Disturbed275's Mentor Group - CLOSED! (Page 12)

Ankle flexibility is an issue with a lot of runners.  Having the toes pointed down will cause quite a bit of drag, regardless of how fast you are kicking.  One of the points I try to remember when I swim is to keep my toes pointed at the wall behind me.

I'll get back to you on ankle exercises.  I remember reading something about them in Triathlete Magazine a few months back

Forgot to mention too that the kick should be originating from the hips too and not the knees. 

Another tip is to keep the feet close together.  I try to brush my big toes against each other as I kick.

Well I have a story for you. I swam with some in high school who during kicksets, would kick properly, he would still go backwards. When he swam sprint distance events though, he ended up being the second fastest person on the team. So what I am trying to say is that even if you know all the right things to do for kicking, sometimes it just doesn't work out.

 A couple of key points I watch out for:

1. The kick comes from the hips. This means if you bend your legs at the knee and only kick with the lower half or calf muscle of your legs, your are going to tire quickly and get no where too fast. Remember the upper leg muscle hammies and quads are much bigger and normally stronger than the lower calf muscles for kicking.

2. Toes must be pointed at the wall behind you. If the toes are pointed down towards the bottom of the pool you create drag and also have a tendency to reverse the kick motion and go backwards. Now ankle flexibility is important with this in order to properly extend them.

3. The last thing I like to focus on is my body position. This means hips on top of the and feet creating a whitewater kick behind me. How do you get the hips up? By pressing the chest in the water and keeping your head lower towards the water except for when you need that quick breathe.

4. Small, fast, tight, kick. This means that you should not be doing like the scissor kick, legs greatly coming apart. Your kick should be quicker movements in a smaller pattern to get more speed out of the feet, instead of a long, lazy kick.

Edited by scotty930 2010-04-23 11:14 AM

Are you racing an indoor at a Lifetime Fitness? Good luck with that indoor! Keep taking care of those injuries so they can heal.

Yep, I am doing the LT indoor. Signed up a few months ago.

Just my opinion on the swim kicking, I too am WAY FASTER without kicking and using a pull buoy.  Like 7-10 second per 50.  My cardio is also not taxed as much when using a pull buoy. However, I must admit that I trained 100% last summer with a pull buoy and so I probably have very good upper body strength.

I have tried my darnest all winter to develp a swim kick and I am still very weak.  I am not too concerned about it because I will be wearing a wetsuit in all my races and you don't really kick much in the races.  The wetsuit will keep your lower body bouyant and it is difficult to get a really good kick in a wetsuit anyhow.  Plus, you pick up time just by virtue of the wetsuit being so slick.

 . . . but if you are determined to develop a kick, make sure to kick from the hips.  Try locking your knees and kicking and see if you go anywhere (just for the sake of understanding the difference between the hip kick and the knee kick).

If you are good with the pull buoy, just be careful as it can injure your shoulders if you do too much too soon.

Thanks for the kick tips guys!  And yes, I'm not TOO worried about it since I'll be wearing a wetsuit, but I do continually strive to improve my technique.  I'm already following most of the pointers except for the fact that my toes point down even when I try to point them back.  Sounds like working the ankle flexibility is indeed the next step for improvement.

Had a really good swim session with my coach tonight.  He watched my times and we tried several things.....Started at 2:02:34 per 100.....By the end of the hour I was down to 1:57:16.  He wants me to move my arms about 2x faster than I have been because my legs automatically increased with the arm speed.  What I am still having a hard time wrapping my brain around is how that is more efficient when the stroke count automatically increases? 
We did play with my hand entry--angle the wrist more and for the first time ever I felt the water pressure on the forearm. 

For ankle flexibility, try sitting on your ankles

That is awesome improvement!!!!!!!!

The faster the turnover of the arm, the faster you will be.  You still need the length of the stroke, but you will just be doing it faster.  Your stoke count may increase in the beginning as you develop muscle strength, but you will lower over time.

As far as the angled entry, throw on a pair of paddles and try what you previously have done and what change you have made. You should notice and immediate difference.

Great job!!!

P.S. I have tried to get a hold of our swim coach around here but haven't heard back.  I am almost convinced after 2 bike rides that the aero bars are what is causing my shoulder pain.  Just not sure what it is.  Will be at bike shop tomorrow.

We played with various toys durning my lesson.  I have the various times and what we tried for each 100 in my blog. 

Aero is a tough adjustment.  Good idea to check the bike fit to see if that's part of your issue

Thanks for all the encouragement for my upcoming Duathlon Sunday.  First real race of the year and my first duathlon.  Bad new was I got a cold Tuesday and I'm still fairly congested today.   But I'm pushing fluids today to try to flush out the funk in my lungs and we'll see how it goes.

Sounds like we have similar challenges in swimming, but your ahead of me on you breathing from both side.  My couch says my balance is bad because I've swam for the last 10 years breathing from one side.

