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 2012-01-09 12:51 PM in reply to: #3979936 |
Elite  6387    |  Subject: RE: Tebow!Cuetoy - 2012-01-09 11:09 AM
I agree with you, the front office can’t do anything radical for next year even if they wanted to, otherwise they risk serious backlash from the fan base. Going into next year is Tebow’s job to loose; he just won’t have as long of a leash as most people think he should. I also agree that Quinn is not the answer at the backup position; you cannot bring a guy from the bench if something would happen that brings as many or more uncertainties to the table. They need a decent veteran that can step in if there is an injury, or if things don’t work out. Quinn is certainly a difficult guy to figure out; he has enough talent that I’m sure there is a team that is willing to give him one last chance. I have always wondered what if, had the dolphins selected him with 9th pick in the 2007 draft, after all it is not like they did any better with that horrendous choice of Ted Ginn Jr. I still can hear Cam Cameron saying “we have no only drafter Ted Ginn Jr. but his family as well” Ya, Quinn was the same as Tebow. Big strong, not the best arm, but could move. Big expectations. I was OK with getting him... you never know with those first year teams... was Quinn that bad, or was it the Browns? Sometimes those guys can come away with a chip on their shoulder and prove everyone wrong. He didn't cost us much so I figured why not... let's see... but narry a whimper out of the guy... and he WAS #2 coming into the season... skipped right over for #3. I guess it wasn't the Browns. |
| 2012-01-09 1:16 PM in reply to: #3979991 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Tebow! uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. |
| 2012-01-09 1:31 PM in reply to: #3980089 |
Extreme Veteran 1260 Miami | Subject: RE: Tebow! scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 2:16 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. The criticism that Lebeau is getting in the way he ran his defense I think is more of hindsight is 2020 situation than anything else. You have to make Tebow pass and take away the run, which is very sound strategy. Even after a good passing performance during regulation, if you play the odds, his running will hurt you more than his passing. You dare him to pass and if he does it like he did yesterday, you congratulate him and move on, but I like those odds regardless |
| 2012-01-09 1:41 PM in reply to: #3980127 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Tebow! Cuetoy - 2012-01-09 12:31 PM scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 2:16 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. The criticism that Lebeau is getting in the way he ran his defense I think is more of hindsight is 2020 situation than anything else. You have to make Tebow pass and take away the run, which is very sound strategy. Even after a good passing performance during regulation, if you play the odds, his running will hurt you more than his passing. You dare him to pass and if he does it like he did yesterday, you congratulate him and move on, but I like those odds regardless The #1 NFL pass defense allowed over 30 yards per completion. Really, they respect Tebow that much as a runner to allow that to happen? It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) |
| 2012-01-09 1:57 PM in reply to: #3906878 |
Elite 3091 Spokane, WA | Subject: RE: Tebow! Great game! I REALLY dislike the steelers, so I was loving it the whole time. I also dislike the Tebow haters, so it's fun to see some crow being eaten today. But just as I didn't give them much chance yesterday, I give them even less chance against the Patriots. I'd love to see another huge upset, we'll see. I hope his play will give the play-callers enough confidence to not run it up the gut on first down EVERY TIME. |
 2012-01-09 1:57 PM in reply to: #3906878 |
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| 2012-01-09 2:01 PM in reply to: #3980150 |
| Extreme Veteran 1260 Miami | Subject: RE: Tebow! rayd - 2012-01-09 2:41 PM Cuetoy - 2012-01-09 12:31 PM scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 2:16 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. The criticism that Lebeau is getting in the way he ran his defense I think is more of hindsight is 2020 situation than anything else. You have to make Tebow pass and take away the run, which is very sound strategy. Even after a good passing performance during regulation, if you play the odds, his running will hurt you more than his passing. You dare him to pass and if he does it like he did yesterday, you congratulate him and move on, but I like those odds regardless The #1 NFL pass defense allowed over 30 yards per completion. Really, they respect Tebow that much as a runner to allow that to happen? It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) I don’t think it was due to fear of the run, I think it was mostly out of confidence that they really liked their chances if Tebow was forced to throw. I also don’t know how their injuries may have influenced their game plan. That first down pass was an excellent call. During regulation they threw the ball on first down only 4 times, for no completions or yardage, so Pittsburg gamble on a run blitzed and they paid the price. |
| 2012-01-09 2:10 PM in reply to: #3980150 |
| Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Tebow! rayd - 2012-01-09 1:41 PM It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) I read that that was exactly the reason they passed on that play. They purposely ran a formation motioning a receiver they had already run many times not just that game but in previous weeks that they had only run out of before. They knew Pitt would have recognized the formation as a clear run formation and BOOM! they passed instead. Tebow hit Thomas right in stride and it was off to the races. A Cross-ing route, of course.  |
| 2012-01-09 2:14 PM in reply to: #3980180 |
| Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Tebow! zed707 - 2012-01-09 12:57 PM Great game! I REALLY dislike the steelers, so I was loving it the whole time. I also dislike the Tebow haters, so it's fun to see some crow being eaten today. But just as I didn't give them much chance yesterday, I give them even less chance against the Patriots. I'd love to see another huge upset, we'll see. I hope his play will give the play-callers enough confidence to not run it up the gut on first down EVERY TIME. And I'll say the same... I didn't give them any chance... not only because they don't match up on paper, but because they played terrible the last three games. They still don't match up against the Pats, already have been beat, and Brady in January in Foxbourough... please. The only thing different is they are coming off a great performance. We'll just have to watch the game because a LOT of people lost money on Denver this year. Sure has been a lot of fun to watch. |
| 2012-01-09 2:16 PM in reply to: #3980217 |
Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: Tebow! scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 12:10 PM rayd - 2012-01-09 1:41 PM It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) I read that that was exactly the reason they passed on that play. They purposely ran a formation motioning a receiver they had already run many times not just that game but in previous weeks that they had only run out of before. They knew Pitt would have recognized the formation as a clear run formation and BOOM! they passed instead. Tebow hit Thomas right in stride and it was off to the races. A Cross-ing route, of course. The play calling and design from Denver was incredibly good in this game. The play where they sent the TE on a drag and then broke him up the middle was a great call and set up the crossing route the rest of the game. |
| 2012-01-09 2:19 PM in reply to: #3980150 |
| Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: Tebow! rayd - 2012-01-09 11:41 AM Cuetoy - 2012-01-09 12:31 PM scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 2:16 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. The criticism that Lebeau is getting in the way he ran his defense I think is more of hindsight is 2020 situation than anything else. You have to make Tebow pass and take away the run, which is very sound strategy. Even after a good passing performance during regulation, if you play the odds, his running will hurt you more than his passing. You dare him to pass and if he does it like he did yesterday, you congratulate him and move on, but I like those odds regardless The #1 NFL pass defense allowed over 30 yards per completion. Really, they respect Tebow that much as a runner to allow that to happen? It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) It didn't help that they had to have 3 back up defensive linemen play pretty much the entire game due to injuries. That is going to get you no push up front and a big part of their defense is controlling the line with the front 7. Combine that with their leading tackler having to sit due to the elevation (talk about home field advantage), that's an awful lot for a defense to try to game plan around. |
| 2012-01-09 2:59 PM in reply to: #3906878 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Tebow! Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? |
| 2012-01-09 3:15 PM in reply to: #3980333 |
| Extreme Veteran 1260 Miami | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 3:59 PM Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? I agree with that list, i just keep going back and forward between Brees and Rodgers in regards to the number one spot, a sign that you can't go wrong with either of those guys. I would take Cam Newton any day of the week...
|
| 2012-01-09 3:18 PM in reply to: #3906878 |
| Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Tebow! Brees, Rodgers AND Brady are Tier One interchangeable, IMHO. |
| 2012-01-09 3:25 PM in reply to: #3980333 |
| Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 3:59 PM Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Roethlisberger Stafford Yates the field. I'd FAR rather have Newton than Tebow. Apparently, U. Fla doesn't feel this way  |
| 2012-01-09 3:26 PM in reply to: #3980333 |
| Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 3:59 PM Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? The kid has one year of play under his belt. Let's compare him to others with the same level of experience. No one (well no one should) be proclaiming that Tebow is ready to go head-to-head with any of the NFLs top QBs. But, ya know, he's doing a pretty decent job considering this is essentially his rookie year. I just have to laugh when I think about people like Matt Leinart who was proclaimed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Where is he today? Hurt and out for the season, again, for the 3rd time...yet Tebow.. He'll never be a NFL QB. Edited by TriRSquared 2012-01-09 3:27 PM |
| 2012-01-09 3:33 PM in reply to: #3980380 |
| Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 3:18 PM Brees, Rodgers AND Brady are Tier One interchangeable, IMHO.
