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2011-05-06 5:26 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

 

Not that hard.  Obviously, if the course is packed, it may be tough and actually require you to stop.  I've never needed to though and you just slow down a little (they don't put them in places where you'll be flying down hill) reach out and grab one just like running.  Have someone hold a bottle and practice bikign by if you want to see if you can do it easily.

Just keep in mind it's very unsafe to stop without notice - people behind you are looking for bottles and may only have one hand on the bars.  Pull off to the side AFTER the exchange and out of the way if you miss a bottle - a volunteer shiould bring one to you, and you'll only lose a few seconds.

Thanks.  I might practice Smile

I had a great day.  Did not do any training at all.  Had a wonderful day with the kids.  It was really nice to have a little break.  Now I'm making popcorn and getting ready to watch Tangled.

Tomorrow I'll do a 30 mile bike/ 10k run. 

Christy



2011-05-06 5:39 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Sorry, Joe, about your son. My kiddos are grown now, but do remember how tough it is seeing their disappointment and pain. I remember, too, the pressure of going through the senior year/college times. I am blessed to be able to race tri's with my kiddos now. We have a lot of fun and get to visit frequently for training,etc.

Good luck again to all who is racing! You've put in some hard work and are doing great things for your health and body. Most of the nerves will go away after that first jump into the pool!

 

 

2011-05-06 7:45 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
slornow - 2011-05-06 8:10 AMGot some discouraging news yesterday.  My son, a HS junior, has a stress fracture in left ankle area and cannot run for at least 4 weeks.  Unfortunately, that is the rest of his track season and includes the meet he was focused on for early June.  He wants to run at a Div I college and will have the chance to do so but wanted to have a good time in his event, the mile, to get the attention of some of the schools he is interested in.  I know he is dissappointed as he had a tough ending to his cross country season when in his main post season race he got tripped up on a downhill section and suffered a nasty fall. Still finished the race but 15-20 seconds slower than his goal time.  He is a good student so will he have some great opportunities academically but I know how important running is to him and he was hoping it may give him a little better admission chance at some of his "reach" schools if he was a "recruited athlete".  Hopefully, he will be healed in 4-5 weeks and can have a good summer of training...hard thing will be getting him to ease back into it.  I think it is harder to see your children discouraged/dissappointed than it is to deal with it yourself.  Not much you can do or say to make them feel better.  I think we all know how hard it is to work dilligently toward a goal only to have an injury or unexpected circumstance knock us off course.....guess for our kids its part of growing up.

Now, for some resulting good news. ...we were scheduled to be at his "big" meet the first weekend of June.  Now that those plans have changed I will be able to do our local Sprint which is only 2 miles from the house. Its a great event and  was my first race 2 years ago.

Best of luck to our racers this weekend..looking forward to the race reports!

Randy       
I'm sorry to hear about your son. I can't imagine how hard that must be for both of you. I hope he heals quickly and is able to go to the school of his dreams.
2011-05-07 2:22 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - Open

I have a question building off of your question. On my training plan, which is building up to a sprint I have running and biking on Mon, Wed, and Fri with swimming on Tues, Thurs, and Sat. On the days that I do my running and biking am I suppose to do them back to back or do one then the other later?

2011-05-07 2:29 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
I am!!!! Its the Breast Cancer Fight for a Cure race. Its a 5k run, I know its not near a tri but its good practice and its for a good cause. Who else is racing?
2011-05-07 2:36 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Randy, sorry to hear about your son. Hopefully he will have a quick recovery.

When I log my workout for the day in my training log I also blog a bit about my workout. Is there a way so that my facebook friends and family can also veiw them?

So I went out garage saleing today and stumbled upon a guy who lived on a small dirt road. As we were talking I noticed he had a private lake with a dock on it. As we were talking he mentioned that his daughter used to swim in the lake to train. I mentioned to him that I also am training. He offered me access to the lake to practice OWS!!! I'm supper excited about it, while the lake is not huge it offers me the experince I will need before my first tri.