I don't kick and when I do I have the same problems.  The tips from the group sound great.  Two weeks ago I was in a swim clinic and they put me in a minnow lane because of my poor kicking.  The drill was to swim on my back with my hands over my head.  They told me all the stuff the group said, but the one thing that stuck was they said don't let your knees come out of the water.  Wow all the sudden I got it I started to run into the people ahead of me.  The next lap the took me out of the minnow kick lane to work on my stroke. 

Lots to work on.

Based on my training team's recommendations I make sure I do recovery drinks right after my workouts.  I been using Endurox R4 and it seems to be working.  My last three weeks were some of hardest ever and I've been recovering well.  13 grams protein and carbs too.  They say the timing is important so I make sure I get it done withing 15 minutes.

I try to make sure my snacks have protein too.  Whole grain crackers and organic peanut butter and soy crisps are two good choices.

Good to know!  Speaking of such things, I just tried Gatorade's new recovery drink in the Lemon-Lime flavor because I hate, hate hate, Powerbars.  (I don't like eating something chocolatey and heavy right after a long workout.)  It was DISGUSTING.  I think that the lemon-lime flavoring isn't completely masking the taste of the whey protein, making for a fruity-milky mix of flavors.  Yuck! 

So bought one of those Ninja Master Prep off an info-commercial.  It is a blender and does some other things.  Make great smoothies and really blends thing.  Bought a canistar of whey protein, add to that ice, orange juice, fronzen strawberries and a banana, and I have a "orange apeel" from Jamba Juice on steroids.  Very tasty . . . much better than bars, which I agree are disgusting at this point!!!!!

Only take a minute or two to make.

Here is a link to some exercises designed to increase ankle flexibility.  I haven't tried them so I can't vouch for how well they work, but they seem simple enough.  I'm also pretty sure you'll have better results if you get a sweet pair of socks like the person in the video.

Finished DuNats.  Was going good till I had a flat.  Seemed like a lot of people had flats, but who knows it the first time I did this type of an event.  Finished in 2:27 and change.  Took a while to fix the flat on the rear which was a first for me on this bike.  There was so much road grit that I couldn't get it all out of the tire after I put the new tube in.  I was amazed it made it the rest of the way.  Any ideas for more bullet proof tires?

All and all a pretty good day with some good training and not injuries or pain till I finished and started to cramp up some.  I managed to avoid a guy who crashed right in front of me on a fast turn, but it took about two minute for me to regather myself to start pushing hard again.

Good job on the du!

I rode with some friends today, had a nice time.

Nice job today, even with the flat.  I don't run them myself, but a lot of people use gatorskins and say they are pretty darn flat proof.

Great job on the duathlon, Jack.  Too bad about the flat, but it sounds like you didn't lose too much time fixing it. And avoiding a crash right in front of you--outstanding!

Just got back from three solid days of yoga at a Tibetan Buddhist retreat center located in Soquel, CA (near Santa Cruz).  Friday's practice focused on Yin and Yang approaches to the asanas.  Saturday we had a very active practice of standing asanas in the morning, inversions in the afternoon, and Yoga Nidra (a type of guided meditation) at night.  Finished up today with back bends.  Great veggie fare.  Beautiful locale (and the weather was spectacular--low 70's and sunny).  Got in about a five mile trail run through the 'Enchanted Forest' at 6am yesterday morning (I say about five because the Garmin kept dropping the signal).  Oh, and there were two visiting lamas there who are apparently second and third in rank behind the Dalai Lama himself.  Doesn't get much better than that!

Sounds like a great yoga weekend.  How does all that yoga impact your running?   I generally do yoga after workouts, but sometimes I practice before workouts.  

Congrats on the finish!! You still seemed to have done quite well for all the obstacles that were thrown in your way.

I just bought a pair of conti grand prix 4000. I haven't put them on and used them yet, but I heard these tend to be a good pair. They also come in different colors to choose from!

Sounds like it was a great weekend!! If only I knew what most of those yoga terms were. I am guessing they are different forms of yoga? Hopefully you connected with yourself and are feeling refreshed and ready to go!

Great job on the race, especailly with the flat.  I could see how that would get someone down, but  you just plugged on. Way to go.

Got a PR in my HIM yesterday, despite some fairly tough conditions.  Felt like nutrition and pacing were right on, but hope that over the next 6 months, the pacing can increase without feeling an increase in effort.  Finished in 6:31:02.  Swim sucked in 50:19 (waves, wind and some say long course).  Bike was ok in 3:22:06. Had a strong crosswind almost the whole time.  Run was great in 2:13:08 (not too far off my stand alone PR).  Have some more thoughts in my logs and will try to post a race report tonight.  I'm disappointed in my swim, but happy with the overall effort.  Wore my compression socks all the way home yesterday, so I'm not really sore today at all.  Just got a little too much sun.