Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! (Page 12)

inmyelement - 2011-01-04 8:48 AM Had my first masters swim this morning.  What a great program.  Pretty much what everyone has said about the classes was true.  There was a wide range of swim skills and everyone was very friendly including the instructor.  I'm not even in the slow lane, I'm in the middle .  Couldn't be more happy that I joined.  The fact that they called it a "masters" program is what had me the most intimidated. 

Later today I have my trainer ride and weight training. 

chmoore2 - 2011-01-03 10:33 PM

Did a quick 25 minute run today. Very slow but felt hard. It was pretty cold out at about 25 degrees and i think my bronchitis or pneumonia is still lingering a bit. I bagged the swim i had planned as a result of how difficult the run was. I am training for a HIM on July 17th and have created a custom plan and imported it. 28 weeks in all, those who are interested take a look and let me know what you think. How do you think this compares to some of the paid plans or free ones available here?Spending 45 on the trainer tomorrow, first time on my Xmas gift!!

jmkizer - 2011-01-04 5:52 AM



Don't they use a Camelbak type hydration system in TdF TTs because it's more aero?

newbz - 2011-01-04 9:09 AM It really depends on how much detail you are looking for. I'm not sure if its changed but does the custom plan builder givey ou details or just the total workout minutes? Some of the gold/silver level plans on here are really nice and do a good job of getting you there, plus i know with the gold level at least you also have access to talk to the coaches. Or there is the private coach route. All of them can work but its dependent on how much detail you are looking for vs how much you want laid out up front.

tri808 - 2011-01-04 10:35 AM Thanks dagwoodz,

I will agree that there probably is a lot of tension in my legs.  I've been told you need to kick from the hips...but I suppose I just don't know what that feels like.

I do use a two beat kick, and I do breath every 2 strokes.  I don't think I have too much of a problem of lifting my head when I breathe...as I do keep one eye in the water...and only part of my mouth is above the water line to "sip" air.

I do notice though that some of the better kickers do have that whipping motion in their legs...where their kick is very fluid.  I would imagine my kick looks more like two stiff paddles.

inmyelement - 2011-01-04 8:16 AM



I believe that once you import the plan into your training log is when you get the details.  Prior to that it is just time/distance.  At least that is how it has worked for me.

Dagwoodz - 2011-01-04 3:20 AM

Classic problem, and with a little tweaking, pretty easy to fix.

There are two approaches to take to get your legs closer to the surface and within your aero "tube" in the water.  One has to do with your head, the other has to do with relaxation.  Ideally, you want both to be as effective as possible.  I'm going to go over each one separately.

Without seeing you swim at all, I will wager that your legs are pretty tense when you're kicking.  Tense muscle = sinking muscle.  Relax your legs and use your abdominals, a little hip flexor to kick.  Your ankle should be laterally stiff, but vertically flexible.  This means that it will use the resistance of the water when on the downstroke to straighten out, (and you can give it a very very small whip at the end of the kicking stroke), and almost flattens out on the upstroke.  Not all the way, as you are still providing some propulsion with the upstroke.  If you're swimming distances greater than 200 yds at a clip, I would revert to a "2-beat" kick...i.e. one kick per arm stroke.  Don't force the kick, use it to maintain your stroke rhythm.   Your quads, calves and hamstrings need to be pretty relaxed...your kick should be coming from your core and your glutes.

Ok...on to the head.  There are different ways to orient your head in the water so that the water line is at your forehead.  One is to tilt the head back, lifting the chin.  This is incorrect.  You are placing a "kink" in your spinal column when you do this, taking the generally straight line created by your body and throwing it out of whack.  Your body is going to, through straight physics, compensate by dropping the legs to create balance. 