2011-05-07 6:43 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - Open
Hubbie - 2011-05-07 2:22 AM

I have a question building off of your question. On my training plan, which is building up to a sprint I have running and biking on Mon, Wed, and Fri with swimming on Tues, Thurs, and Sat. On the days that I do my running and biking am I suppose to do them back to back or do one then the other later?



Beth-I would think the bike/run would be 2 separate workouts....like morning run evening bike.  It would be unusual to have a plan with that many brick workouts.

Great news on the lake access.  Any OWS practice before a race is a big plus!

Good luck with your 5K

Randy
2011-05-07 5:10 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
Quiet here today.  Hope everyone is out enjoying the weekend

Good workout this morning.  40 miles on the bike with a mix of intervals followed by 2.5 mile brick run.  Had a nice lunch out with the family and then a big nap..............NICE.

Randy 
2011-05-07 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

I'm working on both the "train hard" and "have fun" elements of our little group this weekend.

Today, did a 4 mi run + 50 min swim (thanks for the ladder idea, Adam ... awesome way to log laps and break up some of the monotony). Tomorrow is a 1 hr 45 min bike ride. I'm hoping I can do it outside but the weather still hasn't been great so it might be another trainer ride. I really don't mind the trainer since I can catch up on TV, and since traffic is so bad where I live I feel much safer than being on the road; I also like that I don't get stopped every 2 minutes by cars or lights.

As for the having fun, I think I may have drank an entire gallon of beer last night. Felt good today so maybe the carbs were a good thing, LOL! Tomorrow lots of mother's day eating. Good thing I'm working off so many calories.

Can't wait to read about everyone's races this weekend!

2011-05-08 12:33 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Today was a super busy day. T-ball practice with my son, t-ball pictures with my daughter, a car wash fundraiser and bake sale, then a t-ball game for my daughter, all this before 1pm, then my wife was nice enough to take the kids so I could go on a ride.

I was excited about the ride but here in vegas in the afternoon the temperature rises and with that so do the winds. so it was 95, sunny, and windy. The first part of my out and back was sweet. Wind at my back for 15 miles makes hills feel like nothing not to mention the 40 mph cruising with a slight downhill. Ohh the Back part. The wind was relentless 22 mph steady wind with 30 mph gusts. Well at least I got a ride in, and if its windy on race day thats ok I know what its like.

2011-05-08 5:36 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

I had a great day yesterday.  Did a long ride and a short run.  My plan for the bike was to go as fast as I could. I wanted to see how I would feel on the run if I went all out on the bike.  As soon as I started I knew that wasn't going to happen.  My right hip and hamstring were really tight.  I stopped 3 miles in to stretch.  It didn't help much.  I ended up picking an easy gear and doing my best.  I felt good about my nutrition.  Learned I need another water bottle. I was also able to spend 85-90% of my ride using my aero bars.  That is a big improvement for me. 

I wanted to run 6 miles, but I didn't have any water and it was hot. I was also pressed for time so I ended up running 2 miles.  I felt great on the run.  Couldn't believe how fast I was going.  Fast for me Smile My legs felt more like jello, less like bricks.  I had a hard time slowing them down.  I almost fell a couple of times. 

Today I'm tilling my garden and planting veggies! 

Next week is my last hard week, then a week of tapering before my first race of the season.

Happy Mother's Day to all the moms in the group.

Christy



2011-05-08 6:31 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
Hope all the Moms in our group had a great Mother's Day.

Got in a run and an easy ride this afternoon mixed in with some chores around the house.

Looking forward to hearing how things went for our racers.

Randy 
2011-05-08 6:37 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Here we go...!!

