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Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: (Page 12)
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 2011-02-18 3:37 PM in reply to: #3362224 |
 Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI:Brock Samson - 2011-02-18 1:20 PM TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 4:12 PM Brock Samson - 2011-02-18 4:09 PM TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 1:36 PM Brock Samson - 2011-02-18 1:31 PM TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 1:09 PM Persoanlly I do not see a prpoblem with an "assult" on unions. Unions are an obstruction to the turnaround of the US economy. I am neither pro-union or anti-union, neither am I pro-managment or anti-management. I believe that both parties have their short comings and both parties have there merits. However, I find the idea that the elimination of unions will then somehow result in a more fair and equitable working structure almost laughable. To believe this you must believe that managment and owners, out of the shear goodness of thier hearts and their own personal desire to ensure fair wages, will give to their employees. History, and recent history, has demonstrated the contrary. Good and successful companies do understand that they must treat their employees well if they want to maintain a happy and productive workforce. How do you explain the vast majority of employees in the US who are NOT part of a union making a good and sometimes GREAT living? Almost every single modern employee benefit, that we take for granted now, unions forced from the hands of ownership and management. Safe working conditions, child labor laws, minimum wages, health care, retirement. These were not freely given to workers/employees, they were forced concessions due to union pressure, and then became standardized through subsequent regulations. I conceded they *had* their place. However these things are now laws. I see you're from Fla., the reason I also have a problem with the "union" issue as it relates to public employees is that less than 5% of all public employees are in a union. (The Wisc. thing is apparently different, although I would be interested to see the actual percentage of public employees in Wisc. that are members of unions) In Fla., which is a right to work state, this "union" issue is also being bandied about talking about reducing salaries/retirement benefits/health benefits. And it's a red herring because the vast majority, over 95% of all Fla. public employees are NOT in a union. But, the anti-union sentiment is being used as a public argument to sway popular opinion against public employees. From the reports and arguments you would think that every public employee is a union member and all of our salaries and benefits are the result of collective bargaining. It simply isn't true. Very true. Which is why the FL situation is different from the WI situation. While there are some similar points you cannot compare them apples to apples. True, but they are trying to do the exact same thing to public employees in Fla. Reduction in benefits, reduction in retirement, reduction in health insurance. (for instance, the Governor has proposed changing the Florida Retirement service basis for calculating retirment income fomr the current calculation of the average of your last five years of pay to a new calculation of the average of all of your years of service. This will cost me about $40,000 a year!) When an entitiy be it private or public runs out of money, someone is going to get stiffed, whoever is going to get a reduction isn't going to like it. Every decision in life has some gamble to it, you don't like the results of your choice as it goes right now, that's life. |
| 2011-02-18 3:42 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Extreme Veteran  312 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: And most public sector workers do not have to worry about layoffs - especially later in their career. Someone said that they went to the public sector (or people are attracted to it) because of security and benefits. Unfortunately things change, governments can't afford what they could. You cant have states go bacnkrupt or tax citizens to death just because people expected something. I have gone to several companies and then they got acquired and my job changed virtually overnight - is that fair no, is it reality yes. |
| 2011-02-18 3:49 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Champion 7347    SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: So let's say Caterpillar, who is a massive employer in the US, decided overnight to tell their employees that they would have to contribute more towards retirements, pay more for HC and that they would not be getting ANY raises (as opposed to tying them to the CI) for the next few years. Would this make the news? Maybe. For one day. (And this happened BTW) If the employees at Caterpillar did not like this they could quit and find a job elsewhere. So why are public employees so different? |
| 2011-02-18 4:09 PM in reply to: #3362280 |
Iron Donkey 38643  , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 3:49 PM So let's say Caterpillar, who is a massive employer in the US, decided overnight to tell their employees that they would have to contribute more towards retirements, pay more for HC and that they would not be getting ANY raises (as opposed to tying them to the CI) for the next few years. Would this make the news? Maybe. For one day. (And this happened BTW) If the employees at Caterpillar did not like this they could quit and find a job elsewhere. So why are public employees so different? Are you trying to make me quit my job? |