Ideally what you want to have happen is to be looking at about a 45 degree angle in front of you.  The water line should be at your hairline.  (for those who are balding, or have receding hairlines, my appologies.  Where your hairlines used to be)  When you breath, do NOT turn and lift your head.  Just tilt it slightly to the rear and side...your chin will create a little "pocket" that you can take a breath from with the top part of your mouth.  You won't need a lot...just a sip of air.  Now, I'll caveat that by saying that I breath every 2 strokes.  Always have...the only exception was when I was doing a 100 or 50.  Occasionally during 200's I would go every 4.  Beyond that, every 2...so breathing by "sipping" the air was plenty. 

ETA: When you take your "sip", turn your head back to it's normal position.  Don't wait for your recovering arm to "force" your head back in the water.  Doing this throws the timing of the stroke off and you'll start swimming crooked.

Hope all this helps!

jgerbodegrant - 2011-01-04 1:28 PM

The kickboard will help a lot.  You can also just do drills at the side of the pool if you don't make progress with the board.  Just hang on the side of the pool and do sets of 30 second intervals or something like that.  It's a little easier to focus on form and go at a slower pace holding onto the side than trying to stay afloat on a board.  Fins are also a good tool for a weak kick.  If you have them or access to them, it makes a kickboard much more bearable as you actually make progress in the water and the fins will make your feet go through the proper motion that Dagwoodz was describing.  With the wide surface, you're not going to be able to propel the fins up and down if your feet are not correct.

ClydeNewb - 2011-01-04 2:41 PM

The kickboard will help a lot.  You can also just do drills at the side of the pool if you don't make progress with the board.  Just hang on the side of the pool and do sets of 30 second intervals or something like that.  It's a little easier to focus on form and go at a slower pace holding onto the side than trying to stay afloat on a board.  Fins are also a good tool for a weak kick.  If you have them or access to them, it makes a kickboard much more bearable as you actually make progress in the water and the fins will make your feet go through the proper motion that Dagwoodz was describing.  With the wide surface, you're not going to be able to propel the fins up and down if your feet are not correct.

Dagwoodz - 2011-01-04 3:39 PM

Regarding kicking,

Having been a distance swimmer, I didn't have the powerful kick that the sprinters had because doing anything over 200, a powerful 4-6 beat kick was actually detrimental to performance due to the increased amount of oxygen that is used by the muscles in the legs, so my kick was used more to keep my body in line.  The only time I really kicked hard in the 500 was off the wall while streamlined, and in the final 75-100yds.  During kicking drills, sprinters would fly up and down the pool, while I would go at a much slower pace. 

What alot of people end up doing when working on the kick is the use too much knee bend, which dropps the legs in the water and keeps them from going forward as they are creating more drag than propulsion the kick is creating.  This causes people to kick harder, tensing up the leg muscles, causing them to drop more.  Then they'll bend their knees more to get their feet to the surface, creating even more drag...and sometimes end up moving backwards.

Using the kickboard, the only muscles in the body which should be tight should be your abdominals, lower back muscles and your hip flexors.  But that should be only when you are contracting them. 

One of the things to concentrate on when doing kicking drills with a kickboard is to relax your neck, shoulders and arms.  It queues the rest of the body to relax those muscles that aren't working.  You should be able to lay your head on the kickboard.  (this also brings your body more in line, as holding your head up will cause your hips and legs to drop)  If you feel your hips dropping in the water, gently press down on the kickboard to bring them back up.  The kick should be taking place just under the surface of the water.  If your feet are coming out of the water, you are bringing air into the equation, which isn't going to help you.  The less air that you have involved in your kick stroke the better, as you'll be moving water, not air.

Fins like these:

http://www.trisports.com/zoomers.html

are perfect for working on your kicking.  They have short flippers on the ends, so it allows you to keep a higher turnover rate, and the extra resistance created will help instill into your legs the proper foot movement. 

Another thing to work on is ankle flexibility.  Before you get into the pool, sit down and work on ankle rotations.  Sit with one leg out in front of you, bent and relaxed.  Take your other leg and bend it up towards you.  Grab your foot and start rotating it around with your hand.  This should be slow and controlled.  Try and stretch out the tendons and muscles in your ankle prior to the workout.  Eventually, your ankle flexibility will increase, helping with your kicking.