Before I begin, let me first list my biggest fears:
1. My goggles break
2. The attached sports bra in my Tri Suit comes unzipped
3. I get a flat
4. I fall and trip during the run and completely humiliate myself

3:45 a.m. came quick after a restless night, a crying baby at 1 a.m. and checking the clock every hour - I was sure my alarm had gone off at least 12 times. Everything was ready to go, I just needed the baby, my gear, hubby, and breakfast… off we go. We drove separate. We don't have a bike rack and I can't put the bike in the car with the baby. No big deal. It's about an hour drive, I have a lot to think about, and my emotions are running high. Relax Karla, you've been training. You're not going to die. It's just a race.

It's 5:15 a.m. my husband and I pull up to the race site and get front row parking. I think us and about 25 other participants were there, so we hung out for a minute. I was trying to figure out what to do, where to go, what to grab first out of the car. By then, transition was open. I walk toward the entrance, got my markings, my bike and helmet checked, and in I go. I got transition set up in oh… four minutes?! I felt silly getting there so early! Off to get my chip, go to the bathroom, and back to check my station.

At about 6:15 I decided to start checking my goggles. They had been leaking in practice a little, so I wanted to make sure they were tight and ready to go when all of a sudden… SNAP. The strap broke. I kept as calm as I could, I'm a swimmer, I know how to fix this right?! Yes of course: grab the extra pair that I didn't bring. David keeps telling me, it's fine, ask the director for an extra pair, and I continually told myself I can fix them. Twenty minutes later they were fixed to a point that they would suffice. Phew.

About that time my parents showed up, we gave them a quick 'this is what's happening', and off I go to stand with my wave. I'm not big on stretching before a race, but I did stand there shaking out my arms and legs, doing some shoulder rolls, trying not to get worked up about what people are saying around me: the water is ridiculously cold and it smells like fish. Nice.

Seven minutes to start and all of a sudden… snap. Oh dear God, my sports bra just came undone. So I calmly walk over to mom, have her hold up a blanket as I fix biggest fear number two. Are you kidding?? What else can go wrong?!

I'm standing with my wave, about middle of the pack, or three people deep, five wide. I'm in a good place, I don't want to get all big headed and start in the very front, some of these girls look like they've done this before. Wrong. So wrong.

The Swim
As soon as I hit the water all hell broke loose. The girl in front of me apparently found the end of the boat ramp, went completely under and I swear, I thought she wasn't coming back up. She did, and I went. I started out with my head out of the water as if I'm playing water polo. I don't know what happened, maybe it was everyone around me, maybe the water was a tad on the cold side, maybe my nerves took over… but I start hyper-ventilating, and I couldn't catch my breath. I didn't know what to do. I tried putting my face in the water and that made it worse. I was as if I were suffocating. I had only one choice… flip over and swim backstroke. So I did. And I swam the whole darn thing backstroke, except to turn and see where the buoys were, and to make sure I wasn't too far off course. I tried to flip and swim freestyle, but again, I just got freaked out. I knew I was nearing the end and all of a sudden a lifeguard said: 4 yards. I then flipped over and swam in, two guys were there to help us out of the water. I didn't bother turning back to see how many from my wave were left, but the wave after me hadn't gone yet, so I felt pretty good about it.

Place: 6/53
Time: 5:01.7

T1: 19/53, 2:11.3

What would I do different? I will absolutely start in the first row next time. I will start off doing freestyle, but if needed, backstroke is perfectly fine by me. That's my event, other than distance, might as well take advantage!

The Bike
I don't know what to say here. It was a winding path, one tiny downhill, one tiny uphill, and the winds were against us the entire way. (Please excuse my lack of technological terms here!) Couple things: USAT Rules: single file, no twosies. The first two girls I passed I guess wanted to chit chat their way through the bike, fine by me, but MOVE and quite blocking the way! They were finally stopped by the officials and told them to single file it, ha!
The ride was nice, it was peaceful. And by that I mean, I was able to gather my thoughts and focus. I passed a few people, a few people passed me, all in all it was a good ride.