I think it's a great idea for a different thread since it's a topic of conversations with some friends often. I usually say that outside of the the top 3 above. there are maybe only 2 o3 other QB's that can carry thier teams alone. [which to me means a poor defense so you are looking to outscore the other team.] |
| 2012-01-09 3:37 PM in reply to: #3906878 |
| Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Tebow! Comparing him to Brady may be unfair but comparing him to Leinart sure does't help your case. Newton, Yates, dalton, all have one year. Stafford not much more. Where do you put Timmy in that group? |
| 2012-01-09 3:41 PM in reply to: #3980333 |
| Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 1:59 PM Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? you're right. this should be another thread. |
| 2012-01-09 3:43 PM in reply to: #3980239 |
| Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Tebow! uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 1:19 PM rayd - 2012-01-09 11:41 AM Cuetoy - 2012-01-09 12:31 PM scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 2:16 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. The criticism that Lebeau is getting in the way he ran his defense I think is more of hindsight is 2020 situation than anything else. You have to make Tebow pass and take away the run, which is very sound strategy. Even after a good passing performance during regulation, if you play the odds, his running will hurt you more than his passing. You dare him to pass and if he does it like he did yesterday, you congratulate him and move on, but I like those odds regardless The #1 NFL pass defense allowed over 30 yards per completion. Really, they respect Tebow that much as a runner to allow that to happen? It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) It didn't help that they had to have 3 back up defensive linemen play pretty much the entire game due to injuries. That is going to get you no push up front and a big part of their defense is controlling the line with the front 7. Combine that with their leading tackler having to sit due to the elevation (talk about home field advantage), that's an awful lot for a defense to try to game plan around. it looks like Denver will be playing without at least 3-starters this Saturday. And I believe the game is in NE. It's all part of the game. |
| 2012-01-09 3:44 PM in reply to: #3980395 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Tebow! TriRSquared - 2012-01-09 1:26 PM the bear - 2012-01-09 3:59 PM Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? The kid has one year of play under his belt. Let's compare him to others with the same level of experience. No one (well no one should) be proclaiming that Tebow is ready to go head-to-head with any of the NFLs top QBs. But, ya know, he's doing a pretty decent job considering this is essentially his rookie year. I just have to laugh when I think about people like Matt Leinart who was proclaimed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Where is he today? Hurt and out for the season, again, for the 3rd time...yet Tebow.. He'll never be a NFL QB. A better example was Ryan Leaf. Prototypical pocket-passer, drafted #2 overall (behind Manning)... and failed miserably in the NFL. He had no work ethic and couldn't accept responsibility for his own actions. It just goes to show that the predictions, even from the NFL scouts, don't always pan out. Tebow might live to exceed expectations. He DOES have the work ethic and doesn't seem to take anything for granted. |
| 2012-01-09 3:54 PM in reply to: #3980422 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2012-01-09 4:10 PM in reply to: #3980422 |
| Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 4:37 PM Comparing him to Brady may be unfair but comparing him to Leinart sure does't help your case. Newton, Yates, dalton, all have one year. Stafford not much more. Where do you put Timmy in that group? By what measure? If I recall correctly Dalton and Yates have played a lot less this season than Tebow. And as a leader and someone who I would want kids to emulate I'll pick Tebow over Cam "the scam" Newton any day. But who knows. Let's let time tell. To say right now, that you know that he will or will not be a great QB is just silly...