| 2011-02-18 8:05 PM in reply to: #3362280 |
Master 2621 Almaden Valley, San Jose, California | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 1:49 PM So let's say Caterpillar, who is a massive employer in the US, decided overnight to tell their employees that they would have to contribute more towards retirements, pay more for HC and that they would not be getting ANY raises (as opposed to tying them to the CI) for the next few years. Would this make the news? Maybe. For one day. (And this happened BTW) If the employees at Caterpillar did not like this they could quit and find a job elsewhere. So why are public employees so different? X 2 |
| 2011-02-18 8:55 PM in reply to: #3362128 |
Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: JSA - 2011-02-18 2:25 PM Threats made against GOP senators By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel Feb. 18, 2011 2:15 p.m. | Madison -- Republican senators have been receiving threats, said John Hogan, chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau). For that reason, Hogan said that he won't release the senators' locations once they leave the Capitol. Sen. Randy Hopper (R-Fond du Lac), who has several prisons employing many state workers in or near his district, said he had received threats such as "I have a billy club and I will use it." He said he had not received any death threats. Hopper said he "ought never be frightened in doing my job" and vowed he would not be intimidated Billy clubs make you twitch, but when Vicki McKenna's followers threaten with guns, it's all fine and dandy. Oy. I got back from the Capitol about 2 hours ago. This has become a national movement. This bill is not going to pass as it's currently structured, on that you have my word. Union workers, leaders and even good ole Jesse Jackson said that we know that the money is needed, but do not take away the right to bargain collectively. Walker is on a political vendetta to dismantle unions, the UW System, seemingly public schools as well...he's on a power trip and the nation has realized that this is just the beginning of sweeping changes across the country. They aren't going to stand for it. We had supporters from San Francisco, Texas, Boston, teachers from Illinois, Minnesota...and those are just the ones that I saw. I'm probably missing some. This has become a national battle and Walker grossly miscalculated here. He thought he could jam this bill down the throats of the Wisconsin unions (except those that contributed to his campaign. Shocker. Thankfully the firefighters have more decency than him.) and figured he'd get some protests. He had no clue that this was coming his way. I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one.  |
| 2011-02-18 9:37 PM in reply to: #3362280 |
Veteran 416 Denver | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 2:49 PM So let's say Caterpillar, who is a massive employer in the US, decided overnight to tell their employees that they would have to contribute more towards retirements, pay more for HC and that they would not be getting ANY raises (as opposed to tying them to the CI) for the next few years. Would this make the news? Maybe. For one day. (And this happened BTW) If the employees at Caterpillar did not like this they could quit and find a job elsewhere. So why are public employees so different? So you would be okay with police, firefighters, & teachers quitting their jobs?? Yea.....that wouldn't lead to immediate chaos!!! |
| 2011-02-18 9:43 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Master 2447 White Oak, Texas | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: your right this is a national fight and we need to get these public unions disbanded the teachers who are lying and calling in sick to go protest need to be fired. |
| 2011-02-18 9:45 PM in reply to: #3362606 |
Master 1529 Living in the past | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 8:55 PM JSA - 2011-02-18 2:25 PM Threats made against GOP senators By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel Feb. 18, 2011 2:15 p.m. | Madison -- Republican senators have been receiving threats, said John Hogan, chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau). For that reason, Hogan said that he won't release the senators' locations once they leave the Capitol. Sen. Randy Hopper (R-Fond du Lac), who has several prisons employing many state workers in or near his district, said he had received threats such as "I have a billy club and I will use it." He said he had not received any death threats. Hopper said he "ought never be frightened in doing my job" and vowed he would not be intimidated Billy clubs make you twitch, but when Vicki McKenna's followers threaten with guns, it's all fine and dandy. Oy. I got back from the Capitol about 2 hours ago. This has become a national movement. This bill is not going to pass as it's currently structured, on that you have my word. Union workers, leaders and even good ole Jesse Jackson said that we know that the money is needed, but do not take away the right to bargain collectively. Walker is on a political vendetta to dismantle unions, the UW System, seemingly public schools as well...he's on a power trip and the nation has realized that this is just the beginning of sweeping changes across the country. They aren't going to stand for it. We had supporters from San