Place: 35/53
Time: 29:46.8
Pace: 16.1

T2: 11/53, 49.3

What would I do different? I definitely need some training on my bike. I didn't touch my gears, they were fine, but I really need to know HOW to use them. I will also be on the bike more during this next training, which should help with speed… maybe?

The Run
Ah, the dreaded run! The path was out and back, nothing special. I take that back, there was a field of buffalo at the turnaround. That's as special as it got!
I took off taking it easy. I was about 1/4 mile out and my hands started tingling. For whatever reason, I could not get it off my mind, it just bothered me. I ended up doing a jog/walk for the first 3/4 mile and shaking my hands out. What I did notice, however, my legs were fine. Nothing like they felt on Friday's brick… I thought that was interesting.
As I came up to the turn, I grabbed the Gatorade and decided at that moment I was not going to stop running, no matter how bad I wanted to. I could see the finish line. OK, not really, but I certainly had the visual in my head the whole way home. I was on the last 1/4 mile when I saw a friend beginning her run. We cheered as we passed by, and for some reason I just felt like I needed to step it up. Maybe my adrenaline was kicking in, maybe I didn't want to walk through the finish line, or maybe it was the crowd yelling: Great Job 126!! Whatever made me go, worked. I sprinted to the end, held my arms up as I crossed the finished line, and smiled the biggest smile since giving birth! What a feeling!! What a rush!! What an accomplishment!!

Place: 45/53
Time: 24:22.1
Pace: 12:11

What would I do different? We all know running is not my thing. This will definitely be my area of focus for the next race. I hope to improve, time wise and endurance wise.

Overall:
What a fantastic day it was!! I can honestly say I had a great time, despite some minor mishaps BEFORE the race - thank God nothing major, and everything was fixable. I WILL be doing another Triathlon, August 14th, the same race, longer distance. I have 13 weeks to train, and I know exactly which area to train hardest: the run! Oh, and I'm sure I'll throw in a few open water swims too.
It was hard to tell who was more excited that I finished: me, my parents, or my husband! This was definitely an experience I will never forget. Thank you so much for those who have supported me through this journey. I have learned a lot, and I know I have a lot still to learn. My Triathlon journey is just beginning… now on to the next one!

Overall Place: 195/326
Age Group Place: 36/53
Time: 1:02:11

For the record, I thought there were 500 participants, at least that is what we were told. So I'm now pretty bummed that I didn't make the top half. Oh well, I did the best I could for a first timer!

 

2011-05-08 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
Way to go Karla.  First one in the books.  Great job!

Randy
2011-05-08 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
Karla, GREAT JOB! It was fun reading your race review. I, too, was so relieved to finish my first race...a St. Patrick Day sprint this year. What a sense of accomplishment! Happy Mother's Day!
2011-05-08 7:00 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Karla-Great race!  You had a lot go wrong before you even started.  Way to keep it together! Sounds like a pretty good Mother's Day Smile

Christy



2011-05-08 7:12 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Thanks ya'll!! Christy, I have no idea how I kept my composure. I think I had let it all out on the way there, and at that point it was in God's hands!! I was either going to finish or fail, so glad I finished!! Tomorrow I'm buying new goggles!!

2011-05-08 8:21 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
Awesome job Karla!  You were in my thoughts, loved reading your race report!  Your right, it's just the beginning  
 
A migraine sabotaged all plans of training late in the day yesterday.
 
Today, I had a 3 hour window after church and before meeting up with family for dinner.  Being Mother's Day, my every wish was granted...so, I asked if I could do a "mock race".  With a little assistance from my husband we headed down the creek.  I'm so glad I did this, I was beginning to question my ability, training, fitness...etc.  Great learning experience and I now know I won't die either...lol.  It was my first OW swim, a lot harder than my training in the pool.  Breathing heavy, had to stop a few times and waves assisted in my drinking far more brackish water than I cared to.  The worst part was my sighting.  My husband, watching from the kayak, said I was all over the place.  He drew me a map after we got home and I added at least another 200-300 yards.  He just told me, "If I swam all over like that, I wouldn't go!"  Oh dear, he thinks he's funny!  I can't get mad, that sweet guy just followed me in a kayak & jeep for 2+ hours...lol. 
 
