is based on years of experience and trial/error. The philosophies they have are very sound. For me, the bagel would be too heavy, especially depending on what you had on it. The apple may be too much fiber and takes more caloroies to digest than you get from it. If your sport drink had simple sugars in it that could be a factor also. Once again, Hammer products have all complex carbs, which are much easier to digest, and no simple sugars.

Congrats on a very good race...........Tom

I use the Profile Design Tri-Stryke saddle as can be seen HERE . I tried about 3 or 4 others before this, and have been really pleased with the comfort of this one. The best thing for me is not so much the cutout, but the padded front nose. Also, before you spend the extra bucks for the titanium rails version; note that the difference in weight is only 20g. A good haircut will save you that much weight!

To find one that works for you, the only thing I can suggest is to go to your local bike shop (LBS) and have them set up a bike for you in a trainer. Then try out a few saddles, making sure you spend a decent amount of time on each one. They normally have a bunch of used saddles sitting around from people that trade in their old ones.

Edited to add this link to an article just posted on this site about saddle selection. How timely!

Thanks Tom!  I truly appreciate your input.  When it comes to nutrition I'm not very knowledgable and I don't put as much effort into it as I should, so I am definitely open to suggestions and advice.  I definitely feel like it was one of if not the greatest limiter to my performance and I'd like to correct it for the next race.

So what does everybody do for pre-race (evening before, morning of) nutrition?

Hey trinity - sorry to hear that your race didn't go as you had hoped. That's always a little disappointing when it happens (and it does happen...).

I also see a lot of positives, though. First of all, coming that close to your PR coming off a knee injury is really very good. You almost positively would have broken through that PR if you had not had the 6 week downtime.

The other positive, and a truly important one, is that you have some *terrific* learning that you can take away from the race. You can look back at your training logs and see how your training distances, frequency, and pace ended up translating on race day. You now have a great measuring stick that you can use in your training going forward (i.e. 8:20's was slightly faster than what you could hold for a full 10K; so use that information in your training and in your next race). And of course, you have some learning that you picked up in terms of nutrition. I align somewhat with baowolf and mtnbkr in that I'd keep food pretty light for something like a 10K. Food/drink is harder to digest and process the harder your body is working, and in a 10K you are pretty much going all out or close to it. Also, you don't need much to go for 50 minutes, your body has plenty of stored glycogen for that length of effort.

One last comment is that some days are just better than others. You even see that with the pros. They'll podium a couple times during the year, but they'll also have races where they are not even close (or DNF). But man is it great when you hit one of the good days! That's the crack that keeps us going

While I'm online, here's my routine for pre-race nutrition; and I'm looking forward to seeing what some of you are doing as well...

The day before I usually don't do anything drastically different, but for longer events I will make sure and eat a good meal with plenty of healthy carbs and low in fats and fiber. That will be a late lunch, btw; not a huge dinner (more time to digest).

Race morning; I start with a small amount of coffee. I'm not a big coffee drinker, so I don't drink a whole lot, but a little of caffeine is proven to provide a little bit of a mental edge/pick-me-up. It also helps to clear the system before you get to the race, if you know what I mean   Oh, and I usually have cut back or eliminated caffeine the week before the race (if it's a big one) both to help ensure I sleep really well, and to enhance the caffeine effect on race day.

For food, I'm looking for high-carbs, very low fiber, very low fats; and a little bit of protein. I like eggo waffles or bagels (NOT whole-grain) with peanut butter and honey, Ensure, yogurt, things like that. A lot of people like oatmeal, I just don't like the taste at all. I try to eat as far in advance of the event as possible, and I base the amount on the length of the event. But I prefer to err on the side of eating light, as a full and bloated stomach ends up being disaster for me.

I normally don't drink more than a few sips of sports drink prior to a race, sticking to water instead. I've also learned over time that I don't need to be over-hydrated, just drink enough to hydrate and then keep liquids going during the race as needed.

Pardon my rant -

The pool I train at is STILL closed.  They have not been open since 2/4.  I am assuming they have some kind of maintenance issue but to be shut down for going on 4 weeks is unreal.  The pool is not even a year old.

I am enjoying the extra time for running and cycling but I am really missing the swim time.  It is the only pool in the area I can afford and that has lap swimming times that suit my schedule.

- rant over

It does sound a bit like you have not fully recovered from the marathon (at least mentally). Sometimes you get one big event done, the next one is too far out in the future to make you super-motivated; so it's just hard to get really worked up about training. Seems like you're doing the right thing, keeping some level of training going and giving yourself some rest. And don't worry about intensity right now, that will come back.