Francisco, Texas, Boston, teachers from Illinois, Minnesota...and those are just the ones that I saw. I'm probably missing some. This has become a national battle and Walker grossly miscalculated here. He thought he could jam this bill down the throats of the Wisconsin unions (except those that contributed to his campaign. Shocker. Thankfully the firefighters have more decency than him.) and figured he'd get some protests. He had no clue that this was coming his way. I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one. Forgive me if I find the conclusion you've drawn about the outcome of this process dubious, but I shouldn't be surprised with you walking around inside the union echo chamber for the last week and with the Reverend in the house and with POTUS putting his thumb on the scale for his benefactors. Now that I say it, maybe you'll be proven right, but for all the wrong reasons, IMO. Forgive me also my skepticism of your contention that the unions recognize the need for financial concessions; yes maybe now at the end of a pointy stick or if you consider mandatory furlough days as willing acknowledgment. For me, what continues to get lost in all this talk about "human rights" and the pant-load of collective bargaining being a birth-right is the stone cold fact that this state is facing a 3B dollar budget deficit for the next cycle. The 'customer' (taxpayer) is unable to pay state and local government workers the amount they are getting now. Cuts are coming and they are going to be drastic. State/local govt. workers should NOT expect the status quo and CERTAINLY not more in the coming years. I wouldn't care if union workers collectively bargained aware and respectful of the current situation, but I have no reason to believe they would. Point no further than their attempts during the lame duck session. All ya protesters should get comfy as I suspect you won't much like the reality of the two-year budget coming soon. About that you have MY word. |
| 2011-02-18 10:05 PM in reply to: #3362645 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Dino019 - 2011-02-18 10:37 PM TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 2:49 PM So let's say Caterpillar, who is a massive employer in the US, decided overnight to tell their employees that they would have to contribute more towards retirements, pay more for HC and that they would not be getting ANY raises (as opposed to tying them to the CI) for the next few years. Would this make the news? Maybe. For one day. (And this happened BTW) If the employees at Caterpillar did not like this they could quit and find a job elsewhere. So why are public employees so different? So you would be okay with police, firefighters, & teachers quitting their jobs?? Yea.....that wouldn't lead to immediate chaos!!! You could say the same of air traffic controllers. Reagan took care of that problem and the world did not end. Edited by TriRSquared 2011-02-18 10:06 PM |
| 2011-02-18 10:07 PM in reply to: #3362606 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 8:55 PM JSA - 2011-02-18 2:25 PM Threats made against GOP senators By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel Feb. 18, 2011 2:15 p.m. | Madison -- Republican senators have been receiving threats, said John Hogan, chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau). For that reason, Hogan said that he won't release the senators' locations once they leave the Capitol. Sen. Randy Hopper (R-Fond du Lac), who has several prisons employing many state workers in or near his district, said he had received threats such as "I have a billy club and I will use it." He said he had not received any death threats. Hopper said he "ought never be frightened in doing my job" and vowed he would not be intimidated Billy clubs make you twitch, but when Vicki McKenna's followers threaten with guns, it's all fine and dandy. Oy. I got back from the Capitol about 2 hours ago. This has become a national movement. This bill is not going to pass as it's currently structured, on that you have my word. Union workers, leaders and even good ole Jesse Jackson said that we know that the money is needed, but do not take away the right to bargain collectively. Walker is on a political vendetta to dismantle unions, the UW System, seemingly public schools as well...he's on a power trip and the nation has realized that this is just the beginning of sweeping changes across the country. They aren't going to stand for it. We had supporters from San Francisco, Texas, Boston, teachers from Illinois, Minnesota...and those are just the ones that I saw. I'm probably missing some. This has become a national battle and Walker grossly miscalculated here. He thought he could jam this bill down the throats of the Wisconsin unions (except those that contributed to his campaign. Shocker. Thankfully the firefighters have more decency than him.) and figured he'd get some protests. He had no clue that this was coming his way. I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one. I could be wrong, but I think you might be underestimating how strong a stance Walker is willing to take and his "miscalculation". It's real easy to caught up in all the vitriol (sp?) when you're in the liberal capital of the Midwest and many in the crowd feel like this is their chance to be in the history books that generations after will read about.........I honestly believe that's why many of the students are there. Outside of Madison, in the real world, the scene is much different...........much like the election results. I