Help!  Any suggestions? 
2011-05-08 10:33 PM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

@ Karla- Way to go! 6th place with the backstroke is pretty impressive. I can only imagine what you will do once you get more comfortable with OWS and can freestyle.

@Joy- The first OWS both in training and when it comes to your first race is pretty intimidating. Don't worry if you felt like your performance wasn't that great. It just takes a little getting used to. My first OWS race (Olympic) I finished right near the back because I was struggling to stay calm and was all over the place on my sighting. The next month or two I spent all my swim training time in the lake and really worked on getting comfortable with my stroke and sighting. My next race I was second out of the water in my age group and knocked almost 8 minutes off my previous Olympic distance swim time. I didn't get any stronger as my pool times were exactly the same almost. The big thing was just spending the time in open water and getting comfortable!

How are you sighting currently? Some things that helped me are picking a target in the distance that is more prominent than maybe a small buoy. Before I start swimming I will pick a large tree or house or something to align myself with as I swim. I also like to gauge distance to the side as well so as I look to my side to breathe I can catch a glimpse of shore or some other prominent feature and help stay on track. A common mistake I was making at first was to lift my whole face out of the water and look around and get a breath all at the same time. Meanwhile my legs have sunk and I have to work super hard again and probably get all off course and do the exact same thing again. It was a mess! Now I will just grab a quick glimpse with only my eyes out of the water and then breathe to the side. Its hard to describe in text but practice not breathing at all on your sight if that is something you are doing now. Just a quick peek and then try to visualize in your mind what you saw. I think I may tend to sight more often now but my sighting is very quick peeks and no breath



Edited by MattCan 2011-05-08 10:34 PM
2011-05-09 1:54 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - Open
jsiegs - 2011-04-27 11:52 AM

OK - This is my thrid try at a response...dang computer is on the fritz.

Q1 - can you try setting it for Z1/2/3 then just remembering your LT HR?  Z4 will be just below or at LT and Z5 above.

Q2 - You certainly can.  Some people even prefer it.  It's all about using that HR data to know what's going on with your body and "calibrating" your RPE (rate of perceived exertion).  Try it out on a training run - aim for your workout target without looking at HR then go back afterwards to see how close you were.  HR can be off for a number of reasons - fatigue, dehydration, hot/cold, so knowing that correlation to RPE is very imported regardless of whether you race with HR or not.

Q3 - It's well established at intervals and hard efforts lead to big gains with less time.  A good training plan will balance hard and easy efforts, especially on the run.  Swim and bike are relatively low impact and hard intervals are pretty safe, even for new athletes or with reduced volume.  Running is a different beast however.  Have you heard the mantra "run lots, mostly easy sometimes fast" around here?  They are really words to live by.  Running too hard without being ready for it is a surefire way to get injured.  I did that, and while I didn't get injured, I was constantly nagged with soreness and teetering on that injured point.  If a workout the next day is compromised by a run that leaves you too sore, that is a very bad thing.  I have noticed with my own training that have a strong base of easy running (Z1/2) left me MUCH more prepared to add speed safely.

 

The running debate on slow/fast, how much and when is one that rages on.  That is MY opinion on the matter and one that has been successful for ME.  what have other people found?


Thanks, these are great answers! I am working on the "run lots, mostly easy sometimes fast" plan.
Sat 5/7 brick workout was a success- 30 miles avg 19.5 mph with a mix of intervals, then 2 mile run at 8:20/mile. I must have fueled right, because this is the first time I have run with sore glutes from the bike, yet feeling I had the energy!