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| 2012-01-09 5:55 PM in reply to: #3980333 |
| Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: Tebow! the bear - 2012-01-09 12:59 PM Maybe this should be another thread, but how would you rank Tebow among the starting QBs of this year's 12 playoff teams. (I'd be surprised to see him outside of anyone's bottom quartile) My off-the-cuff list Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Stafford Roethlisberger Ryan Flacco Dalton Smith Tebow Yates Who would you rather have at QB, Tebow or Cam Newton? Rodgers Brees Brady Roethlisberger Manning Stafford Ryan 2011 Smith Flacco Dalton Tebow Yates . . . . . Trained monkey Any other year Smith
I'll take RG3 over Newton or Tebow. |
| 2012-01-09 5:59 PM in reply to: #3980435 |
| Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: Tebow! rayd - 2012-01-09 1:43 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 1:19 PM rayd - 2012-01-09 11:41 AM Cuetoy - 2012-01-09 12:31 PM scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 2:16 PM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 12:37 PM I'll go a step further and say that the Denver coaching staff's stubbornness in not letting Tebow throw downfield during the last three games set up Pittsburgh to adopt a faulty defensive game plan and approach. Just as it appeared to us, it probably appeared to Dick Lebeau and the Pittsburgh defenders that Denver was once again going to stubbornly run and run and run come heck or high water and never even take shots downfield. Of course, that proved to be a deadly mistake. But I'm sure that influenced not only the defensive game plan but also the play of Pittsburgh's linebackers and safeties who mistakenly reacted to the run threat first just about every play. Now, I'm not saying that Denver's coaching staff was setting this up all along by how it played the last three games because obviously Denver could have easily missed the playoffs as a result. But I will give them credit for FINALLY allowing Tebow to take his shots. Obviously, Lebeau and the Pitt D are to be criticized for not making adjustments accordingly. scoobysdad - 2012-01-09 8:41 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-01-09 10:28 AM Yes, but that's the point. Teams would not be loading the box if not for Tebow's ability to gash them running. That opened up the passing game and Tebow beat them with the deep ball. People keep wanting to rate Tebow on "traditional" QB stats like completion percentage and QB rating. But he's not a traditional QB. He can beat teams in other ways. And his ability to run himself or option off to another RB forces teams to play defense differently. This is the dimension that those who want to judge him on things like completion percentage continually discount. And he has STILL posted a more than respectable cumulative QB rating. I would argue the mere presence of Tebow makes the running game more effective, which makes the passing game more effective, which allows the Denver D to rest on the sideline and play more effectively. That's a tremendous impact on a team by just ONE PLAYER. And isn't that what great players do... make their entire team better? That's "The Tebow Effect". Copyright scoobysdad 2012. mrbbrad - 2012-01-09 6:43 AM Still with the bashing?? The best defense in the league stepped right up in Tebow's face and dared him to beat them with his arm. So he did. Only 10 for 21, but 316 yards, 2 TD's and a rush TD. QB rating of 125. Did he throw some carp passes? Sure. Did he guide his team to yet another thrilling victory? Yup. The best defense in football wasn't in his face much. While Pittsburgh packed guys within 7 yards of the line, they got little to now pressure on Tebow most of the game. If you are going to bring the safeties up like that then you have to get pressure on the QB. It looked at times like they were so focused on the option that they were completely ignoring the fact that their corners were getting beat like they stole something. Yes I mostly agree. But if you are going to say that the offensive game plan held Tebow back late in the season, then you also have to acknowledge that the defensive game plan of the Steelers helped him succeed. Despite the fact that the Broncos were having little success running and the receivers were consistently beating the corners on routes, they never adjusted. Thats bad coaching. The criticism that Lebeau is getting in the way he ran his defense I think is more of hindsight is 2020 situation than anything else. You have to make Tebow pass and take away the run, which is very sound strategy. Even after a good passing performance during regulation, if you play the odds, his running will hurt you more than his passing. You dare him to pass and if he does it like he did yesterday, you congratulate him and move on, but I like those odds regardless The #1 NFL pass defense allowed over 30 yards per completion. Really, they respect Tebow that much as a runner to allow that to happen? It was intersting as I don't think Denver passed on a single first down up until OT. (I could be wrong as I am going on memory) It didn't help that they had to have 3 back up defensive linemen play pretty much the entire game due to injuries. That is going to get you no push up front and a big part of their defense is controlling the line with the front 7. Combine that with their leading tackler having to sit due to the elevation (talk about home field advantage), that's an awful lot for a defense to try to game plan around. it looks like Denver will be playing without at least 3-starters this Saturday. And I believe the game is in NE. It's all part of the game. It's definitely part of the game, but you can't ignore it when asking why Tebow was able to throw for 30+ yards per attempt. I read somewhere that the Steelers had 8 starters out in the second half. That's brutal by any standard. |
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