honestly don't remember what the numbers were.........somewhere between 60 and 65% for Walker, correct? What do you think those numbers would have been if you would take out the city of Madison? I'm just saying that judging things by what is going on in Madison skews things the truth. As for the people at the rally that voted for Walker...sure, there were probably some. Many? I would question that. Do you think some of those people who were saying that they voted for Walker, maybe, didn't vote for Walker, but were saying that they did to appear sooooo "enlightened"? As far as having supporters from around the country? Sure, no doubt. Do you think there are supporters, from every state in the union, on the opposite side? Supporters that can't take a "sick day" to be in Madison, WI? You talk about sweeping changes across the country......yeah, i think there are sweeping changes going on because that's what the voting public wants, and feels needs, to avoid spending this country into a massive debt that we can't recover from. It started with Christie in NJ and Walker is picking up the ball and carrying it...........LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.......BEFORE HE GOT ELECTED BY A LARGE MAJORITY IN THIS STATE. In closing, Jesse Jackson defending the position you share should give anybody pause. |
| 2011-02-18 10:10 PM in reply to: #3362606 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 9:55 PM I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one. (snip.. a pic of some guy with a badly made sign) Oh my God. I'm gonna pull out my hair... Walker RAN ON A PLATFORM OF CUTTING PUBLIC SECTOR WAGES. He told you he was going to do this and you guys still voted him in. And now you feel betrayed? He told you exactly what he was going to do for goodness sake. http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2009/11/13/walker-targets-wages-and-benefits/ |
| 2011-02-18 10:14 PM in reply to: #3362682 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 10:10 PM UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 9:55 PM I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one. (snip.. a pic of some guy with a badly made sign) Oh my God. I'm gonna pull out my hair... Walker RAN ON A PLATFORM OF CUTTING PUBLIC SECTOR WAGES. He told you he was going to do this and you guys still voted him in. And now you feel betrayed? He told you exactly what he was going to do for goodness sake. http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2009/11/13/walker-targets-wages-and-benefits/ But he's not here to argue...you saw that, right? ;-) |
| 2011-02-18 10:28 PM in reply to: #3362682 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: TriRSquared - 2011-02-18 8:10 PM UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 9:55 PM I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one. (snip.. a pic of some guy with a badly made sign) Oh my God. I'm gonna pull out my hair... Walker RAN ON A PLATFORM OF CUTTING PUBLIC SECTOR WAGES. He told you he was going to do this and you guys still voted him in. And now you feel betrayed? He told you exactly what he was going to do for goodness sake. http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2009/11/13/walker-targets-wages-and-benefits/[/QUOTE] What you expect the dolt to put on the sign, "I can't believe this guy I voted for told the truth and is doing what he said he would,,,,, what's the world coming to when politicians follow through on their campaign promises?" |
| 2011-02-18 10:33 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Expert 1192 Oak Creek, WI | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I love that this is bringing national attention to this issue... The effect I hope is that our fellow like minded politicians show the same strength as Walker in tackling these important issues... Hopefully this is just the beginning of a broader national movement towards responsible governance and fiscal policy...Between Scott Walker and Paul Ryan, I finally have hope that we have the right leadership to start fixing our state and country... |
| 2011-02-18 10:33 PM in reply to: #3362606 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Are you going back to the Capital tomorrow? I hope so. The Tea Party/Walker Rally starts at Noon. It will be a completely different show. Should be fun. |
| 2011-02-18 11:09 PM in reply to: #3362702 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: |
| 2011-02-18 11:11 PM in reply to: #3362606 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 6:55 PM JSA - 2011-02-18 2:25 PM Threats made against GOP senators By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel Feb. 18, 2011 2:15 p.m. | Madison -- Republican senators have been receiving threats, said John Hogan, chief of staff to Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau). For that reason, Hogan said that he won't release the senators' locations once they leave the Capitol. Sen. Randy Hopper (R-Fond du Lac), who has several prisons employing many state workers in or near his district, said he had received threats such as "I have a billy club and I will use it." He said he had not received any death threats. Hopper said he "ought never be frightened in doing my job" and vowed he would not be intimidated Billy clubs make you twitch, but when Vicki McKenna's followers threaten with guns, it's all fine and dandy. Oy. I got back from the Capitol about 2 hours ago. This has become a national movement. This bill is not going to pass as it's currently structured, on that