Big question: I *think* I am training well for Olympic on 6/11 (Elkhart Lake, Wis.), and beginning to 'calibrate' HR to RPE. But I really have no idea yet what my RACE-specific effort strategy should be! For example, do I go steady and moderate in the swim at, say RPE 6, then steady and hard on bike at RPE 8? What does riding “hard enough” but saving “enough juice” for a good run look like?

About the swim: The lake is supposed to be around 68F. Brrr! I have a "farmer John" style wet suit - have you ever used arm warmers to supplement the sleeveless-style wetsuit?

You guys are great for the community. Thanks for coaching us all!
Glenn

2011-05-09 6:30 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Happy Monday, Everyone!

I'm a little stressed out this morning.  This week should be my last hard training week before my first race of the season.   I have a few long sessions that I don't know how i'm going to fit in.  A lot of stuff going on with the kids, and my husband won't be around much.  I'm going to do what I can do and try not to get too worked up about it.  I have to believe that this one week will not ruin all I've done.

Has anyone gotten a massage before a race?  I'm so tight and sore, I was thinking about getting one as soon as I could fit it in. It will be 6 days before my race.  Is that a bad idea?

Christy



2011-05-09 7:59 AM
in reply to: #3488656

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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
cbrookhart - 2011-05-09 6:30 AM

Happy Monday, Everyone!

I'm a little stressed out this morning.  This week should be my last hard training week before my first race of the season.   I have a few long sessions that I don't know how i'm going to fit in.  A lot of stuff going on with the kids, and my husband won't be around much.  I'm going to do what I can do and try not to get too worked up about it.  I have to believe that this one week will not ruin all I've done.

Has anyone gotten a massage before a race?  I'm so tight and sore, I was thinking about getting one as soon as I could fit it in. It will be 6 days before my race.  Is that a bad idea?

Christy



Christy-do what you can and don't worry about the rest.  Not sure what your plan calls for but if you are strapped for time I would focus on keeping good intensity but not as much volume.  Everything I read discusses keeping your body accustom to the intensity heading into the race but reducing volume to limit wear/fatigue.  You want to be fresh for a race but not "flat".

Massage sounds like a great idea to me-although I have never had one.  Some folks complain of some residual muscle soreness after a massage so 6 days out should be a good time frame.  I have ART (active release therapy) done on various body parts when I have injury and it is somewhat like a massage although with taking the specific muscle group through a series of movements while applying pressure.  Always feel better after a session.  I think anything that relaxes you and makes you feel more fresh heading into a race is helpful.

Randy
2011-05-09 8:51 AM
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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Happy Monday,

Only have a few minutes to post, so I will leave my full post-race report for later, but to say the least...I am even more addicted than I was before.

 

@Karla- Awesome job. We both had somewhat similar experiences (minus the sports bra problem Wink

),

 

On the topic of massage, I had a massage a few days before my race and it really helped me. I just got turned on to massages after a half-marathon I ran in February and was having a major problem with my hips/glutes. Some places will offer a sports massage, either a pre-event or post-event. I did a pre-event, focusing on stretching and light pressure. I am not one for deep-tissue as I would probably cry.

As far as training: Knocked out some strength training work yesterday, and did 2500m in the pool this morning. Have a run scheduled this afternoon/evening and I am really looking forward to. Other than that,  I am extremely focused for my event #2 in the Sprint series. I now know a baseline time, and plan on dropping at least 5-10 minutes off of my time by the end of the series. We will see how far I can go.

 

In other news, I am signing up for Ironman Augusta 70.3 (September 25, 2011). I think it sounds like a great course, and a few of my newfound Tri-friends suggested it would be a good first Iron-distance race.

2011-05-09 9:02 AM
in reply to: #3488158

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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training

Congradulations!!!!!

Way to go! Great job! 

You deserve to be proud, enjoy a few days off

2011-05-09 9:03 AM
in reply to: #3488656

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Subject: RE: jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training
Christy, are you doing the Disney Half Ironman????
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