you have my word. Union workers, leaders and even good ole Jesse Jackson said that we know that the money is needed, but do not take away the right to bargain collectively. Walker is on a political vendetta to dismantle unions, the UW System, seemingly public schools as well...he's on a power trip and the nation has realized that this is just the beginning of sweeping changes across the country. They aren't going to stand for it. We had supporters from San Francisco, Texas, Boston, teachers from Illinois, Minnesota...and those are just the ones that I saw. I'm probably missing some. This has become a national battle and Walker grossly miscalculated here. He thought he could jam this bill down the throats of the Wisconsin unions (except those that contributed to his campaign. Shocker. Thankfully the firefighters have more decency than him.) and figured he'd get some protests. He had no clue that this was coming his way. I'm not here to argue these points. If you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I'm sure 90% of you do. I'll tell you this though: there are MANY people that voted for Scott Walker at this rally. MANY. This is just one. I'm saying this is BS unless you can provide some evidence! |
| 2011-02-18 11:24 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
| Member 169 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Ok, we all get it now, governement spending is bad, even when it's on ordinary Americans. So when is the GOP / Tea Party movement going to start protesting about Federal military spending? How much have we spent in Iraq? If you're up in arms about local state taxes being wasted then I can't imagine how you must feel about all the other wasteful spending. Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but it is some what related. Please start listing other wasteful government spending. And please don't start with the stimulus package or the auto bailout, that's been beat silly. |
| 2011-02-18 11:36 PM in reply to: #3357526 |
Extreme Veteran 499 Racine WI | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: As a WI state employee, here is my concern. I have no problem with the financial aspects of Walkers plan (more contribution to health care and retirement) but his statement about state employees not giving their "fair share" is not fair or completely accurate without considering that:
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| 2011-02-19 12:16 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
| Master 1895 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I guess I don't see how this bill is "dissolving" the unions or preventing anyone from "collective barganing". From what I've read, people would now have a CHOICE as to if they want to be a part of the union, rather than automatically having their union dues taken from their paychecks. And, what is so bad about having a vote on pay increases over the rate of inflation? I don't see how this is "completely doing away" with unions. Did I miss something? "Walker wants to limit collective bargaining to the issue of wages, and cap increases to the rate of inflation, with a voter referendum needed for bigger increases. * Walker's proposal also would prohibit employer collection of union dues and members of collective bargaining units would not be required to pay dues. Contracts would be limited to one year, and collective bargaining units must take annual votes to maintain certification as a union." |
| 2011-02-19 7:28 AM in reply to: #3362702 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: JSA - 2011-02-18 10:33 PM Are you going back to the Capital tomorrow? I hope so. The Tea Party/Walker Rally starts at Noon. It will be a completely different show. Should be fun. An American Dream is made through compromise. |
| 2011-02-19 7:37 AM in reply to: #3362727 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 9:24 PM Ok, we all get it now, governement spending is bad, even when it's on ordinary Americans. So when is the GOP / Tea Party movement going to start protesting about Federal military spending? How much have we spent in Iraq? If you're up in arms about local state taxes being wasted then I can't imagine how you must feel about all the other wasteful spending. Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but it is some what related. Please start listing other wasteful government spending. And please don't start with the stimulus package or the auto bailout, that's been beat silly. Good question. To keep this thread from going off topic I started this one |
| 2011-02-19 7:51 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Here is a link to an interesting article on WI and an exerpt out of it. The teachers’ union on strike? Wisconsin parents should go on strike against the teachers’ union. A friend e-mailed me to say that the graduation rate in Milwaukee public schools is 46 percent. The graduation rate for African-Americans in Milwaukee public schools is 34 percent. Shouldn’t somebody be protesting that? Edited to add the CPUSA's side fair & balanced ain't I Edited by crusevegas 2011-02-19 7:58 AM |
| 2011-02-19 8:02 AM in reply to: #3362801 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-19 5:28 AM JSA - 2011-02-18 10:33 PM Are you going back to the Capital tomorrow? I hope so. The Tea Party/Walker Rally starts at Noon. It will be a completely different show. Should be fun. An American Dream is made through compromise. Cause hard work, risk and suffering is so yesterday. |
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